http://greatlakesecho.org/2010/02/05/fi ... -alewives/

Tim

I was wondering when the discussions where going to start on lake O . You CANNOT paint all lakes with the same brush. Ontario gets influx of alewives from the seaway, and has plenty of green water. The bait along Niagara and Orleans county is there all year. I would be interested to know from some of the older fishermen how the bait is holding up on the east end and north shore. I can attest that the lake has gotten warmer and the bait may be condensing in the cooler waters on the west end where I fish, therefore, giving me a false sense of security on the state of the lake. Maybe some others can chime in about the "state of the lake" in other ports.

Didn't the State of the lake meeting say that the population of alewives was up and the health of the alewives was getting better over the past couple of seasons?

If you read anouther post reguarding the three rod rule there are arguements that three rods would contribute to the decline of salmon. Now this says there is too many salmon for the food chain so which is better three rods or a reduction in stocking levels? IMHO give us three rods and keep stocking levels where they are

In 2008, the estimated number of alewives was 69% of the last 10 yrs average. In 2007, there was a good spike in the number of yoy alewives due to the mild winter & early spring. However in 08 & 09 the yoy numbers went back down. They live 6-7 yrs.

The biggest factor, IMO, reguarding future stocking numbers is the numbers that the DEC arrives at for natural reproduction. They've never had a really good database for that. There have been studies, based on scale sampling (& sponsored by the DEC & ESF), that over 1/2 of the Kings out there for a few years have been naturals. These studies also show there is great variation from one year to the next. This is why the fin-clipping trailer is so important.

Another factor to consider is that a couple years ago, stocking was greatly affected by the eye-up problem at the hatcheries.

Absolutely correct that Ontario & Huron are different ecosystems.

Tom B.
(LongLine)

Guys, unfortunately we will have to fight to protect Salmon populations in Lake Ontario for as long as we fish. Some of us have seen with our own eyes "inside" memos stating that it is a goal of Great Lakes fisheries managers to "reduce the dependency" of anglers on stocked fish. This is one of the reasons why we are seeing all the interest in natural reproduction of Salmon , as of late. It will be a convenient excuse to reduce stocking in the future, despite the fact that you cannot count on consecutive good hatches of wild fish in this system. Angler harassment, low water, temperature fluctuations are all unpredictable in the tribs. Most of the tribs have been forever altered with dams. Not to mention that predation by resident fish in downstream estuaries, and of course burgeoning bird populations, will take an extreme toll.
Any natural complement to the population should be looked at as a bonus, never a partial replacement. It is so tiresome to always have to defend the "preponderance of pacific salmon" (this was an actual statement used by a former coldwater fisheries chief) , when they are the single biggest reason the Great Lakes are GREAT again. Not only have they brought about a tremendous shot-in-the arm to the upstates stagnant economy, they are the reason that any rebound in yellow perch and walleye fishing has occurred. Alewife predation on the eggs and hatch of perch and walleye is well documented. Lakeshore water front is beautiful again. Many of us remember the decaying stench and the "pop" underfoot of all the dead alewives. It is poorly promoted that the pacific salmon, although a stocked "exotic", is truly a savior of the Great Lakes and has improved the quality of life in the Great Lakes after man altered it by building the seaway.
History books document that Lake Ontario was a top producer for its size, when the large commercial netting operations were here. Probably because it is downstream from the shallow/warm Lake Erie, it produced incredible amounts of cold water fish for the worlds consumption. As some of you have stated, the Lakes are all different, and cycle differently.
The stakeholders around the lake have grown weary of the "doom and gloom" forecasts, almost as if there are many "rooting" for it. Of course it is possible the Lake will change in the future requiring adjustments to be made. Before that becomes necessary, there are two dramatic things that will give it away and be indicators. These MUST happen several years in a row: average size of 3yr old mature salmon will be significantly smaller.(taking data only at hatchery can be misleading as "fatness" can be drastically affected by amount of time Salmon have to wait in warm water. This burns up fat stores rapidly) The second dead giveaway would be sky-rocketing catch rates. Plain and simple, if they are starving they will hit more readily. This did in fact happen in Michigan. Reports of hooking 50 in a day came from there. They adjusted their stocking numbers(which were much greater than ours per acre anyway), and the size rebounded and so did the alewives. No lasting damage. While the alewives were suppressed though, native species hatches were excellent. Everybody wins. The bottom line is, if we stress the alewives with solid Chinook populations, we will catch the heck out of 'em and tourism will increase. We need to curtail all these damaging press releases, especially when the fact is, the alewives will be out there longer than we will be here on earth. (As told to me by one respected fishery biologist) They are amazingly resilient. Now if Asian carp infest us, all bets are off.

Excellent post Vince! Very informative and very well written.

Thanks Paul. This issue is very important to me, even if I didn't own and operate a charter business. Even though I have never lived more than 8 miles from Lake Ontario, between the ages of 4 and 14, we traveled AWAY from the lake to fish. When we visited my gandparents cottage near Wautoma shoals, I would spend hour after hour fishing off the dock, even though everyone said it wasn't worth it. I was too young to understand that my baited hook had no chance to entice one of the very few gamefish that were present amongst the millions of twirling alewives. Swimming was even more dismal, as you would have to wade through a 100yds of dead alewives rotting in the summer sun.
Today, lucky people who live in that same Wautoma shoal area(like our friend Runnin' Rebel Jerry Felluca) can troll for trophy Salmon within sight of their homes, and cast from their breakwalls for big Brown trout. What a comeback!

A very simple check on bait conditions is to look at thr Terns [seagulls] flying at Lewiston over the Niagara River. A few years ago the biologists listed them as an endangered species. Now that the bait, mainly emerald shiners are back, the Terns are back. I think that all the natural reproduction in the streams of Lake Ontario results in good forage for the larger hatchery produced salmonids.

Dear Vince P.
Well stated and accurate!

Jet Boat Bill

I have patient who worked for the sanitation department in Buffalo. He stated because much of the pipes in the facility on the river is PVC, so they can't treat the sewage in the winter due to freezing condtions. The result is direct dumping into the river during the winter. If you had seen the overhead modis of Lake Erie before the freezing, you could theorize that most municipalities up-lake are doing the same by the turbidity of the water. Toronto and Hamilton are growing by leaps and bounds. Nutrient loading is not a problem going foward in Lake O. I wonder if the Canadians could put up an electric barrier in the Welland canal to prevent the asian carp from entering Lake O?

Vince – you have some very interesting points there.

I think there are some things that we as fishermen-stakeholders need to think about in the “off-season”:

1. The 2009 L.O. annual report states that from 2002 thru 2007, the weights of Kings from the boat surveys sequentially decreased. In 2008, they went up slightly. (Hopefully it is a start of a good trend) The report also shows both catch & harvest rates from the same 5 yr period (02-07) to be above that 1987-2001 period. In 2008, it’s lower than the previous 5 yrs.



2. Studies have shown there is indeed a positive correlation between license sales in the Lake Ontario counties and the number of fish stocked in Lake Ontario. More license sales equates to more fishing trips so indeed the more fish stocked, the better it is for the local economies and businesses with a financial stake in it.

3. Long term trends are now evident in the biomonitoring dataset for Lake Ontario. Unfortunately zooplankton levels have decreased by approximately 15% per year since the late 90’s and are now estimated at 1% of the level of 30 years ago. Alewives feed on zooplankton. Although Alewives do eat water fleas, their numbers are not enough to keep the flea population in check.

4. Alewife survival “success” depends a great deal upon nearshore water temperature for the 1st few months after they hatch. Long cold winters are very detrimental.

5. Not just the NYSDEC but also the GLFC, USGS, USF&WS, OMNR and every other organization involved with the Great Lakes have it in their objectives to restore native species to self-sustaining levels as a priority. They all list Lake Trout, Lake Sturgeon, Burbot, Northern Pike, Bass, Perch, Walleye & Eel. None of them have referred to, or specifically named a salmon.

I’m not gloom & doom as I definitely see some positives when I look at the lake and the data, but in thinking about these points, I can’t help wondering:

1. What do we accept as “significant” changes in the numbers? We have had 5 year trends. (Unfortunately more negative than positive trends.) I’m not aware of any published criteria. I can do stats as well as anyone in the DEC but statistical significance and “reality on the water” can be two different things.

2. Would it be a long term boost or a short term boost? I have no financial stake in this. I just want to be able to catch fish & see that my kids & their families do also.

3 & 4. Alewives can be stressed from both ends. From the lower end, there has been increasing stress every year. Can they withstand additional stress from the predator end? If we are wrong, should we error on the side of caution? I would think that if we’re low on the stocked numbers that alewife die-offs would be apparent & we could simply stock more the following year. But if we “overstock”, it’ll take years (as it has on Huron) for recovery. As resilient as they are, (more so than the alewife) the rainbow smelt population did not rebound as many thought it would.

5. We need the “powers that be” to name a salmon. Now that natural repro has been recognized, is the King now a “native species”?

Just food for thought – Go Colts!

Tom B.
(LongLine)


Ps. If Obama really wanted to create jobs he’d put people to work (as Hoover did after ‘29) by hiring them to fill in the sanitary canal with concrete then hire truckers to do the hauling. i.e make it a highway not a waterway.

Folks,

I wrote the article at the beginning of this thread and have since been following the discussion here, which has been pretty great.

Mike Connerton, a DEC biologist that co-authored this research and is quoted in the story, sent along some clarifications on a few points like catch rates that have come up here. Without going quite that far, he basically suggested that what I had written was alarmist and premature.

Connerton's responses are now included in the article. None of them refute their claim that “predation pressure on the Lake Ontario alewife population may be high enough to raise concerns about long-term stability of this predator–prey system,” a statement which appeared in he and Murry's original research report.

But his comments do put more emphasis on the "may" in that quote than my article originally did. His point is that there is a lot of uncertainty involved with the science and that more research needs to happen before any stocking changes happen based on this line of thinking. At this point I doubt I'm telling you anything you don't already know.

Jeff
jeffgillies@gmail.com

What I want to know is, who sets policy? I think it is apparent that we are fighting the agendas of all the mentioned governing bodies. Nice try, perhaps a new and challenging undertaking for these guys. Salmon are old news. Someone else got the atta-boys and recognition. What they don't want to acknowledge is PACIFIC SALMON MADE THEIR DREAMS POSSIBLE! Without bringing the alewife numbers down, native species would have no chance to be restored.
We have had to deal with the damage that occured when the seaway was built, letting alewives and lamprey in. Do the users get a say now? I asked a fishery biologist where the big out-cry was coming from to restore Eels. He wasn't sure, just that they were "mandated". Lets face the fact that the Lakes have been forever altered. Any plans for the future must include Salmon, even if they were the brainchild of long since retired fishery managers.
Some things that are never mentioned when stocking numbers come up:1) We know, especially since we have not hit target stocking numbers of Lake trout in several years, that Lamprey wounding/predation is up. Why haven't we stocked MORE Salmon to take pressure off the remaining Lake trout(sacred cow), and offset the population losses that lamprey predation has surely exacted on Salmon populations? 2) if fishermen are at all to be considered, and not just for their ever escalating dollars spent on licenses, why weren't more inexpensive fingerling Kings stocked to offset the shortfalls in Lake trout and more recently Brown trout target stocking numbers? 3) why isn't INCREASING the number of Salmon to be stocked ever a consideration even though we know there are more predators at stocking sites than ever before?
Of course there are changes happening in the low end of the food-web. We just don't know to what extent the alewife surplus was to begin with. Years ago no one wanted to eat the Salmon, not due to contaminents but due to the "fatty" composition. Now that we are closer to having it right, the fillets are a better color and in high demand at all the tournaments. In some of our opinions, the Salmon are even stronger fighters. Those of us that have fished Salmon around the Lake and other Great Lakes, recognize that the behavior of the Kings in Lake Ontario is not that of under-nourished fish. They often spread out, and don't have to be "glued" to the school of bait they happen upon. Distribution inshore and offshore of Salmon populations is well represented in both cases.
The sad truth is, if we agreed to any less Salmon stocked, we would lose them forever because the wishes of the anglers and stakeholders would not be taken into account. Keep your eyes on this. Our fishery is worth it.

Vince,
Thanks for all of your incite full input. As always your on top things and make sure "our" voices are heard!