Kingfisher06

Thanks Sean.

 

It is totally an  "under the table" process Ed which is another problem because unlike other foodstuff it isn't subject to any inspection or monitoring (e.g. sanitary conditions or processing etc.) . It is also interesting that the DEC publishes all sorts of warnings about consumption of fish from the NYS waters yet doesn't regulate in any way this trafficking.

 

I do have to qualify a statement I made earlier above: I mentioned that the perch were a public resource and that the money derived from the sale  them actually should belong to the public. I was trying to accentuate my point about them as a resource belonging to all of us not that the money should actually be turned over to the government. Believe it or not I share some similar anti governmental intervention feelings (e.g. the so-called SAFE Act etc.) that Kingfisher mentioned.  There are also situations where money and greed are involved that something has to be put in place to to correct emerging problems or abuses because the people benefiting are obviously not going to be the ones to do it (witness the current jailed legislators and their pensions).

Harvey would get inspected from time to time, it is not an under the table, unregulated situation. Name some instances of food poisoning from fried local perch. Good grief, you're reaching. Go have a tilapia burrito at Chipolte and call me in the morning...

Thanks Sean.

 

It is totally an  "under the table" process Ed which is another problem because unlike other foodstuff it isn't subject to any inspection or monitoring (e.g. sanitary conditions or processing etc.) . It is also interesting that the DEC publishes all sorts of warnings about consumption of fish from the NYS waters yet doesn't regulate in any way this trafficking.

 

I do have to qualify a statement I made earlier above: I mentioned that the perch were a public resource and that the money derived from the sale  them actually should belong to the public. I was trying to accentuate my point about them as a resource belonging to all of us not that the money should actually be turned over to the government. Believe it or not I share some similar anti governmental intervention feelings (e.g. the so-called SAFE Act etc.) that Kingfisher mentioned.  There are also situations wghere money and greed are involved that something has to be put in place to to correct emerging problems or abuses because the people benefiting are obviously not going to be the ones to do it (witness the current jailed legislators and their pensions).

You cannot regulate greed. If you give the state the chance though, they'll pick their winner and sway the market in their favor so the greed can go unchecked. The only thing that regulates greed is fear, fear of losing what you've hoarded and it's supply for more. For the right price the state can eliminate that fear. That's corruption and the essence of what I speak about. Don't appeal to the State, because eventually they will come to get your valued aspects of liberty too.

Errabbit it was by the pound as well.

 

I disagree Hookedup. I still keep all the perch I can for the freezer. I love having a nice stockpile of filets for visiting family etc. Priorities change, monetary situations change.  

 

Perch are worth the most per lb this year then I have ever seen. Didn't change my mind to keep the freezer as full as I can.

 

When you have a school teacher guiding a bunch of students in a direction you don't agree with, well it's important or more so to speak up. This is a representative of the state paid by tax dollars who is pushing a bull crap agenda and proselytizing his message with youngster's voices. It's pitiful.

Just wondering about the sale part I some what understand where Kingfisher06 is coming from ....

 

How does the selling work?

 

Do the buyer have rules to follow ?

I haven't sold a perch in nearly decade, but use to have good discussions with the buyer down in Chaumont, Harvey. I don't think Harvey still buys, but has been replaced in Chaumont. The selling is easy. The buyer sets the rules based upon his margins, the supply and what his wholesaler is demanding from what I can remember. I would bring him a pail of fish, usually 7-9" were one price and you'd get more for 9"+ fish. The fish were sold whole and he'd pack them in totes from what I can remember. He did have a descaler in the shop but I rarely saw it used. Most of what he sold was just as he bought it and then shipped to someone else for process and distribution. HIs wife, who was an artist with a filet knife, would filet a lot for local restaurant sale, but that was a small percentage I'm sure. Now the rules for the buyer, not sure, but it all seemed laissaz faire from my perspective. I'm sure the regs are similar to what restaurants must abide by, you know, storage temps, etc...    

Never underestimate the appeal of simple solutions.......never overestimate their efficacy.

Yes, the state is wonderful at simplifying matters, bravo. Safe act, common core, subsidies galore, Real simple. Or catch a perch, sell a perch, with the option of eating it yourself. Hmmm

I'm not scheming to create new laws, the new laws are the threat

There is no public service in providing fresh fish to restaurants sk8Man? you are scrapping the barrel. 

 

Each individual is a private enterprise when in business for them self, get a grip.

 

Bull crap, there are no tighter controls concerning limits for sport fisherman or charters, you are a bullcrap artist.

 

Let us all know when you have solidified science, peer reviewed reports that state hook and line selling of fish is the problem, otherwise stop blowing smoke up our butts. 

I see both sides still. Waiting for an answer... Whether my license is obtained legally to charter or Joe smoes licenses were obtained legally, why can't he sell them? I pay for bottles water? I pay for city water? I pay for natural gas? I'm trying to see both sides here. Honestly. As an outsider looking in, the decline in perch, isn't it possible for one moment, that zebras, quagas or even gobies can be to blame as well over the past fifty years? I just want documented facts... Not opinions.. Sorry. I just wanna see the picture as a whole..

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That's the point, there is no scientific evidence of perch declines due to hook and line angling. I dont have the cash or force to make these guys sit in front of a psychiatrist and cry out their symptoms that lead to these conclusions. What you say is likely, the environment is changing due to food webs being more dynamic, but I will also add, humans are more impatient and wish for instant success and find easy blame rather than hard work that takes lots of time.     

Here's the kicker. You want to turn perch into the equivalency of deer ownership. Why would you? Something you cannot sell, but own, but not really because you cannot sell them. Why not? Why can't you sell your deer? It's yours right?  No, apparently,it's still state owned in your freezer. So obviously, if you hit a deer with your car the state should own up and pay for the damages right? It's theirs right? Nope, the state is in cahoots with big insurance to extract money from your pocket as a hidden tax. Crony capitalism. You can be searched by DEC with zero probable cause if you look like a deer hunter. The NYSDEC can invade your privacy whenever you fart a wildgame aroma. Wake up.       

Damn, sorry bud I didn't realize your up in North Country, where perch are considered J9 rapalas..... We could of avoided all of this confusion. See down here in fairy tale land averaging 1lb perch on a better than average day Is not uncommon if your in the gold, but hey what the heck, I'm making it all up right? Oh yea, and only one mans limit, could you imagine if there were two of us, me and you?

You can't sell j-9 sized perch here try again, nobody would buy them...lake erie is an entirely different fishery. 

I guess I was addressing you then sorry about the mixup

 

I was referring to some of the commentary that sounds quite extreme given the nature of the topic (i.e. selling perch not some communist conspiracy or governmental takeover of your whole life) and a bit paranoid as well. We are talking about some school kids doing research and making some responsible comments and soliciting help with what they, their teacher, and I as well see as a problem. I fully expected that this topic would ruffle some feathers especially when there may be folks who are personally profiting from the sale of perch but hopefully it will stay in bounds of polite discussion rather than emotional rants.

The nature of the topic is outlawing a way of life for many people, that is your extreme premise. The IRS already owns you and me, lets not jest. That occurred in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. Your problem is emotional, not ecological. 

This is all just the silent beat down of a man's pride to make a living, a collective effort to rob jobs, crush quality of food in restaurants, and get the next generation to join your sorority. You are winning, no doubt. Keep on beating us up with emotional knee jerk laws with zero scientific backing. Hopefully some of those high school kids read this thread and get their first education. Their first stimulus to question bullcrap and have a filter for it.     

Hey Frogger, North Country life isn't a fairy tale. 

Wow King, your pretty dead set on your view point, I get that, and no one is going to change it, I also get that but let me be brutally honest your borderline though of crossing that gentle mans line of calling BS. Making up stories isn't in my wheelhouse so tread lightly.

You tread lightly with your pirate stories of 200 lb catches. Sk8man's logic of public resources remaining public resources while in one's possession is the side you are on. Get a grip. 

Perch perch perch.... how about the glamour fish carp and bullheads. all up and down the st. Lawrence in the spring they have bullhead dinners at the fire stations and other fundraisers

like chicken barbecues in other places. I remember as a child my grandfather used to go to Montezuma and take carp down to Binghamton and sell him to the Jewish people for kifelda .I haven't noticed an uproar about that. If I hadn't had Chaumont bay for help a few years ago I would have been picking cans or on assistance.If you actually think hook and line fishing is a detriment to the population I sympathize for you. I think that it's ludicrous to get more laws passed over fish or game..Almost need a lawyer on retainer now to keep up with all the laws

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This post is exactly what I'm talking about..this is an honest man, who's got pride enough to get cans before his state welfare check, I've been there, I've chosen pride too. Go ahead and rob us us of another avenue, but don't ever complain about nys taxes or entitlement or corruption again in your life if you wish to erase this avenue. 

200 lbs.of fillets in a day? Iwanto know where he was fishing. Lol

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They must exaggerate, they are speaking from emotion. One guy goes out, has a decade record of 200 lbs and then each and every guy who sells perch catches 200 lbs a day.  

  Oh my God... talk about being misguided...wow! I think some of the commentary above speaks for itself so I wont bother addressing it. By the way when I referred to selfish behavior I was referring to the folks who sell the perch not necessarily to you.

 

Misguided, (scoff). Why don't you address it? Address all of it as a matter of fact. I sell perch, you were addressing me. 

Thanks.

Good age to be involved in such issues.

Are there creel limits on panfish?

No not in the Golden Crescent of Jefferson County, no limit on panfish. 

Thanks.

Good age to be involved in such issues.

Are there creel limits on panfish?

No not in the Golden Crescent of Jefferson County, no limit on panfish. 

I have to respectfully disagree Kingfisher. The laws were written in a different time, a different environment and without anticipation of all possible consequence. As with many things, the system does not protect against potential abuse from self serving interests misaligned with the general good. Being legal and being correct are often two different things.

The general good is to keep fresh perch and bullheads in our local restaurants, not talapia. The general good is not to knee jerk on emotions and hurt people who are only up to good. 

I have to respectfully disagree Kingfisher. The laws were written in a different time, a different environment and without anticipation of all possible consequence. As with many things, the system does not protect against potential abuse from self serving interests misaligned with the general good. Being legal and being correct are often two different

There are no more netters, just the ones grandfathered in, which is just one or two permits for the Chaumont area. Show me some definitive scientific data that proves hook and line selling is hurting this stable "public resource" to such a significance that a new law is required and I'll concede. There is none. This is a emotional reaction by folks who hear of great catches on Chaumont through the internet, come here on a east wind, catch 8 keepers, drive by signs and advertisements from buyers and cry their eyes out. 

Well said, thought out and insightful Sk8man . Thank you!

I'll disagree. The idea that fish are public resources that are and can never be thought of or be in one's ownership once caught, is not only wrong, but a very scary notion. If I have several bags of frozen perch in my freezer that are stolen during the course of a burglary and that's all they take, can't I call the police to have someone arrested? Sk8man believes any profit from these public resources belongs to the public. Hey all you charter fisherman on here, no more profit, it all goes to the state, every dollar forked over by clientele according to Sk8man. Unless of course you agree to strict catch and release charters where folks can no longer bring home a meal. Wow, this guy is my worst nightmare. He is all of our worst nightmares, but that's unfair to speak on behalf of folks, maybe some charters believe this too, maybe some folks worship Trotsky other than Sk8man.

 

Yes, indoctrinated Sk8man. Appealing to the State to create more cumbersome laws to solve hurt feelings of the weak and impinge upon others traditional means of making money is the teachings of giving the state more power over the people, rather than letting a fair market situate itself naturally. These kids are in a teaching situation, they are vulnerable. It's a dangerous and un-American notion.

 

The only vexing issue I see is envy. These hook and line guys who make a buck are really good at what they do. They are locals who put their time in, have been figuring out the lake for ages through familial tradition and make an easy scapegoat for why the confident jerk can't fill his pal. They claim it's over fished and the sellers are depleting the fishery, therefor they can't catch. There is not one single ounce of scientific evidence from DEC surveys that this tradition is hurting perch populations in the eastern basin of Lake O.

 

Instead of jumping to the conclusion that selling perch will solve perceived problems, how about the teacher promote the children to survey fisherman about selling perch. Would perch fisherman stay home if they couldn't sell them? Would perch fisherman continue to fish at the same rate? How does selling perch affect their living?

 

I am not a selfish person. I am just scared of people like you Sk8man. You round up folks and gang up on individual liberty through the hammer of the State. You are relentless and will use the innocence of youth to promote an agenda that is just emotional and baseless.   

I thought it was an interesting dynamic to watch a small scale, rather uninhabited example of free market economics play out during the ice fishing season in Chaumont. You could see perch prices rise and fall in accordance to supply. You could see slot limits dictated by the buyer vary with demand and supply. I very much enjoyed selling my perch and taking that cash to the restaurant next door and buying a fresh basket of fried perch and some beers after a long day on the ice. Heck, on the some of the better days it'd pay for my gas, bait, dinner and put a few bucks in my pocket for the next trip. I enjoyed the competitive nature it instilled in folks; tight lips about hot spots, keeping their keyboards silent on the internet and overall sense of accomplishment when they succeeded over others. Most importantly, it was a real reason to protect the resource.There weren't many dead serious, everyday fisherman trying to make enough to pay the bills, but you knew who they were: Carpenters out of work for the winter, local agricultural folks, and old timers. Guys who'd rather sell perch, maintain a tradition, and are too humble to feel entitled to a NYS unemployment welfare check. It's a lack of free market principles, individual responsibility and its replacement with State sponsored crony capitalism that degrades our resources. Why not a lesson on one of the last little sweet vestiges of a free market system, rather than indoctrinating children into the problem?  

May we privatize our state government too ? Please!!

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I am not an anarchist, and do believe we need a good referee, and the best referee's are the ones nobody ever has to talk or complain about because they are doing there small, but very important job so well. I don't think we need an army of armchair biologists soaking up taxes, but rather private folks more actively engaged in management per their own agendas.

Don't ever expect the state to solve a problem. Expect the state to offer solutions to the problems it creates. Don't expect these solutions to solve anything because that is not the racket they're in; expect more problems and more clumsy ineffectual solutions. Want a clean, ethical, properly managed environment that suits your needs, then own it. Can't own then lease. Can't own or lease enough to solve your problem then team up privately. E.g., can't afford to fish the clean, ethical, properly maintained private stretch on the Salmon River, then relinquish state control of the entire river and provide competition in a free market to lower the price. Individual interest and responsibility solves problems.