Raaven

It is called a Seiche.

If what you are doing is not working, change something. 

Stop by blue dock #6, Wrights landing, Waterwolf Charters. I will give you all the free info you ask for,  to have a successful weekend !     Hope you find a partner. 

Yes, Mates do get paid, plus tipped...Yes, i am a USCG Licensed Master Captain as well, with Maritime Consortium card.  I have been a full time Mate/ relief captain on Lake Ontario for 37 years. 

All I was asking was how much you were willing to pay an experienced mate, to get out of bed and go to work.?  

How much are you paying?   I'm open Sunday morning only. Doubled Saturday and leave dock at 1 pm. Sunday with clients.

http://www.seagrant.sunysb.edu/glsportfish/pdfs/LOntFishing-Report0609.pdf

 

Here's a link to some historcial data on the lake.

 

Also, anyone remember the "Sonic Wave" huge box like depth finders? We never had one as they were expensive and our boat was too small but they were huge.

 

Man - I love this post and would love to keep hearing stories from the folks who fished in the 80's.

 

Chris

After reading and studying all that data.....It seems this is obviously a dying business...   

We had no down temp and never thought about down speed. What we used was a thermometer attached to 150' of cable on a hand spool. We would run out to the fishing grounds (120' drop off in front of Alcan, no 5 stacks then) and attach that temp probe to a Proos downrigger with a #16 rubber band, while the boat was out of gear and drifting.  We kept lowering the 10 lb. ball down until we found the thermocline. Took note of how many feet down it was, and started trolling. Once we were set up, we had this block of wood that was called a downrigger "computer"  that we held up next to the downrigger cable while trolling. The computer would measure the angle of the cable blowback, turn the block around, and a chart on the back would tell you how many feet to add to your downrigger cable to get to the depth you wanted. High tech stuff, state of the art . At the time our best spoons were rattle spoons and sugar spoons. The rattle spoons we bought off  Capt. Emil Dean while chartering him on Lake Michigan (Our "go to" source of info) The sugar spoons were small, cup shaped, and had colored Rhine stones glued to them. 

We had no clue what we were doing........every day was the learning curve....

I used to fish with Old Hickory quite a bit we stayed at a empty house he had in Catfish Creek in the spring we just pulled out of the creek casting Cleos catching Browns almost every cast, netting up alewives on the surface and casting them into the bubble. Dam should have bought that place from Neil when he offered it for 5 grand . Also fished with Ken Budd for Steelies in the Oswego river he was not a very personable guide but loved to fish hard.

Ken Budd had the first ever drift boat on the Salmon River. His first year he would pick me up at my fathers house and make me wear my lacrosse helmet and hold a pair of scissors the whole time down the river. Why the helmet and scissors?  SNAGGING WAS LEGAL, and he was the first drift boat to backtroll down through the pools of snaggers. Any fishing line that was cast across the hull of the boat had to be cut before the guy would yank the hooks back! Yes, I was hit in the side of the head with a few michigan crickets and was glad I wore that helmet. Oh, and all the chinooks we caught did hit the backtrolled hot shots as well. They were not feeding, but they did strike the plug....violently. Old Hickory spent a bunch of time fishing on The Misty Blue....I remember him fondly....Brian, after all these years you let that cat out of the bag?   It used to be a good secret......

I started fishing Lake Ontario in 1975-1976.....All we caught was coho while trolling in front of the salmon river. By 1978 my father was full time chartering out of east side marina in Oswego, I was his first mate weekends and all summer. We had a lot of trips, and no competition. By 1986 I had my captains license, and there were quite a few of today's, "old timers" coming on to the scene. 

Here is a picture I just found of  Oswego east side marina in 1981...notice there were no other fishing boats in it. 

I believe it was 1983-1984 before the next charter boat came in the marina, two guys actually came the same year, Capt. Ken Bud on his boat of the time, Trout Scout, later to be replaced by Amberjack in 1986.....and Mac Caderet ,  owner of Fredons Wholesale on Teal Ave, who had none other than Capt. Tony Buffa running his boat at the time....'The Bandito".  Mac moved on, Tony bought his 30' Sportcraft  "The Bandito II" around 1986...I was his second captain when he was in School or had Oneida Lake trips. 

Sign man charters owned by rich Clarke is excellent guide

I'd also recommend Capt. Bob Walters and Capt. Darryl Raate (Raaven) of Water Wolf Charters:

 

http://stlawrencemuskiefishing.com/

I will 2nd the choice of Capt Bob Walters of Water Wolf Charters!

Thanks for the recommendations !  

If we are plugging our peers...lets not forget Capt. Paul Corbett.   Hands down he was the top producing Guide last fall up there. 

There are a few more excellent choices of experienced St.Larry guides that all will do their best to put you on a musky, and in the process you will learn at least the techniques they are using that day you are aboard. 

Sign Man and Waterwolf are usually booked up pretty solid from year to year, so call them soon, or you will not get a date. 

Don't waste your time with a spin doctor and a fly....I tried many combinations of that for over 150,  ten hour days, over the course of three years on the St.Larry. I caught lake trout on it, but no musky. 

If it was going to work, it would have in that time frame? 

Nicely done, what dId the down temperatures look like out there? Cold?

Saturday it was 60 on the surface, down 22 feet it was 43 degrees. 

We fished from 8 am.-2 pm. today...North and east of Wilson, 29 line.   Besides being a tad bumpy, it was well worth the trip offshore. Teenage kings mixed with steelhead and lakers, one coho.....Spoon bite, three color off the boards worked good. 

I think 100-150 feet off either side is about as far as anyone can possibly run a board , before they are actually running behind, instead of beside a boat. 

If you are closer than that to me on a pass, you are too close . JMO. 

Yes, I have been using it a couple seasons now with good results. 

I push the tuffline back, exposing about 12 inches of leadcore, cut the lead. Then tie an albright knot if using long leaders, or a palomar to a swivel for short leaders. 

Carry Falls res.  has walleyes. 

That's some nice fish you got. Going towards fisher landing today didn't mark much up at Carlton. You going out today?

Yes, we are out everyday, from now until Dec 15 th...  We had a cancellation for Dec 8...if no one calls and takes it, we will fish it ourselves! 

Hey raate, did you get my message on MFF?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

No. I will go look. 

We got one at head of Carleton 38" try post a pic. Capt raate were you out late we came in around 5-530 one boat out past us comin in to Clayton?

That was me, I passed you in the dark. had you on radar long before visual! 

Congratz on your catch! 

We didn't connect on a musky, but got a huge 30 inch walleye up by Simcoe / Snake island...and the clients personal best ever northern at 41 inches and 17 lbs up near Tibbets point. 

Good luck today! 

We saw one boat heading backin. We are in a sea nymph gls grey with white top.was out just for a quick troll out front of Clayton. No Canadian license so we are heading towards Carlton tomorrow. I'll give you a call. Thanks

Figured that had to be you, as I only saw one other boat all day, and that was up by Kingston . Give me a call today, Wind says I will be closer to Clayton, and  in /out of Country all day. 

Stick a big one up at Carelton! 

Heading up in the morning,will be going out of French creek. Staying till Sunday,any suggestions on where to start? Just like he general area? Will post later tomorrow.

I think I ran by you this evening on my way back to Clayton? We have been fishing up river.  Kingston, Spectacles island, Milton island, down through south side of Howe.

Good picture at Cold Bath shoal today, no takers. 

I pick my general area daily, based on wind direction. 

Good luck ! Feel free to call for info or help...315 529-8279

                                                                                             Capt. Darryl Raate

That's the system we have used since late 1980's.....Walker has changed ownership a few times in all those years. At one time we were even part of their Pro Staff, still might be on their website saying we are? 

The trouble with the system is...IT BREAKS. We bought used systems from other anglers for years and years, and kept 4-5 cameras on the boat, many more IN THE SHOP, and rotated in repaired ones to keep ONE working....

It was a joke. The annual repair/replace Walker camera budget being many thousand dollars...

We are presently working with a new company (not to be named at this point) who are designing a whole new up to date technology underwater camera system.

Have some patience, it is coming. The brains behind the engineering ,builds/ uses underwater cameras for inspecting inside steam generators of nuclear plants.  

The first version of this new system will be field tested/used aboard The Waterwolf in the near future. 

Hi FishinNY - was out there this week for my last trip of the year in my own boat (bitter sweet putting her away each year) and had a good trip.  Boated three and saw a couple more.  Didn't measure any of them but smallest was maybe 30" that I snagged in the back - just did a quick boat side release on that little guy.  The other two were decent fish with the one having a nice girth.  This was the last trip with my boat for the year so I will be a stow away from here on out.  Sorry the pics aren't the best but I still haven't mastered the art of picture taking when I'm fishing alone out there.

 

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Your in good hands with Water Wolf - I'll be fishing with Capt. Bob & Darrel in two weeks myself.  Should be a lot of fun - hope they have the underwater camera setup working!

 

Also had to say goodbye to my pike buddy who kept watch over my boat all year.  Didn't want those perch getting to comfortable.  He spent the whole year around my boat and is noticeably fatter now than he was in the spring.  Funny how he would sit there with his back half out of the water sometimes. 

 

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Good luck out there!

Chad

The Walker Strike vision camera HAS BEEN REMOVED, from the Waterwolf.  We have a new custom one in design/ development stage. That old Walker system was 1980's technology, and they never moved forward with the times. Since no other company has picked up the ball and ran with a view while you fish camera...we are having one made. I don't believe even a prototype will be ready by the time you get on board. 

The trouble with the Go Pro, and Waterwolf and other cameras like them is....you have to view the action after the fact. We have them aboard and use them...but it just isn't the same. 

Once this new company develops and fine tunes the camera aboard The Waterwolf, their next step is marketing and sales. 

All I am allowed to publicly say at this point is...you won't need to buy a whole downrigger and separate monitor for the new system. It will be plug and play and compatible for all ! Good things in the future are coming! 

Looks good!

Next time you create one...try using a snap on both ends of your leader. 

That way it's easier to change leader lengths.  

You can experiment with different leaders, different combos, as well as matching/contrast color schemes....

I have a 6 inch solid orange Swim Whizz, with a 6 inch leader, to a green peanut fly, that the Coho salmon are loving, and a few kings took it as well. 

I talked to Jim (Mr. Toothy lures) and he recommended Troll Devil (which is a longer version of the daredevil), Lucky Strike Canoe Spoon and Papa Doc by Doctor Spoons. He also mentioned several spoons that are no longer made: Ivanhoe and Swim Zag If you can find them used.

Swim Zag spoons have been very successful for us!

Both incorporated in a BK rig, and trolled alone off downriggers and with added weight trolled off the otterboards. 

They are not presently being made for retail sales.....Look for them in the near future though. 

If you don't mind rigging / painting / dressing up a Swim Zag Spoon blank....Call Swim Whizz owner Matt Serbenski @ (269) 207-3550

I just talked to him about this, and made sure my order was covered   He said he has enough for all calls....

I agree with Ivan.... Large spoons behind believer or grandma..... Productive setup. Lol, have not heard it called 'Bk' rig before. That is funny. We have always called it a tandem set up. Caught quite a few fish on this set. There is underwater cam footage from a guide on the st lawrence filming a muskie following a 'bk' rig. The muskie follows the bait for some time and makes numerous attempts to hit the spoon. Really good stuff.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

Thank you for watching! 

BK rig, or Berger King rig as we call it, comes from the founder of the 1000 Island Bait shop, Dave Berger. Dave is credited with using this tandem set up and teaching a bunch of us how effective a Musky rig it can be. 

The BK rig has been modified by every angler that ever put one together since. 

One of the all time favorites aboard The Waterwolf is..the 8 inch Believer, followed by a C90 Williams Whitefish spoon. 

The last few seasons our "hot" bk rig has been a 7 inch Swim Whizz,  in St.Lawrence Frog pattern, leading 14 inches in front of a PapaDoc spoon. 

To get back to the original posters question...

The larger/heavier spoons like the #19-#20 tony accettas, and 9 inch Drone spoons we use, will troll at up to 5-6 mph before losing action. 

The lighter/ smaller spoons like the Williams Whitefish, Doctor spoons, and BK rigs, seem to have better action below 4 mph. 

We still use the underwater camera, and one thing I would like to point out is...

What WE THINK, is good action on any rig, might not always be WHAT A MUSKY THINKS....

As was evident one day when an experimental spoon was spinning out of control on the camera, and before we could slow down the boat, or pull the rig and change it...a 49 inch musky came up and CRUSHED IT!