thanks for the info guys. thanks for the website guppy. stuff like that comes in handy cause i live so far away and can only come up a handful of weekends. i personally have never gotten skunked on keuka, but several times i have fished all day and only came away with 1 fish. i am bringing some guys who never fished for lake trout before and im really hoping we can get into them so they can see what a good day on keuka is like.