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reelxite

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Posts posted by reelxite

  1. 18-5494-2.jpgasking $250 works in early regular rotation and counter rotation crusaders

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    Call or text Bob Songin
    585-733-5829
  2. The are many exciting new developments happening on the Lake from the tournament perspective and the Orleans County Open is one of those with some new twists.

     First we are implementing an AM division and eliminating the need for Observers so the following format will be followed.

    Pro Division:

    10 total Fish Box; 5 Salmon 5 Trout only 3 can be Lake Trout

    Am Division:

    6 total Fish Box; 3 Salmon 3 Trout

    There will also be some Scoring changes:

    All fish will be 10 points per fish and 1 point per pound except Steelhead they will be 20 points per fish:

    This change was implemented after feedback from participants as to the concern of targeting Lake trout in the event, as it is counter productive the USGS goal of restoration efforts of Lake trout In Lake Ontario. 

    Since the cost of an observer is typically $100/day the teams will be saving $200 off the cost of fishing the event.

    The new price to fish the event will be:

    $500 per Pro boat; Plus what ever side pools you want to participate in (Ex: Calcutta, brackets,) you need to fish the pro division in order to participate in the additional pools.

    $300 per Am boat

    Both events are 100% payback

     

    Looking forward to seeing you all at the event:

    The OCO Committee

    • Like 1
  3. The are many exciting new developments happening on the Lake from the tournament perspective and the Orleans County Open is one of those with some new twists.

     First we are implementing an AM division and eliminating the need for Observers so the following format will be followed.

    Pro Division:

    10 total Fish Box; 5 Salmon 5 Trout only 3 can be Lake Trout

    Am Division:

    6 total Fish Box; 3 Salmon 3 Trout

    There will also be some Scoring changes:

    All fish will be 10 points per fish and 1 point per pound except Steelhead they will be 20 points per fish:

    This change was implemented after feedback from participants as to the concern of targeting Lake trout in the event, as it is counter productive the USGS goal of restoration efforts of Lake trout In Lake Ontario. 

    Since the cost of an observer is typically $100/day the teams will be saving $200 off the cost of fishing the event.

    The new price to fish the event will be:

    $500 per Pro boat; Plus what ever side pools you want to participate in (Ex: Calcutta, brackets,) you need to fish the pro division in order to participate in the additional pools.

    $300 per Am boat

    Both events are 100% payback

     

    Looking forward to seeing you all at the event:

    The OCO Committee

     

    .


     

  4. 6 hours ago, King Davy said:

    But I know we can’t get this back to where everyone is happy until we get through this predator prey issue and have full salmon stocking again. That takes pressure off trout species, allowing pretty stellar fishing all year long. I am 100% in agreement that the fishery only becomes fabulous again if we have a full fledged king salmon program.

     

    On this Dave we agree and you and I have always agreed on this fact, when salmon fishing is good all season from April to September it takes pressure off of every other species. But as long as the west end late summer/fall fishery continues the recent trends we have seen over the past few years Steelhead will always come into play in the open lake fishery.

  5. 6 hours ago, Lucky13 said:

    Sandy, I'm hearing it is more like an ember heap of a run, hardly on fire, from a couple of guys who live on the creek.

     

    11 hours ago, Legacy said:

    Sandy has been lights out since the end of the salmon run...

     

    If anyone knows Sandy and what is happening there its Rob(Legacy) and I would definitely believe him if he says its lights out fishing there.

  6. 2 hours ago, Lucky13 said:

    And thanks, Bob, for spot burning the Genesee run, but with all this snow (we got quite a bit here in Rochester, and there is even more south) it will likely blow out soon, and while you may be hearing great things from Sandy, I'm hearing it is more like an ember heap of a run, hardly on fire, from a couple of guys who live on the creek.

     

    Is there a problem with sharing information about good fishing in the tribs, we do it ll the time on the lake, we like to have as many people as possible share in this great fishery.

     

     

    • Like 1
  7. 15 minutes ago, Charlie P said:

    Well if Bob doesn't want to loan his net for steelhead for Sandy why don't the folks that want to stock steelhead make their own or get TU to donate one? It's his net right? Is it his personal property or not?

     The pens are owned by the Oak Pen Rearing Group and all decisions as far as how they are used are made by consensus of the group, not me alone.

    • Thanks 1
  8. So my one comment for today, I talked to a fisherman today who fishes both lake and tribs. I also talked to a friend at the Oak. The Oak is very slow could be because the canal is now empty. But the Genny and Sandy are on fire with steelhead, for the past 3 weeks. There have been many fisherman having double digit days catching fish and the guys that really know what they are doing are occasionally doing better than that. Remember this is second hand, I do not fish the tribs, this time of the the year my focus is on whitetail hunting.

    So the question is how good does it have to be in the tribs? If the fishing is this good now why do we need the new reg? Is it because the DEC is worried that with all the salmon cuts the last few years, we will have to focus more on steelhead in the future to catch fish on the Lake?

    I know they keep tabs on this site and hope they are reading and seeing how big of a divide they are further driving between the trib stakeholders and the lake stakeholders, and I consider many of the DEC guys friends.

    • Like 1
  9. 13 minutes ago, King Davy said:

    Bob, so taking the pens away because of salmon stocking cuts takes away opportunity for others for a different species that wasn’t cut to where both lake and trib guys could benefit from hopefully getting fish to home in to a local river. What sense does that make?

    And I’m not blaming Rob or anyone else for the message. So here’s the question. Let’s say DEC continues cuts this next year maybe even deeper. Those pens staying dry docked or will they be put to use for some good for the entire fishery?

     Again I will restate it pen rearing steelhead has never been focused on the the lake fishery and has little effect on steelhead availability on the lake it has always been focused as a benefit for the tribs.

  10. Dave what you don't know is that the pen was not pulled for the new steelhead reg. It had nothing to with that it had to do with a cut in stocking in salmon in the pens at the Oak, so if that is what Rob told you it is absolutely wrong. You can verify this with Legard because we were very upset with the cuts to the pen project and him and I had a very long discussion about the whole subject.

     

    48 minutes ago, King Davy said:

    Next you are throwing the Younger guys under the bus for a decision to cut loose nearly 100,000 fish to feed the rats who were sitting in those trees right in front of the pens. So some experienced foresight from you and older long time veteran of this operation who was on site wouldn’t speak up and say... “hey boys maybe we should come back at dark” this isn’t a good idea.

     

    But again you dont know the facts I did and was over ruled by the rest of the committee. I throw no one under the bus!

     

    31 minutes ago, HB2 said:

    " We,have decided to keep all stocks at the hatchery for the full term and direct stock all until further notice . We appreciate the efforts of the volunteers but there has,been some confusion on the availability of the pens . 

     

    They have every right to do that.

     

    One last thing when TU did not give us financial support for the pen projects it was because they wanted us to support a cut in the steelhead harvest on the lake, whats that called "quid pro quo"

    • Like 2
  11. Dave, again you are wrong the pens not being use for steelhead in Sandy had nothing to do with the Reg. it was not even proposed at the time, get your facts correct, to bad you are really out of touch. Also it is not my decision alone to make any more with the pen project at the Oak it is being transitioned to the younger men that support it and it is done as a group which I am part of, again you are out of touch. So the fish being released at the time they were released was not my decision, and I guess it was our fault that the fish stayed in the river for 3 days, again you are out of touch. And I will give you a little know fact, we went to TU when we started the Pen project in 1998 and they gave us nothing, It was totally financially supported by lake interests, something again you dont know. If you are going to make statements get your facts right.

    • Like 1
  12. Dave, we have always asked for help and have always posted on this site and facebook on multiple pages, also making it general knowledge in the community buy posting notices at the local places of business when help was needed, (Ron B always knew what was going on) did not know we needed to send a special invitation to the trib anglers to get their attention, and if we did where would we sent it. Would like to think if they cared about the fishery they would attempt to find out when work needed to be done, the lake anglers do! Its not a secret when the work needs to be done the the lake anglers are always asking when the pens need to be put together when the fish are coming. The trib guys could have stepped up any time and taken over the steelhead portion of the project to show they cared but never did and never asked. they just let it go to the wayside and did not care to ask. It was not until the DEC made it a priority and came up with the funds to support it that something happen. And then it was lake a guy that helped facilitate the construction of the pens for free. As you can tell when it comes to the pen rearing you pushed the wrong button!

    • Like 7
  13. On 11/28/2019 at 9:37 PM, King Davy said:

    I can get the names of the guys for you. But yes we should have always been involved. Not disagreeing with you on that. I didn’t know that the Oak program had stopped penning steelhead a few years ago. I asked why and was told they weren’t as an important part of their fishing. I guess they are now since there is a lot of angst over this one reg.

     

    Sorry to say Dave this was not the reason we stopped raising steelhead in the Oak, I was still the coordinator when this happen, it happen for only one reason absolutely "NO" help from the trib anglers!!!!!

    From the beginning we always knew that penning steelhead would have little effect on our open water steehead fishery. We raised them for only the benefit of the tribs. I still have the original justification documents I gave to Bill Abraham for the projects. I will say at times we did get help from the trib anglers but it was always minimal, maybe they would show up one time and feel they did their due diligence for the project. It was always lake anglers supporting the tribs from that perspective. In past conversations with Ron B. he even stated that he did not believe that the pen project helped the steelhead stream fishery, and if denied I call "BS" right now. Remember with the help of Bill Abraham we together started the pen program and I have always been involved with the decision process of the program and will till I retire or die.

    • Like 3
  14. 20 minutes ago, King Davy said:

    Steelhead get caught in the lake and rivers over and over and survive. Any fish released and swims away doesn’t carry a guarantee it’s still alive a day... a week , or a month later. And I’m happy to show you close up shots of steelhead with their gums roughed up from multiple hookings.

    I’ve heard from Charter Boat capts as well as recreational anglers that they successfully release steelhead on the lake all the time. Maybe they are simply better at handling fish.

     

    I will agree that steelhead caught in the rivers can survive until they have been caught to many times, I see drop back fish all the time on the lake that I know have been caught in the streams I will agree with that. Also steelhead caught in cold water conditions on the the lake like April and May, have a chance though small because they are caught on long lines. But caught in July, Aug and Sept. when most of them have been caught on the lake they are doomed. There is no evidence that they survive if released, again it looks good when they swim away but I challenge anyone to prove to me they survive, a day, a week or a month. The mouths would not be just ruffed up there would be clear evidence with disfigured mouths and in my experience that does not occur.  Like is does with Salmon which have a much harder stronger mouth.

    • Like 1
  15. There is one thing that I can attest to no matter how you treat a steelhead when he is landed fishing the open lake while trolling, even if you use a process such as a resuscitation/revival tank no one can prove that fish survives absolutely no one. It may swim away but does he survive? I can say this, I have caught salmon that I know have been caught before due to wounds on their mouths, I assume that they have been caught as skippers and received the wounds when being released. In my 37 years of fishing on the lake I have never caught a steelhead that showed any indication of being caught and released. I have caught a few that had small hooks in them which at one time probably had egg sacks attached but that is it. So even if this reg. is adopted there is no way to identify if it works. As I said before it is a feel good reg. with no way to assess its impact.

    Lets look at a little bit more of history, there is a very important condition that should be adhered to when stocking fish at a site. The water temp at the site must not be more than 10 degrees different than the temp in the delivery truck. A number of years back while delivering steelhead and salmon to a site for the pen project that condition occurred. The fish where placed in the pens anyway because once the trucks leave the hatchery they cannot bring the fish back so they have to be stocked. All looked fine when the trucks left, but the next day the pen project coordinator for the site returned to find 10,000 dead steelhead and 50,000 salmon swimming happily. Let face it steelhead are far more fragile than salmon. With that information catching a steelhead 80 foot down in 45 degree water and bringing him up to 65 degree water a 20 degree change is fatal no matter if he swims away or not.

    This stocking issue has since been addressed and there are alternate options put in place to handle it.

    The issue here is with the continued reduction of salmon stocked on the lake over the past few years and another possible reduction in the 2020 stocking on the south shore fishing offshore may become more prevalent. That being said more steelhead will/could possibly show up in our catches as happen in the late 90's under the same scenario, I know we as professional and recreational anglers do not want to kill any more fish than we have to lowering the limit to 2 will force us to do exactly that. Since our total limit on silvers will remain 3 and we will need to try to complete our box, we will still be fishing possibly catching more steelhead putting them at risk and most likely their demise. Leaving the limit at 3 will actually put less fish at risk since once we catch our 3 for each person on the boat our fishing day is over.

     

    I do not have to go over the reasons why we will still be fishing in the same water and this will happen since it has been covered many times before.,

     

    • Like 1
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