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King Davy

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Everything posted by King Davy

  1. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    That's the funny thing about the Internet...or maybe the Sad thing....guys like Tall Tails taking a shot at me...you don't even know me. Not now, nor have I ever been a member of TU...and I have many reasons for that....biggest being trying to get them to be involved in the LO tribs when we had LOSA. They have lots of resources and money to help this environment...not just inland. Anyway....I only speak from experience which is only worth (1) data point, and look at the collected data that has been available ...for 30 years. Some on here will chime in that the numbers are wrong etc. But Lake Ontario has been the biggest baddest top notch open water and trib fishery over any other of it's kind for those 30 years compared to all others. Consistant and most of it (consistant in it's excellence of fishing success) has been it's moniker. So the data that the DEC and Feds use to manage this thing must be good enough to continue it's excellence. Maybe not perfect...but adequate. Most of the posts on here have lots of Merritt simply because it's got people thinking about ...what's going on. That's a good thing because stakeholders are at the heart of it's future. Many offering ideas, insight, and relating their experience. Interesting thing is the full gamut...some are mostly catching wild fish, some only stocked fish....In the end it's good to put all these diverse experiences on the tabel....just to understand how unpredictable this environment is and then understand how hard it is to manage it. On the thoughts around taking eggs later. The hatchery won't take eggs until the river water is in that optimal temp. Some years that hasn't happened until after Columbus day. Nov? ....not too many healthy fish around in Nov. I would never want to risk waiting too long. Gill I respectively disagree. Clipping fish has been going on since Seth Green's fish culturing days. It in it's purest form and most of all affordable format is still a Globally accepted practice to try and understand year classes, stocking sites (pens etc) to measure returns, and in the latest case I think it's important to try and figure out what the impact is of wild salmon mixing in with the stocked numbers. This June during a womens fly fishing two day seminar, we guided two USGS biologists, Among a combination of rainbows, brown trout these young ladies, were catching Atlantic Salmon mostly 1.5 to 2 year olds (which are still only 8 to 12 inch fish), and there was a combination of clipped and wire tagged fish. The differece was DEC ADK hatchery fish, Tunison USGS fish, and "Wild Fish" obvisouly no clips no tags....I was interesting these two young scientists when upon catching a fish spent time deciphering origins, and conditions of each and every one. Their thurst for knowledge of "their babies" was eye opening. We have a bunch of young highly intelligent scientists working on this fishery. I'm all for getting them as much data as possible.
  2. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    Ohhh....Cheap shot Gill.... thought you were a science guy (I'm sure you were just kidding). They are capturing a handful of fish to experiment with. It's a specific device to capture and not harm those fish so they can truck them back to Cornell. The raceway is wide open for all the kings in the world to swim up to the gate. ....Let's focus on what happens this fall. No hiding spawning King Salmon...if they are there...or not. I'm always asking why...there are many very famous in land trib systems in the NE that for what ever reason are fishing WAY below their normal stature. Insect hatches were late, or didn't come at all. Plenty of water, but success rates bottoming out. Usually not (1) thing that changes an environment and in this case the success of finding and catching fish, but I'm always interested if there is a common dinominator that affects multiple situations like this. Just like open water fishing, you start to trend the conditions to the level of success. I said earlier, I've seen this poor fishing situation before in a crazy weather pattern and brutal cold winter. And that fall you could walk across the backs of the salmon in the rivers and not get your feet wet. WHERE THE HECK WERE THEY???? I happened to share a few cocktails with the crew of the RV Kaho a few weeks ago. They've been dragging the bototm for all kinds of bio mass studies.... they didn't have any mature salmon carcasses in their nets, plenty of deep water sculpin which continues to show a population growth rate. I won't get into their bait fish findings....they'll publish them this fall or winter. So who knows.....but the good news we are all going to find out in just a short time.
  3. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    I just want to clear one thing up. And it's a fact not an opinion. While many brown trout and steelhead are "naturally" hatched into the system every fall from the lake migrations, there has never been a survival rate for those species that would have a measurable impact on improving or sustaining the fishing. Simply because those species must "summer over" in their natel tribs and on the south shore there aren't many if any that can sustain those fish through a full summer in the YOY stage. In the case of wild steelhead many stay over a year in a river system The only factor Brown trout and Steelhead have on multiple returns to a river system and be available to lake trollers year after year besides annual stocking is anglers choosing not to harvest them. (Don't want to get into a debate on mortality of fish caught over and over). Bottom line a fish released at least has a chance to survive. Fish in coolers never swim again. Purely the anglers choice and your license gives you all the right in the world to make that choice. However, the King Salmon is the one species that has the opportunity to spawn, and it's off spring survive and return to the lake as they are hatched in the early spring of the year after eggs deposited the previous fall, and normally leave the tribs that same May June of hatching attempting to get to open water before river systems water temps become lethal....IN ALMOST every stream on both the North and South shore. I step around 1000's of newly hatched king salmon in all my steelhead haunts in March and April from tiny little trickles to big rivers. Not going to debate how many survive cause there is no way to know at the moment. BUT...Wild King Salmon have a much greater chance in our South shore systems to replenish the open water stocks then any other species of Salmonids. So I'll just pitch this as rational thought. In a down year, difficult year that we are having this year, the angling community can take notice of that, and while they may enjoy catching other species, one might not want to harvest their limit to truly not impact other species besides the one in trouble...(if that's the case) The ball's in our court now...not the DEC. Yeah if there was a lost year class they'll know in a very short time and they'll study it and it will be debated....and all of that, but we all can have an impact NOW...on a changing and possible difficult situation, until we know for sure what's going on....to keep other species from also being impacted just because the targets changed for what might be an anomaly here in 2014 before all the facts are known.
  4. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    To Bandrus...I think you could expect an impact on the brown trout and Steelhead numbers in the river returns....and it's not just all on the Charter fleet. Many rec's will probably keep more of those fish as well if they intend to fill their coolers with fish. Fish creel census for the first part of the boat season showed again steller salmon fish catching numbers, and next highest were steelhead. Now with more anglers targeting fish off shore ....even targeting salmon steelhead by-catch will go through the roof. In fact I just looked at the chart. the Avg King Salmon per boat April 15 to June 30 was 1.3 per boat...last year 1.5. The Steelhead number actually was WAY up from last year from 0.5 avg to almost 1.5. So the open water fishing fleet has been catching a ton of steelhead, and now probably that number jumps even higher. So I'd say there will be an impact. The harvested numbers for the big three April 15 to June 30 - 11,200 Kings, 11,110 Browns, and 7,500 steelhead. BTW the king harvest was only topped by 2012 when over 12K were harvested in the same time frame....all the way back to 1985 through 2013 Avg.
  5. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    One other thing....If you have staging fish who intend to run a river....especially in the staging areas under 100 foot of water, and they stopped being able to retain food for nourishment because their stomach's have collapsed (looks like a deflated baloon)...while they don't lose their instinct to strike at a bait fish, or in the case of sportfishing lures and baits, they aren't very bite friendly. So as these fish mature and if for what ever reason they are maturing faster this year possibly do to conditions....it's also a possible factor that you have a lot of fish not actively feeding. I've cleaned salmon with deflated stomachs in July, some years when the salmon fishing was tough and fish seemed to mature faster. The other thing that's a head scratcher in some ways that if there was a serious imbalance of Predator to prey fish for King Salmon knowing what huge feeding machines they are for the three or four years they roam open water, why aren't we seeing more mid 30's to high 30's fish. In the mid 90's to early 2000's when we had less Salmon loaded, we had many years of big fish. Which proved that we didn't have the balance we could afford, and stocking was increased, however the days of high 30's and 40+ pounders started to vanish which you would expect. More Kings at the table. But maybe I can answer my own question, because there seems by all reports to be an abundance of 1's and 2's. However hard to believe young fish are way out competing their older more mature agressive brothers ans sisters Might just be a bad year class that rebounds with these younger fish. Don't discount the fact that spawn ready fish aren't all that bitey ....if we have an inordinant larger group of early mature fish....they'll give you fits in trying to catch them.
  6. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    Yup one would think....part of my point is that from 500 foot of water to 11 miles up a river...there are Kings.....or in other words spread out all over. They'll be no hiding them in the next 60 days, that's for sure. They'll either be home to spawn...or not.
  7. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    Yesterday I talked with a good friend who works at the Altmar Salmon River Hatchery. They are assisting USGS to live capture some Atlantic Salmon pairs up near the hatchery, that they took back to Tunison to have them spawn naturally, in hopes of putting that brood stock back into the river. They had to push the Kings out of the way of the traps that have already run to the LFZ near the hatchery. Not unusual to have King Salmon there in early Aug, but what was noticeable from my buddy's vantage point was how dark there were. Many times the early arrivers are still very bright. These fish looked like they had been in there awhile. Water temps truly haven't exceeded the high 60's this year in the river, (yesterday was 67 degress). I can only go by the pictures on this site, but seemed like I saw dark fish in July, and very dark fish for early Aug. Just wondering if the crazy conditions this year are maturing some of the Salmon faster, and they are staging very near shore (10 to 30 foot of water)...in warmer temps and not being fished to.
  8. King Davy

    Kings...what's up this year?

    I've seen several seasons like this over the years and they all followed a long cold winter, and a cooler then normal summer. Lots of changing currents which instead of moving the biomass in predicted directions, scatters it, moves bait around and the predators. I found in all my records....that if the thermocline stayed higher then the normal doldrums of summer, the fish were higher, matured faster, darkened up quicker, and I was catching big matures and more of them way up out of temp. Looking at my records in water as warm as 68 degrees consistantly. If this is happening you may be fishing under them. . Also as far as wild fish, in the past few years (Aug 7th last year for me) good size schools of mostly unclipped fish, have run the salmon river in early to mid August in water that was in the 70's. Makes me wonder if these wild fish tolerate warmer temps....in the river, they probably do in the open lake as well.
  9. King Davy

    Alaska Salmon Trip

    I fish the Kenai a lot as a DIY'er, but I can offer Mark Glassmaker. Fished with him not for Kings, but that's his speciality. He's in Soldotna, and has several guides and boats in his operation. They fish the Kenai, and the Kasilof. One thing to understand, they can shut down the Kenai and the Kasilof at a moments notice for King Salmon fishing if the counters from the Ocean are showing continued poor migration of fish into the system. His report last week, said the numbers were better then last year, and they get their second run right about now, and they are their bigger fish. They are getting an earlier run of Sockeyes , and plenty of them, and the trout fishing is off the hook right now mid river. Mark's number is 800-622-1177. Mark is about a two hour ride from Anchorage down the Sterling Highway, and then only about 45 min to an hour to Homer. Many rivers to fish for trout and salmon down the Seward, and Sterling highways. There are a lot of bears in and around the Russian ...if they stop to fish there. And since they see a lot of anglers they aren't afraid of humans very much which isn't a good thing, so tell your friend if they go be careful..
  10. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    Gambler I know you are a lakers guy....and for where ever we don't see eye to eye, I know you are a diverse angler. I'll never bad mouth lake trout, as they had saved my a$$ on many occasions with a Charter party. To lighten the mood....I once took out a group of old...and I mean guys in their late 70's early 80's. Four guys who only fished the Finger lakes pulling copper. None of these guys had ever caught a lake trout on a fishing rod. EVER! And while we caught some nice kings that day, they wanted to experience lakers on a fishing rod. So in I went to our favorite shoal. Dropped my flashers and peanuts...and couldn't keep four rods in the water, and we had many fish over 10 pounds. Most of the fish these guys caught on a daily basis were on avg. much smaller. Throughout this slugfest with LO lakers, all they discussed while reeling in these fish were what rigs they were going to use the next day pulling copper. When we got back to the dock...I said WELL??? how was that catching all these wonderful fish on fishing rods....to a man....Ahh...it was OK, but I'd rather pull them in by hand. It was Classic.! OK enough of my rants.....appreciate your patience....I assure you My interest lies with a healthy fishery for all our species. I love to fish for King Salmon in open water....hence the moniker I received back in the 80's when I put 22 kings over the side on day two of a tournament ..to leap from from 44th place to 1st .in keeping our 10 best....and won $5K. However now I like chasing some other fish in a different manner....Things change....and I'm OK with that. Tight Lines boyz.
  11. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    Back about 10 years ago now we the Lake Ontario Steelheaders group, and CRAA held a joint meeting and all day seminar of Stakeholders from both shores, and the perspective Fisheries management groups. DEC, and MNR. Both sides made many presentations, on projects, programs and scientific data driven findings and we asked questions from both sides. Nothing at that time had more juice to evaporate rumors and agenda's then this event. Now I realize this was a trib focused seminar, but we had difficulties understanding the directions our shores were headed in. It was one of the most valuable events I've ever attended. The state of the lake meetings ...lets be honest, there is much mistrust in the room. The tension for the stakehoders to the management officials can be cut with a chain saw. In the event of which I speak, we checked the egos and the special interest agendas at the front door, and got down to facts. Some were debated, some were not accepted by both parties but in the name of science and "politics" we spelled out as far as an agenda was on the table for all to see and understand. BTW Native species was then and always will be a huge topic for the north shore. So folks if you really want to get something done...get off the computer, and get a joint meeting of all parties involved. It can be done, and quite possibly welcomed by both managment and stakeholders IF....BIG IF, you check all the egos at the door and we act like concerned yet fair stakeholders, and LISTEN!!! ask intelligent questions without malice and mistrust and I think you'll get honest answers. Not saying you'll like them...but now the true playing field is clearly in front of you. And maybe after having written this....this has actually happened....if so share what you've learned.
  12. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    Gambler Canada has been trying to revitalize Native Species way longer then just now. And honestly if you had to depend on Canada for our sport fishery would you? I understand that all fish to the system is good, but I have to tell you I believe there's no turning this horse around. Unless they are going to stop the flows in Duffin's, Little Shelter Valley, The Ganny, Wilmont, etc....they can't stop it. Yes they can stop raising fish in a hatchery (I think it will be hard to win that one...IMHO) , but take a ride in Sept to Wilmont and Duffins....you won't get your feet wet walking across those rivers cause you'll be on the backs of thousands of sucessfuly spawning King salmon. Just like our Salmon river. As long as that treaty is in place we will always have king salmon even if every hatchery in the state fell over. I get it that it won't be what we have at the moment, but we won't be starting from scratch . I also get it that one must study and follow the goings on of their favorite fisheries, and all isn't good news all the time...... . Not trying to put you off Atlantic Salmon but truly there is a lot more REAL effort with stocking in our lake of Lake trout, and if you folllow the GLFC....you'll understand that Lake trout are a bigger target for them (since they now have a history of success in the upper lakes) . And we all know that lake trout live dozens of years and eat lots of bait fish. The chances of them impacting this fishery is far greater at the moment. YET....(and I say this becaue I'm a diverse angler) hook one of those 20 pound plus lake trout on a jigging rod, and I think you might have a different perspective. There is no denying that a 20 pound sport fish in the GL isn't a special fish. Things change, and evolve.....by all mans fight for what your interests are, but in reality there are others that have different interests. Hence the reason we should ALL try and get on the same page. I still believe this fishery can be enjoyed by a wide varity of interest if managed as a whole diverse fishery, not just from special interest, that includes native species study. Banding together of stakeholders interests for both the open waters of the lake and the tribs would have a much bigger impact of urging Environmental agencies to find the right balances for this diversity. That's the only point I'm trying to drive home.
  13. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    Vince, While I retired my Charter business in 1999 after 20 years to chase my very gifted Athlete daughter around the US playing on elite basketball and soccer teams (my choice and a very good one) , I spent from 1972 until now chasing fish on all the great lakes and rivers, and of course especially LO. Am the past president of what once was the Western Lake Ontario Charter Boat Assoc. and a board member of the NYS Sports Fishing Council. I was a staff writer on the original "Great Lakes Fisherman magazine, and for nine years the LO Editor for NY Sportman Magazine. AND I love lake caught King Salmon and also hope the program stays stable as it is today. Yesterday's Fishing boat census reports for the first part of this year continues to show the interest and success of fishing for all species in the lake and especially King Salmon. I'm not chest pounding boyz...just letting you know I've also been around....I've been involved in the politics, as well as the volunteer programs, as well as the professional business that operate on the lake and rivers. The Great Lakes Fishery Commission which has an important play in management of all the lakes is the main arm of native species "STUDY". Lake Trout and Atlantic Salmon studies have been going on folks since 1956 when this commisison was started mainly to work on the management of Sea Lampreys that invaded the lakes after the opening of the sea way. My personal view on fishery's today after all my experiences is #1 take care of the environment , which is essentially the food web and water quality for which all of these great games species require, and they will take care of you. My comments on Atlantic Salmon is to dispell the notion that there is some agenda to replace our current lineup of sport fish in LO for Lake Trout and Atlantic Salmon. And I realize just cause I say that many think I'm speaking out the side of my mouth. Understand that since 1956 the study of these species has been taking place. Both in the US and Canada. We are doing it differntly here then in Canada. Canada because it's lucky to have true natel environments is trying to put fry in a river that has capabilities for natural reproduction. For the record NYS tried at different times in it's king salmon fishery history to stock fry, and the results were not successful either. But we don't have the same water qualities. I've been fortunate to have spent time with some brilliant scientists. It's a shame that so many are suspicious of these folks who have no agenda other then to unlock the puzzles of science in trying to figure out if LO and the upper lakes has the capability to sustain native species. Most of these guys don't even fish. They are fish nerds if you will that are driven by what all scientists are driven by....finding answers to probelms that haven't been solved. Dr Johnson who leads the A Salmon effort for USGS was once one of the DEC's most gifted biologists who did the studies of our river systems back in the late 70's and declared back then that only a hatchery fishery could continue to sutain sport fishery's in NYS, and his findings were a driving factor of the building of the very Altmar hatchery where our salmon are raised today. He's not a guy with any agenda to undo what he helped start. While I also have good friends working on the Canada effort that also includes many Rec and volunteer groups like CRAA who are not Govt' funded....let me stick to NYS. Johnson is growing fish to larger sizes just like Roger Griel does at LSSU in Huron....and is trying to spawn returning adult to the salmon river which he has. This effort is not taking up NYS hatchery space from other species and has NO FUNDS for the LO program invested in it. It's pure scientific study. Three years ago for the first time in 150 years Johnson and his crew found 100's of naturally spawned wild Atlantic Salmon in the river. I don't know how anybody who loves sport fish and understands that this means we are making some strides in bettering the environment in which these fish live can't get behind this even with positive interest. LOTAC today has now planted nearly 40,000 tress for bank improvement that keeps spawning gravel in tack that our King Salmon are thriving in obviously, and the past three years the spring seining events have yeilded YOY Coho salmon for the first time ever. Is this going to sustain a sport fishery No. (although it has probably helped the King salmon fishing in both the open waters and rivers) But it proves that habitat involvement by Humans can make a difference. I know there is some hard feelings in Canada between sport fishing groups but a group of volunteers who have planted close to 100,000 trees and diverted rain water from storm drains to stop the silting of spawning gravel in the upper Credit have lowered the temps of this Metro Toronto river by a full 7 degrees in the summer and now have very successful wild repo of steelehad. Steelhead that you are all catching. They are seeing returns of spawning fish in the 10's of thousands....where once they were lucky to retun 3000 adult fish. Is there really anything wrong with trying to improve the habitat for which our very diverse population of sport fish require? After I stopped spending 150 days a season on the Lake, I started spending that same amount of time on the rivers. My eyes were opened wide to the connection of the entire fishery not just the lake or just the tribs. Can you imagine if we all got on the same page? If we all had interest in managing the entire fishery environment and not be split ...and has been for decades? Yeah, I'm just not a one species of fish type of guy. I love them all, they all have their place, and for that I'm interested in supporting them all....including the efforts on native species. Lastly I'm more then anything a realist. I might have another 20 years on this earth to enjoy this fishery. From what I've seen, I think I have a realistic view of two things. Since LO sits at the bototm of the chain of lakes, I believe we will always have alwifes, because all the fertil water runs down to us. Populations will flux, but they won't go away in my lifetime. And two, I highly doubt from what I've seen that we'll have a very large naturally sustainable A salmon fishery in NYS. We'd have to plant millions of trees, take out dozens of barriers, and shut down factories and farms all along the South shore waterways.....and that's not realistic. BUT having said that, those A salmon that I do catch, and they are fantastic fish (in a river) , will forever more have my interest to study them, and help where ever I can. I do wish in my lifetime Fishermen could see the big picture. Let's face it both lake and trib anglers are special interest groups. We fight hard for our fisheries. We should all be fighting hard for the entire fishery. One last thing....let's stop the sensless name calling. I'm as passionate as you are about these fish, my 40 plus years of volunterring, working in, going to Albany to fight for, and years spent writing about this...wasn't just done for my enjoyment. Let's start acting like adults, businessmen and women, and concerned stakeholders of this wonderful natural resource.
  14. Yeah...I get that a lot....(Ha Ha)
  15. Yeah not the case on that particular fish, You know me well enough that I wouldn't be talking about a foul hooked fish. Anyway nice group of fish. Keep at it.
  16. Scott, DEC I know had clipped VS non clipped fish last fall on their data collection from Spawning fish in Oct. . Dr Mike Cotterton I thought started the trailor in the spring of 2010 or 09. Not that it would be noticable so much in the lake fishery, but I've started to take notice that wild fish seem to be more tolerable of warmer water and make early runs on the Salmon. Aug fish I've caught have their adipose fins, and I personally don't see as many clipped fish till later in the fall. I'm always interested in fish behavior especially if there is a distinct difference in classes of origins of which, in this case if and how naturally spawned fish may act or be different then hatchery raised. A-Lure-A...no not talking about the Genny ...although I did catch a non clipped fish in there in Oct of 2012 on the swing up by the powerhouse that acted and fought like no other fly caught king salmon I have ever hooked.....jumping all over the place cartwheeling like a steelhead or Atlantic salmon. Hey Rick didn't mean to hijack your thread
  17. What appears to be interesting Rick from what I can tell all or most of those fish appear to be wild. I've been watching with interest lately at pics from fishing reports that folks get a bunch of Salmon and most or all seem to be either all wild or all stockers....wondering if they don't mix together well in their perspective wolf packs. What are you and the other Capt's experiencing in that regard? Usually a mixed bag? or a trend in one or the other when you get on a school of active fish. I don't spend a lot of time targeting kings in rivers , but lately my experience has been a solid run of fish appear to be one or the other, and personally haven't seen the wild and stocked fish all mingled together.
  18. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    For PA.....Linds and I fished a different section of a special little stream of the Catt watershed, all wild rainbows and browns. Lots of fish looking up, stellar day, wet wading, and some really nice fish...lots of little guys. Sulfers, and swinging a little wet fly. A blast on the spongy glass 3 wt.
  19. King Davy

    1000 islands

    Yeah PA that has been a good spoon for sure. I always pick up a few of those at the 1000 Islands Bait Store
  20. King Davy

    Jigging Report

    Nice to see some of the Old school tactics. You will catch some salmon this way...especially in Aug, when they start staging near river mouths....hang on when you stick Mr. Salmon...it will be a treat to fight it off the take.
  21. King Davy

    1000 islands

    FWIW Crum.... fished around Clayton last week. The shallow shoals were not fishing well for Bass...they have moved off to deeper drop offs. Have a guide friend who has done very well on the bass so far, but we concentrated on tossing hardware for Pike, and we did very well... and had a fish up around 15, 16 pounds. I hear the bass fishing and Walleyes and Pike have bene good out of Mudbay down around the Cape. Fox Grenidier, and Hards Scrabble had been fishing very well. I did well on just throwing a good old red and white daredevil....with the nose bent up for a wider swing on the fall when jigging the spoon back in.
  22. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    I'd like anybody to copy and paste my words that state I wish there were no King Salmon in the lake. In fact my first post was to ask if anybody has ever tried catching these fish including kings jigging. Next last I knew this is a free country, if I prefer to fish for other species instead of kings that is purely my choice. The question was what would you do if they were gone. I think I made it clear I'd fish for other species as I do today. Would I miss them out in the lake....sure. Would I miss them in a River...no way. They are not the same fish folks. All the things you love about them in the lake is not the way they fish unless fresh in from the lake in Aug or Sept. I think maybe what bothers me most about kings in a river is they are disrespected so much. I've fished Alaska for nearly 20 years....I know Alaskan kings very well. They aren't the same animals as we have in our lakes. Kings in Alaska are in serious trouble ...are regulated heavily. If you know anything about Alaska you'd realize no fish is more protected throughout the State and watersheds then the Rainbow trout. Most places they can't be harvested...because they draw anglers before, during, and after all the salmon runs. t Atlantic Salmon are a wonderful sport fish. For me as fresh water salmonids go, they are the fish I most enjoy fishing for. I could truly care less how you feel about that. But in toting MY favorite fish, I've never said we should replace King Salmon with millions of stocked atlantics. So get over yourselves. One last thing....No Salmon fishery in NA and Europe creates more capital then Atlantic Salmon.
  23. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    Baitrigger....we have a breakthrough we both have a special respect and enjoy the Delaware. So good for you fishing with your kids. I get the teenage thing, but they may come around as they get a little older. We have four girls all at one time were great little fishermen...all fished the boat and salmon, one was an exceptional fly angler, and then they turned back into Young women and it's just Linds and I. Gambler.....I no longer have much to offer on open water fishing...as I don't get to fish out there often. I did take a lady friend out in her little boat and show her how to catch fish this spring out of my old Port of Sandy.....and yes we caught our 40 fish, just don't think we need another report that somebody caught 40 cookie cutter browns and cohos. Yeah love Atlantic salmon...I did try and provide some perspective on what the A Salmon study is all about at the moment. Take or leave it...it's what's going on. It's factual, as far as what the "Scope" is from a scientific study perspective. The Scope is key....the effort at the moment is not gong to create a world class sport fishery. Someday....maybe maybe not. But trying to figure it out truly isn't ruining our open water fishery....so why not try. People showing up to troll for A salmon. I wouldn't think we'd ever see that. Those that know A Salmon, and have experience with them, world never want to target them from a trolling boat. I do follow your posts out of Sandy as I've fished that wonderful shoal just east of the port for many many years and caught boat loads of fish. I enjoy all fish, and why I travel to fish for so many species. Love my home fish, and have a special place n my heat for Steelhead and A salmon. Always have. If some of you ever have the experiences I've had with these fish and a two handed rod in big roaring rivers where before you can count to four , you are through a 100 foot of fly line and 100 yards of backing looking only skyward because this 20 pound dime bright beast is 8 feet in the air not once but EIGHT TIMES......you might still like your kings better, but maybe get from where I'm coming.
  24. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    Not sure Baitrigger....I'm pretty sure I may have a few years on you playing the trolling game. I started in 1972. So for sure the hunt on open water to where many variables such as wind and current reposition the food web, and thus the fish, is for sure a lot of fun and a challenge. From your statements you've either never fly fished...or haven't been very successful at it. Do you fly fish? If your from NJ ...hopefully you've tagged a few of your bass and Albies off the sound on a fly. I don't get the Major League.gig....Once you locate Salmon they aren't all that hard to catch. A fish that grows from six inches at stocking to on Avg. 16 to 20 pounds as a spawning adult in three short years...is mostly doing one thing "EATING". Are they active certain times of the day for sure.....but have you not actualy caught them just about any time from Sunup to say 2 PM....and then in the evening? I don't know but all this major league stuff still sounds like chest pounding. And this is the "OPEN Discussion Forum" if I'm not mistaken not the LO reports thread. And if you've ever slid past the lake reports there is tons of other threads that include WARM Water species ....how terrible is that?
  25. King Davy

    What if there were no Kings?

    My statement wasn't that fish haven't been moved around, but rather entirely replaced....just because of the Atlantic Salmon. If you work for MNR and state that moving fish from three hours away is much harder, then I won't challenge it. I happen to help float stock and bucket stock brown trout all over the state of NY and many times the fish are more then 3 hours from home, and we've never had an issue. Guys it's easy to check the stocking records on both shores from it's inception. Atlantics have been stocked by both countries for ever. People who've been in this game as long as I, know that the turning down of Coho and Chinook stocking from our Northern brothers started way before the ramp up of Atlantic Salmon stocking. I sat in meetings with reps from both MNR and NY 20 years ago listening to reasons for stocking cuts on these species from the North Shore. Through all the belly aching on the advent of trying to figure out the A salmon puzzle....I've yet to read a single post that an angler doesn't catch King salmon any more. and it has to be because of this program. The reports thread as the fish come back off their wayward travel offshore following the migration of the thermal bars are going to be like the neon lights of vegas...right through till you boys put your boats to bed. I know...I know....you hate to hear this...I'm truly sorry for having said this...and I probably deserve the spanking you are going to bring....BUT THIS FISHERY JUST ISN'T ONLY ALL ABOUT THE KING SALMON. Hence Gill's question. What you'd do without them?
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