bulletbob

I am just starting a hone and re ring job on a 1996 30 Johnson.. Engine runs but starts hard, stumbles at low speed, has a "lean sneeze' at idle and low speeds. Also,smokes like hell while idling.. Runs well above half throttle.. All indications of worn rings/low compression/leaks at crank seals.. Its been this way for a while, but got worse after the impeller melted down last year, engine overheated, blew head gasket and died... Replaced the head gasket, and the engine did start and run, but actually got somewhat worse than it had been.. It shows even compression at 90 PSI each cyl, but 90 PSI is low for this engine I believe,, I think good ones are more like 125-130... I did not see any big digs in the cyl walls when I had the engine open last year to replace the gasket, and am hoping a re ring /hone/ clean up/reseal will bring the compression up enough to make the engine run better.. I REALLY don't want to get into boring/new bearings/new pistons etc, because thats when I have to start thinking about just ditching the motor... .. So anyway here's my question.. Should I be at least mildly optimistic that there is 90 PSI -even on both cyls? ,that this could indicate this engine will respond well to new rings/seal/hone ?.. It would seem to me if there were major damage to the bores or block that this engine would not run at all and have actually much lower compression than it does.. i am going to do the re ring, bought the parts, and am committed to it, but thats about as far as I want to go.. I don't want to put $1000 in new pistons, block rebore etc... I have read horror stories where guys have put rings in and compression was not improved at all.. Don't see how that could be if it was done right, but I have seen many guys say just re ringing a 2 cycle outboard rarely helps.. Kind of scary.. other guys say that they put rings and seals in and had a like new engine... Right now I am just hoping for the best, and could use some encouraging words from someone thats been there on a 2 stroke rebuild... bob

Both still available..

Think about something you just wrote.. Its correct and very much in line with what I said ..In ANY fishery, the first sign of too much pressure is not a lack of numbers of fish typically.. Its a lack of BIG fish... Same thing time and time again throughout my lifetime I have seen it... Harder each year to get keepers, because as soon as they reach legal size they are taken... Thats all due to pressure... The Crappie minimum size is now 10 inches.. problem is, in a LOT of lakes there are no or very very few 10 inch Crappies left.. I know 2 lakes not too far from me that are loaded with Crappies... You can catch 100 on a good day.. however, you won't find even one over 7 inches. Biggest one I have caught personally in the last 5 or more years has been 9 inches.. I know some here will poo poo the idea, but in my opinion, panfish are over exploited in NY state these days.. Many of us really don't have a taste for greasy dark Alwewife stuffed trout from lakes, and prefer eating white mild panfish.. Theres a reason guys will tell you exactly where they caught that 15 lb Brown, what speed, how deep, lure type and pattern, water temp and time of day.. Yet ask where they caught that mess of Perch, Crappies, or these days even big Bluegills, and you'll get blank stares and icy silence.. Times have changed.... bob

Good points.. However, remember, there are a lot more people today than 25 years ago, and the fresh water fisheries today are under intense pressure.. Boats, electronics, information access, leisure time, all are light years ahead of just a few years ago... the fish are getting hit harder than ever with not many places they can retreat to.. I get it, people want to eat fish, however wild yellow perch, crappies etc from inland lakes are NOT the answer.. They just can't be replaced as fast as they are caught and eaten.. If we can fish out the oceans, [and for many species we HAVE], we can fish out lakes and rivers,, very easily... aquaculture is really the only way to feed the masses if they want fish, not commercial exploitation of very finite lakes.. They farm raise catfish, stripers, tilapia, shrimp, salmon, trout, geez, you would think plain old yellow perch would be a breeze... I don't have the answer to the dilemma, I'm not that bright, but commercial fishing for fresh water fish, is NOT the answer, unless its for something like the grass and bighead carb that are devastating the mid west and heading further east each day... All I know is this- there are a LOT of guys that would go to a small lake with only 50 big perch left, and go and catch all 50 If they had the ability to do so, and sleep like a baby that night and never give it another thought.. We are dealing with human nature here, and I believe what is written in God's Word- "There is none that is righteous, no not one". I wish we could let honor, civility, and respect for others dictate what we kill and eat, but thats not possible these days. There are too many that care only for themselves, and will take all they can get no matter what its is, and that includes natural resources, including fish and game.. I have seen it time and time and time again in my 69 years. bob

Agree on the 50 fish limit.. I think a limit of 15 or 20 tops is more than generous enough... Commercial fishing for them????... infuriating to say the least....

I like to fish as much as anyone, but really, tying a balloon to a perch, to track the school??.. I get it, heard of it being done, but does one REALLY need the fish that badly??.. I don't approach my fishing like that.. If I can catch a half dozen perch, maybe the same amount of nice size sunnies, and few bonus bass [that I throw back], thats more than enough meat, decent enough action, and I consider it a worthwhile day... Maybe its just me, but I don't need the fish that bad,,,, There's always another day.... bob

I don't mind tinkering at all.. Its what I do... i do understand what you guys are saying however. Right now, can't see swinging 3K + even though thats a good price for a 20 HP 4 stroke with controls.. Another really odd thing I have found is this- Its often cheaper to buy an entire boat/motor trailer than just the engine... i have seen a LOT of guys buy an entire rig and then sell or just give away the boat... I have seen some some pretty good deals at times, and usually when the motor is on the boat you can hear it run... I am keeping my eyes open at this time as I decide which way to go.. Another option is this- Buy cheap entire gasket set on ebay/amazon for REAL cheap, like 30 bucks... Buy rings same place. around $ 70-80 for both pistons.... Now at around $125 or less, I can Hone/ re ring/ reseal the engine real cheap and hope for the best.. I have had pretty decent luck with cheap ebay parts on all my cars/mowers/chain saws/ outboards etc.. Just last year i used a Chinese head gasket on this 30 HP, and it was fine, looked 100% OEM to me.. been using ebay wheel bearings/brakes/engine parts/starters/alternators for many years, and they have lasted as long as anything I even bought at NAPA/Autozone/Advance at about 1/3 to 1/2 the price... So I dunno, cheaping out big time and hoping for the best is another possibility.... anyway, its been an interesting discussion, and I'll post more about what I do if anyone cares to read it..... bob

I could go to a 20 no problem.. Boat is only a 14 root aluminum, although it is a "heavy" aluminum boat.. Remote steer with side console.. Only motors I can find are typically 30 HP long shaft with remote steer.. a 20 or 25 is better suited, but they are TOUGH to find in remote steer/electric start and when you do find a clean used one, sellers know they are pretty rare, and want a fortune.. A clean 50 or 70 2 stroke is cheaper than a clean 20 or 25 remote steer long shaft... Anyway, not sure what I am going to do.. I might just buy a 9.9 or 15 HP tiller, forget about the side console for now, until I can find a reasonably priced 25 remote somewhere,. Prices are just really crazy new . used parts, labor , everything.. I was at a boat dealer the other day looking for parts, $200 an hour for labor, but hey ONLY $179.95 an hour for friends and family!.. What a deal!.. Right there on a big sign.. This was in Sayre Pa... When I rebuilt my Grand Cherokee engine in Oct. - $150 to check the head, make sure it had no cracks $150 to plane the head.. $150 to press 6 new pistons onto the old connecting rods.. So $450 for what is NOT much labor if you know what these procedures entail.. This is about 1 1/2 hours labor at most. I had to resurface the valves, install new valve seals myself.. That would have been another $300-400 or so.. A factory rebuilt head was only $400.... Its just the way things are now, labor is even worse than parts.. Soon no one will be able to afford fixing anything, and will be forced to buy new... bob

Prices are nuts.. $250 to bore the block, pistons are about $175 each with rings, and thats without a gasket set which is a couple hundred bucks, unless I get chinese ones... Probably $800 in parts, if I do everything myself, not including plugs, solvents, gasket sealer, penetrating oil, expendables such as sandpaper, etc... No wonder guys are always looking for good used outboards... Might also go with a known good power head... Clean one on ebay with 120 psi each hole.. I can't tell you how many times I have been through this.. I lament each and every good running OB motor I ever sold for way too little money years ago.. Past 3 or 4 motors i have bought have crapped out in a few years of very easy use, and good care... Like I said, most guys know when its time to get out of a motor, and as they say - "there's an ass for every seat"... bob

I have done the decarb, cyl soak, "free the rings" deal.. Thats not the problem... At 90 PSI on both cyls, its just worn, I have known it for several years.. Plus I overheated it last year when the water pump failed and melted into a big rubber blob,, I blew the head gasket, replaced it and the pump, and it did run afterwards, but the "tiredness" was even more pronounced.. Its just time.. I really don't think it needs more than a hone, rings and new crank seals, as the bores looked pretty decent last year when I had the head off.. I have had several of these 2 cyl OMC 2 strokes, and from my experience, they want 120 PSI or more to run really well.. Once they get below 100 psi, they start hard, stall when cold, and sneeze like hell at low speed... Others may have had better experience, but I have owned 2 30's, as well as a 28SPL, and they stated getting balky as the compression dropped below a certain point... I would buy a clean used one, but guys are asking $1200-$1500 for 25 YO 25 or 30 HP OMC 2 strokes, and i have not had much luck with OB engines at that age.. I buy one for a grand or close, and a year or two later its pretty much at lifes end... Most guys sell OB engines when they start getting tired and unreliable.. Not much need to dump a good running dependable OB motor for most boaters.. Not going to trust another old motor, this time maybe I will simply try rebuilding it myself ..bob

I am not a 2 stroke/outboard guy all that much, but am a 69 YO retired ASE Master technician that made a life with internal combustion engines.. Just this past october I rebuilt the engine in my Grand Cherokee in frame, in the driveway, on my back, new pistons and all, so I have some "residual" ability left from my work years... I have a tired 1996 Johnson 30 HP 2 stroke.. 90 PSI each cyl... It should have more like 120 psi. It starts[hard], and still runs pretty strong at mid and full throttle, but idles poorly and sneezes like crazy at low/idle speed.. Sure signs of low compression.. No rod/piston noise that I can hear.. I am thinking that in this case a set of rings and a cyl honing as well as new crank seals should get the compression up to where this engine runs better.. I am just not in a position to spend $1500 or so on a 20 YO engine that might have 500 hours on it, and is almost s tired as mine.. I keep buying used engines, and after a year or two of light use, they always seems to go bad.. So I just want to try and rebuild what I already have,.. Its pretty clean looking, good lower unit, electric start remote steer etc.. Rings and gasket set as well as the factory manual, probably less than around 150-175... Just looking for any thoughts, insight, helpful advice. "tech support" from those that have done similar, or those that are serious outboard motor guys with more experience than I have.. any suggestions would be well appreciated... bob

price reduced-The 30 HP and 70 hp still for sale.. both run pretty well, and will start right up, but can use a freshen up as stated.. $300 for the merc, $200 for the Johnson.. Just the lower units on either motor are worth more than the asking price.. same with the power tilt system on the Merc.. both motors come with controls as well.. both motors are fairly clean cosmetically as well,, not perfect, but not beat up either...

still looking for 10 or 12 foot aluminum boat... something we can throw in a pickup bed, and use on small lakes either with oars or a 4 hp... bob

I never really considered perch a spooky fish really.. If they are around, typically they hit and aren't line shy.. I know everyone here uses small minnows, or small grub bodies etc, but personally, I have always caught them on plain old worms i dug out of the yard, caught at night after a rain, or simply picked off the driveway after a heavy rain.. I am NOT a perch specialist like some guys, and am just as happy catching rock bass, sunnies, or crappies... bob

meh... What did everyone do 50 years ago, before digital high tech fish finders, GPS, spot lock etc,etc, etc... They anchored up or drifted, depending on weather, and they caught plenty of fish...

The reason some guys don't like white perch is hey get stunted fast... they can get huge in some places. and are more of a game fish than a pan fish.. If they are a size where cleaning them is worth it, they are a great eating fish.. If they are really badly stunted, they are merely another bait species... They do MUCH better in brackish tidal rivers than they do in lakes.. lots of killies,silversides, grass shrimp in those places, and more predators that eat them such as Bluefish, Weakfish, Stripes, Fluke, not to mention things like pickerel and LMB as they move closer to fresh water in tidal rivers,creeks... They just don't seem to stunt and overpopulate the way they do in lakes... I thought the Muskies and Walleyes in Otisco would keep them from overpopulating, but I guess not// Alewives might be the preferred food source over the much spinier white perch...

Still looking for small cheap aluminum boat.... 12 foot or less.. I bought a nice 14 footer, but its too large and heavy for what I am going to need it for,, Would swap straight across for 10 or 12 footer, or still looking to buy one outright....

are people actually selling bluegills, perch,white perch??.. I didn't know that was even a thing in this day and age. Where would anyone even sell sunnies and 10 inch perch?

1- mid 90's evinrude 2 HP.. Runs like a champ, starts right up -very good shape-hardly any use.. Kept it in a boat as a backup- I have planed a 12 foot boat with it, NO problem, This is the model with tank on top... can start and run any time No issues.. $200 2- 1996 30 HP Johnson long shaft, electric start, remote steer... Runs very well at speed, great condition lower unit, new water pump, actually runs very strong while planing. used it all last summer.. however, its getting tired- has lean sneeze at idle speed, and although the compression is even, its like 90 PSI each cyl.. A good strong 30 HP should be closer to 120-130.. It needs rings .. just getting tired, kind of like its owner- we're both little tougher to start than a few years ago, and need a freshen up on the rings. No major scoring or anything on cyl walls, just age and use .. Can demonstrate here or in boat on the water when the weather gets warmer if interested... $250 3-1987 Merc 70 HP- Long shaft/power tilt-comes with binnacle mount controls--- starts up and runs quite well, but #2 cyl is lower in compression than 1 and 3, I think last time I check 1 and 3 were at 120 or so PSI and #2 was 90-95 psi ... Its been this way for many years, and was never an issue, but I can't sell it as a 100% good engine.. Runs fine, idles ok, power till works well, pretty nice cosmetically.. Can demonstrate here or on water when weather warms ... $350.. all prices firm, thanks.... Will trade for or toward[with cash] 12 foot aluminum boat-,or 9.9 HP tiller 2 stroke, -or 20-40 HP remote steer 2 stroke outboard motor - will consider any brand.... bob

OK, thats good information.. I am in the process of buying a 12 foot aluminum boat to haul in my pickup. and have a couple little 4 HP motors... i have never been to that area, but that swampy stuff looks like great LMB water Might be fun to give it a shot one day, even though I am not a LMB kind of guy really.... Truck is 4 whl drive, so unless its really horrible I should be ok... I'll have to check it out along with the marina this spring.... bob

I guess I didn't know there was a state launch at the south end of owasco.. Besides the marina, I was only aware of the launch at Emerson Park.. Where is the state launch?.... bob