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Posts posted by bulletbob
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Ok,,, my mistake.. Gobies and mussels have helped the fish populations cayuga lakewide and along the St Lawrence...... got it.....
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- Getting better?... where?... This post was originally about an entire species that has vanished from an immense watershed... It morphed into a general discussion about how great NY state fishing is.. I can't speak for every water in the state, but can for waters I have fished for 33 years now.. You are mentioning a pocket of life in a small section of a 40 mile long lake as fishing better than ever,,, I'l accept that... However, as stated, the fish populations are way down in most other areas of the lake compared to the pre mussel/goby invasion. The south and mid sections of Cayuga had tons of fishermen fishing for bass, pike, panfish as well as trout... They are gone mostly because there just aren't that many fish left to catch.. Yes, trout/salmon trolling is fine, and will be as long as the fish have plenty to eat.. They will be fine with alewives and gobies being plentiful.. No problem with stocked salmonids.. However, if you REALLY think the warm water fisheries in Cayuga are "better than ever" lake wide, we must be discussing 2 different lakes... The Gobies have severely impacted bass and all other nest raimembers of the sunfish family, as well as yellow perch, and probably and other fish that spawns in rocky, pebbly,broken areas. Try watching a video.. they are relentless nest raiders that no fish can keep out for very long....
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8 hours ago, Jomat said:
I think the state record bass was just caught in Cayuga again. There are lots of bass in Cayuga. I know guys that travel some distance to crush large panfish up on the north end in the weeds. If you’re fishing off a rock on the shore in Ithaca , then I could absolutely see why u catch less fish than 20 years ago. Water is clearer and the fish are deeper. Cayuga is def not devoid of life, its fishing better than I can ever remember.
Yes the Gobies are less of a problem in weedy/muddy areas, I agree.. however, the majority of Cayuga Lake is rocky bottom.. Go anywhere on the lake that has rock/pebble/broken bottom and try fishing anywhere near bottom, and you'll see what I mean.. I typically don;t fish the north end of the lake, and I hear the gobies aren't as bad there, but as far as the area from Long Point south to Ithaca the bottom is covered with them, and they have deeply impacted the numbers of other species...
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On 4/3/2024 at 2:21 PM, fredee T said:
We haven't had enough ice the last few years to create an issue with fishing pressure. And when we do have ice the weekend warriors do come out but they usually gather near a launch or end of the lake. it's the old sheep following the flock. In the summer the pressure is on the bass there are just a few guys fishing for walleyes. I here you though, I live on Conesus and the fishing isn't what it used to be. Last year the big thing I noticed was there was hardy any weeds. I don't know what the answer is but I don't think its pressure.
Unlike many here I am not into trolling the big lakes with downriggers/wire/lead/dipseys etc.. Never was that interesting to me.. I prefer to fish with light tackle, casting, jigging, bait fishing, for panfish, Walleyes, Bass at times, and the occasional Esox,Carp, or catfish although I don't target them.. In the 33 years I have lived in the FL region, I have seen a precipitous decline in all species in Cayuga and Seneca, in some parts of those lakes.. Not trout or salmon, they seem fine for some reason, but things like Pike, LMB, Crappies, Sunfish, Yellow Perch in some areas, Rock Bass,even Bullheads I have seen my catches drop by 90% or more... Some areas such as the south end of Cayuga near Ithaca, are now devoid of some of these species, where 25 years ago, it was honestly no big deal to catch 100 or more Bass and Panfish standing on the same rock in just a few hours.. Its never discussed here, no one cares as long as the trout trolling is intact, but something has happened big time,,, Areas that were absolutely teeming with life have nothing alive except for Mussels and gobies... I hope to try a little harder this season to prove myself wrong, but every time I try the story is the same... The fish are gone from the places they were year after year and decade after decade.... bob
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4 hours ago, dremarquis said:
that is WILD! - catching eel on artificial rather than bait!
That IS wild.. I have caught carp, suckers, catfish, bullheads with lures, but never an eel, even when i was catching them by the hundreds in NJ years ago....
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very short read
9 hours ago, rolmops said:The biggest problem with eating eel as a delicacy is that the glass eel is served a specialty dish where one portion often contains several hundred of these tiny fish. As usual the Japanese are behind this. They appear to completely disregard the survival of any species that has fins
correct... Interesting and very short read I found. Explains what eels are up against in the modern age. Price per pound of some native Japanese eels is almost the same as gold believe it or not, and in Japan there are those that pay it!...
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11 hours ago, jperch said:
Actually I recall those rascals have choppers, though small. I have a friend who is a great lakes fish biologist and I talked to him about the decline of the American Eel population. He said the nature of their life cycle makes it difficult to pin down. That is, to complete their long life cycle they most reach adulthood, migrate bake to the ocean, make their way to the Sargasso Sea, spawn, have their larvae drift back along the Gulf Stream, etc. So many things could go wrong. Over fishing probably has played a role, there may be other causes as well such as changes in ocean currents, temperatures, who knows.
I said toothless, and thats not really correct as you stated.... They have teeth, but they are the size of fine sandpaper.. The reason I doubt ocean temps have anything to do with it is eels are highly tolerant of all kinds of environmental problems that would decimate other species.. they are tough to kill, and used to thrive in toxic waterways full of chemicals, and can tolerate temps from icy canadian streams right down to 90+ degree ditches in south Florida.. They started to decline when huge numbers started being caught and eaten not only for export, but also as part of the "sushi culture" that started in the states in the early 90's, especially in urban areas... bob
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5 hours ago, fisherman777 said:
Caught this one 4 years ago in oswego harbor at night fishing for kings. Peeled drag off at first like it was a 20 pound chinook.
They have a small head, a quite small toothless mouth, yet they are caught on massive baits and huge hooks big enough to catch a 40 pound Striper.. Its amazing when you see it.. They are very aggressive feeders, tough as nails, and hard to kill, can live and thrive in water that almost nothing else can survive in, they fight hard, are good to eat, are extremely prolific when allowed to live long enough to spawn,, and were once the most common fish on the eastern seaboard, comprising over 60% of total biomass in some eastern rivers, yet we managed to catch and eat so many, they are becoming very rare in places where they once numbered in the millions.. All because people in some Asian countries love to eat them smoked and will pay big MONEY for the opportunity to do so.. These poor fish need a break, and if I were king there would be a moratorium on their harvest for a few years, so they could build the population back up closer to where it was historically.. These are NOT trout and salmon, that can be stocked and will do ok on a "put and take" basis.. they cannot be artificially propagated, its been tried for decades, and simply doesn't work, and they are disappearing throughout their entire range because people like to smoke them, and others like to use them for bait.. Seems to be a couple flimsy excuses for condemning a wonderfully adaptable and unique species to extinction. They need some serious protection for a few years....bob
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typical... Once, just once in this lifetime I'd love to see a NYS DEC electrofishing survey report stating that recruitment and survival has been at an all time peak high past few years, and the stream/river/lake/pond/bay/ocean is now teeming with [name your favorite species].. So now the NYS DEC recommends increasing the daily bag limit from 5 fish per day to 10,, and lowering the minimum size requirement from 18 inches to 12.... still waiting for that to happen..... bob
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11 hours ago, jperch said:
I live in Oswego and have snorkeled and SCUBA dived near shore often. I can tell you that American eels were very abundant up until a decade or two ago. When snorkeling, we played a game called "eel tickling". Basically you swam along the surface until you spotted an eel in the cracks of the rocks and would try to dive down and touch it before it bolted, you got a point if successful. Now the water is much clearer (mussels) and we rarely see eels. When I was a kid in the sixties we fished in the lake during the spring for bullheads, it was common to catch eels. I recall we tried to eat one. Once.
Might be the diet they eat in fresh water... They are extremely good to eat from salt water.. Very firm, not fishy at all, NO dark meat, very white.. I have noticed bottom feeders in FW are more likely to taste nasty and muddy, but salt water bottom feeders are typically sweet, mild and firm. The reason they are gone from Lake O, is because they got caught and eaten by the millions starting in the 90's when people in US cities and overseas started paying crazy money for them for sushi/sashimi... The worldwide eel eating craze started in the 90's and it did not take long to wipe them out, just a few years.. They were caught and eaten by the 10's of millions.... such a shame...
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9 hours ago, Sean Youngblood said:
While Striper fishing in Raritan Bay at least 10 years ago. It was at night fishing with chunk bait. My buddy caught one that had to be pushing 5 ft. long (never knew that got anywhere that big) My buddy wrestled that thing in the back of the boat for about 20 min. trying to get his gear back. I was just happy it was on his line and not mine.
a 3 foot american eel is a really big one.. 4 foot is an absolute giant, and rare at that size... Your friend possibly caught an American Conger... They look identical to their smaller cousins, but get a lot bigger, like 5 feet +, and as big around as a grapefruit. and they pull extremely hard... Congers don't go into fresh water like american eels.. In NJ, no one including charter/party boat captains calls a Conger by its name.. they are exclusively called "silver eels", and they are a pain sometimes on certain bottom structure.. In NJ/NY/LI the term "Conger eel" is used for a REALLY nasty ugly demon looking fish called an Ocean Pout.
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I'll say this.. they are REAL good to eat!!!.... They also fight like crazy.. Tie themselves in slimy sticky knots while tyring to unhook them, super strong, hard to handle, and I recall my father used to cut them into chunks and flour and fry them, and those chunks would move around in the damn frying pan, and freak me out!... sadly, the tidal/estuarine waters that were absolutely loaded with eels from Maine to Florida have been wiped clean of the hundreds of millions of them [maybe even billions] that once lived there.. All because people in Asia [mostly] like to eat them in various sushi preparations... Believe me, I wish I could relate how many of those things there used to be... It would be no big deal to catch 1000 in a week if i wanted to... Now they are endangered in the US,,, all in the name of sushi... bob
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1 hour ago, rolmops said:
As far as "fishable" goes you are right. As for eel traveling not far beyond salt water, you are wrong.
When eel enter the rivers and streams as tiny glass eel they will try to go as far upstream as they can. They will travel the St.Laurens but also get up the Hudson, from there to the Mohawk and with the help of the Eerie Canal they make it into the Finger Lakes, but on their inland travels they are too small and not fishable. They love ending up in small streams and head waters where they will stay for several years, sometimes even traveling over dry land to reach their goal. (An eel has no problem surviving outside water for up to 24 hours) Eel will spend time upstream until they feel like reproducing. That urge is not dependent on age as much as physical size. When they travel back to the ocean , they come in different sizes and at that point they usually are large enough to feed on larger bait although they prefer to scavenge. once back in the ocean, they travel to the gulf stream and from there on to south bound currents that take them to the Sargosso Sea In the Caribbean where to breed and die
If you reread my post, you will see I plainly state that some eels WILL indeed travel far inland.. however, I lived with eels in my backyard all my life.. You can say all you want that eels go as far upriver as they can, but i don't believe that to be true at all.. If they are in rocky, clear freestone areas in fresh water rivers, they don't eat much because you just don't catch many.. NJ, NY, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas all have long rivers that go from freestone rocky streams that slowly transition to salt water, the eels are caught almost exclusively in the lower tidal sections, not in the upper reaches... The have a LOT more to eat in salt and brackish water than they could ever get in a small trout stream.. They are good travelers, but I know what I know having lived many decades in waters that were loaded with eels.. They are 100 times more common in coastal /tidal sections of any waterway they inhabit than they are in the free flowing fresh water sections.... Try fishing for them in the SLR, see how you make out, then try the Hudson around Manhattan up to around Bear Mountain....
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I doubt there are "fishable " numbers of eels anywhere upstate west of the Hudson river drainage.. They would have to through the St Lawrence to get into the FL region,, and there isn't much reason for them to come this far.. They are present in Cayuga, probably seneca as well, but you don't really hear of them being caught in any numbers this far from the salt line,, for every one caught in upstate waters, there are probably 500 caught in the tidal section of the hudson river.., Even in coastal areas, the eels typically have no need to venture far upriver.. Ask the guys that fish the Delaware watershed for trout how many eels they catch,, not many at all, although the delaware is loaded with them, they tend to stay in transition zones and seem to prefer brackish water to all fresh water.. They can and will go far from the ocean, just not in big numbers. In NJ, the rivers were full of them, you could catch 100's in a day in salt and brackish areas.. As the water became fresher,, shallower and rockier as you moved further up away from the salt water line, eel numbers got much and much less, and it was always that way.. So if there is a place upstate with a lot of eels, i would be interested in hearing about it, especially because to get here, they would have to swim hundreds of more miles inland than they really need to. A big one was caught about 10 years back in the susquehanna in Owego by a guy fishing at night for catfish.. it was such a rare occurrence that it made the local paper.. If you want to catch eels, I would say the best place in upstate NY is the Hudson river, and the closer you get to the salt line, the more you'll catch,, Eel populations in the US have been decimated by overfishing,, mostly because people like to eat them thinly sliced as sushi/sashimi, and will pay insane prices for the right to do so. I used to catch them by the hundreds in the salt rivers back in NJ
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10 hours ago, spoonfed-1 said:
White lithium grease is petroleum base. Not recommended for rubber or plastic as it will cause premature break down.
Thats the story, agreed, but in practice, its a lot of nonsense.. Been using it for 5 decades on rubber/plastic rollers.. never an issue.. Its lithium grease, not gasoline or diesel fuel... I find it all the time in mechanical assemblies with rubber,plastic and nylon parts, and after decades of contact, no break down...
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13 hours ago, stinger said:
Try the spray white lithium grease. It should last longer.
agreed, thats what I would do.. Silicone works, as you saw first hand, and if it holds up long enough thats great.. It never did for me, i was always reapplying it, but that was years ago, and your stuff might be a lot better. If not, get some spray white grease, apply it to the roller axles once a year or so, and it will work great.. I have been using it for decades on cheap rubber keel rollers, and it never hurt them..
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If its anything like most spray silicone, it won't last... Silicone is great short term, very slick, but just does not hang in there very long... One or two launches and its gone, unless the stuff you used is different in some way.. easy way to make it work for you is to just keep it in the tow vehicle, close at hand, and every other trip or so, give the rollers a quick shot after the boat is launched...
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I have found very clean powerhead, and purchased it on ebay.. 120 psi each cyl, has carb, flywheel, stator under flywheel all intact.$350 shipped My block is certainly able to be bored, damage not that severe.. I found a shop in auburn that would bore it for $120 which is half what I was quoted elsewhere.. So with the bore, new pistons and rings the cost would be similar to the used powerhead..... however, now I have a ton of spare parts including carb, flywheel stator, timing parts, linkage etc.. guy has close to 5,000 ebay sales and great feedback in selling used marine parts, so I am hopeful... we'll see how this works out... I really want a new 20 hp 4 stroke, but they are bordering 4K with tax and installation, and its just not in the cards financially... I'll post when its running.... [I HOPE!]
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So anyway,, i said if my "gut" was wrong I would man up, and admit I was a moron.. Yes, I am a moron.. On the well lit bench it is painfully evident that this motor is pretty much beyond a re ring, reseal.. First off, crank seals were perfect and were a not factor in the poor running as I assumed... Bone dry on the outside of both seals ... Bores looked pretty good initially.. Then under good light, with pistons out,, ugh... NOT good is all I'll say.. Pistons both wasted as well.. So now i am stuck with a brand new set of OEM standard rings which I can't return, and a gasket set on the way I may never use.. block has to be bored, and needs new pistons of course.... sick about this, but its my own fault for jumping the gun, and buying parts on an assumption that as long as the motor was running, and had 90 PSI even that there could not be much damage,,, WRONG!!.... Not sure what I am going to do, but honing the bores and rings won't do it on this motor.. Too much piston wear including some aluminum transfer... whatever,,,, I'll post when I decide which way I am going to go,,,,,
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7 hours ago, Prof T said:
Bob,
Sometimes the reward of reviving and tired old "anything" is worth the adventure. Good luck with the project.
Yes, it is.. Just this past October, I rebuilt the engine in my 2000 jeep Grand cherokee.. Motor developed a bad slap, and after reading about a certain percentage of 4.0 engines from that era having defective pistons, I decide to do an in frame "rebuild" right in my driveway, laying on my back!... Replaced 6 pistons, honed the walls, which were in astounding shape, with the original crosshatch vibrant, replaced rod bearings, which were in mint condition, replaced rear main seal, timing chain and gears, spark plugs etc...
Had to have the head pressure checked- $150
Head resurfaced- $150
Pistons pressed onto rods- $150... So thats $450 for what is very little work actually.. it takes all of 20 minutes to put 6 pistons on rods with a press.. same with the "head work".. $300 to check and resurface a head????
And not even a valve job.. I removed the springs myself, lapped the valves, decarboned everything, and installed new stem seals myself... So it cost me over $1000 in parts and machine work to repair my own 6 cyl motor using the cheapest pistons I could find{Silvolite, a decent USA made piston], and buying many of the parts online to save a few bucks. It was worth it, as the jeep is a southern vehicle we bought about 4 years ago,and is pretty clean rust free shape.. Engine runs great with about 55 PSI oil pressure, and might outlive me. So yes I understand, I felt some serious pride, doing an in frame rebuild in the driveway, on my back much of the time, at 69 years old, that turned out very well... I guess though I am disappointed in prices of everything especially labor these days.. I mentioned $300 to pressure test and flatten a head.. To me thats outrageous.. A rebuilt head with new everything is $400.... I stopped at a marine dealer in sayre pa a few week ago.. labor rate $200 an hour.. i mean its getting insane.. It seems no one wants to work and make a good living, they want to become millionaires... Years ago when I was a tech this was the guideline-your weekly salary should be 1/3 of your labor output..
You should make 3 times in labor what you're paid.
1/3 for the house [profit]
1/3 to keep the lights on[operational cost]
1/3 for your salary and benefits... That seems to have gone the way of the dodo.... I guess I am just old and cantankerous, as I spend a lot of time these days shaking my head in disbelief....
anyway, this has been a good conversation, and I will post about how my repair job went.. just need a few nice days to get it done.. Powerhead is off, cyl head too,,ready for disassembly and cleanup..
If the compression doesn't improve much maybe the tighter seal around the crank will improve crankcase pressure enough to keep excess air out and preventing the lean sneeze, and low speed/idle issues... Just don't know if I really want to put the better part of $1000 in a close to 30 YO motor, thats only 30 HP anyway,,, Now I KNOW why there are guys out there buying every junk outboard they can find cheap.. The parts are becoming like gold... thanks to all for a nice conversation.... bob
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I was just complaining about prices, and a guy on the Johnson/Evinrude forum said make SURE that I don't use a ball hone or flex hone, ONLY a rigid hone as the other types will follow an out of round bore... I checked prices for that type cyl hone, and they are like $225, for something I'll never use again in my life... Just thought that was interesting.. he kind of made my point for me, while thinking I'm an idiot for not replacing both pistons/ bore job on block/ new reeds/new coils/new CDI/water pump etc, etc.etc.. anyway, I'll post again about this when we get a few more nice days, and I can get this motor finished. We'll see how it goes on this cheap ""rebuild""... bob
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3 hours ago, Prof T said:
Bob,
You sound proficient, and you are already this far into the teardown so why not finish? My 2 cents after years as an autoshop teacher is concentrate on your hone job> those walls get pretty glassy over time and need to be deglazed in a distinct cross hatched pattern in order for the new rings to seat. If you can get an oversized set so you are at the low end of the spec you stand a lot better chance of improving compression, along with fresh reeds.
90 lbs comp will run, but tough starting and poor low speed and cold running are almost a given.
Money is a sticking point.. The bores look good, and compression is even though somewhat low at 90... Problem is, its $250 for a tiny little 2 cyl to get bored, I checked at a machine shop, and the only pistons available are .030 over, plus rings.. Pistons $94 EACH,, rings $56 Each .. So with gaskets and peripherals, we are staring $600 + in the face. Keeping the original pistons that look fine, and the NOS- OMC rings I found and bought online, I am so far only into it around $100, with a gasket set I have coming.. I already have a hone here, so I am going to attempt, a VERY light hone, and hope the new rings bring the comp up another 15-20 PSI, and will keep my fingers crossed that my theory that a lot of the lean sneeze/cold start/idle/low speed issues are being caused by bad upper and lower crank seals, which are getting replaced.. If it runs good, all is good, if not, then I will have to reconsider if I really want to spend a lot of money on an engine thats fast approaching 30 years old, by a manufacturer thats out of business.. Yes, it IS an OMC engine, but each time I look at parts lists, I see the the term "obsolete", or the abbreviation NLA.. You can still get parts, but clean used stuff is getting outrageously priced, and clean used motors that run well are also getting nuts... Lots of guys asking $1500 for a clean 25-30 HP remote steer OB thats 30-40 years old... Thats half the price of a new 20 HP Suzuki 4 stroke with controls... At some point in the life of a machine, its time to cut bait, and make a decision... Right now, I am VERY wary of buying used, because there are many people out there that would sell a headache for top dollar, to be rid of it, and then sleep like a baby.. I can't tell you how many times even as a former ASE Master Tech I have been sold a "good running car", or "good running outboard", only to find serious problems the first time I used them in the field.. You can hide a multitude of sins with some chemicals, a quick timing adjustment, heavier oil mix, etc etc... Even us techs are not immune.. These days, I would rather buy something for peanuts that I am unsure of than a "good runner" for top money.. Been burned to many times... So anyway, I have decided to continue my halfass "rebuild" [ rings/hone/seals/cleanup, and see what that gets me... If it doesn't help enough, I might buy new next time... bob
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I am not so sure of that... I have a Mac Tools compression tester from my decades of working as an auto tech.. It always served me well, and is very well made.. I know the type of tester you are speaking of, but had never heard that was the only type to be used on a 2 stroke outboard...
if you go on Youtube you will see dozens upon dozens of Marine engine technicians using comp gauges with hoses similar to what I use.. I get where you are coming from, and will agree that it would be unwise to trust the readings of a Chinese comp gauge with a flimsy hose, and crap build quality.but my gauge was used professionally for many years, and is a good one. Regardless, this old 30 HP hasn't been right for years, and if the rings, and new crank seals don't help, it gets sold as a parts motor. and I think about a new 4 stroke.. Tired, really tired, of fiddlin fartin' around each and every year with these cantankerous old 2 strokes I own... they are all getting older and less reliable each year, and parts are getting harder to find and more insanely expensive every year as well..bob
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Its not a carb problem.. It has been cleaned, and did not help one bit.. from everything I have read, when these 30HP omc engines are right they should have closer to 130 psi compression..90 psi is just not enough. I did find out I was on the wrong page of the OMC manual.. The spec I saw was ring gap-.005 to .015... Thats for 9.9-15 motors,duh.....
the ring gap for 20-30 HP motors is .007 to .017. Thats closer to what I have, and maybe there is less bore wear than I thought.. At this point, I have no recourse except to tear the engine down completely, clean, hone, rering, reseal, and ask the Lord's blessing on my effort.. I;m almost 70, and this motor doesn't need to last another 20 year.. If I can get it to run better another 2 maybe 3 I'd be happy... anyway, when its done, I'll post back and tell how everything went.. thanks for the replies!...bob
Collapse of a once great Walleye fishery...
in Walleye
Posted
correct.. Look I'm not an expert, but I am not a sub moron either.. I realize along with most other members here that the gobies are being eaten by Bass, and that makes for BIG fat bass.. I also realize that Gobies are intense and relentless in their nest raids on ALL fish.. There are articles about how the Muskies in the SLR are being decimated by Gobies because they don't protect their nests.. Lots of videos out there of SMB trying hard to defend their nests against gobies but can't.. They chase one and 3 others fly in, grab some eggs and fly back out just as fast. and the bass simply can't keep it up... I talk to old time SLR anglers that say yes, the bass are bigger than ever, but there are a lot less of them than ever before as well, which has been my experience fishing the southern and mid sections of cayuga.. Spots where i could catch 100-150 mixed species in a half day[SMB, Rock Bass, big Bluegills, Pumpkinseeds, Perch, along with an occasional Bullhead, Pickerel, Pike,Sucker, Carp, LMB are now devoid of any and all life except for gobies.. Yes, you'll catch a fish here and there, but the numbers are down by 90% in rocky areas.. From what they tell me, the Gobies are not as much of an issue in weedy water with muck bottoms, such as the areas around the main channel at the north end of cayuga.. However, in MOST of Cayuga Lake I have noticed a drastic drop off in numbers of most fish except for Salmonids which as we know are stocked for the most part, and don't have to deal with nest raiders... anyway, this did get off topic, and I meant to **** about the lack of walleyes in the susquehanna , not the lack of fish in Cayuga and SLR.... In any case,thanks to all for a really well balanced discussion!