Sk8man

The Victrola is one option for jerking copper and another popular one is the A and S automatic reel which often used monel wire ( a silverish colored  soft wire somewhat like copper in many respects but at least for me tended to kink and break more often than copper.

Bill   It is mainly used for bottom fishing for Lake Trout. There are spring (s) (some have only one others have multiple usually two) inside that are wound up with a "key"  to create tension on single strand copper wire to which either a somewhat heavy spoon with the fixed hook facing upward to avoid catching on bottom or snagging weeds, OR a small thing resembling a flatfish on a leader (Twin minnow). The spoon is dragged slowly along bottom all the while "feeling" the bottom. The Twin minnow is run close to bottom. The operator holds the wire between his thumb and forefinger and uses a jerking motion ( often 2 small jerks followed by a long one or the reverse of it) as the spoon drags along the bottom (hopefully on cobble so you can feel it better). Like wise the twin minnow is pulled usually slightly and just off bottom, but everyone has a little different technique and success may depend on minor things that are done and firsthand  experience is probably more critical to this technique than anything else in fishing and closely relates to success. Sorry Bill I couldn't resist ( But I did make it in less than a thousand words) Oh I forgot..... any slack in the wire as you troll along is taken up automatically by the spool on the top of the victrola.

Good idea..... if the guy is there he has some beautiful victrolas

Kinda like asking for someone to give up the rights to their high producing goldmine.....just joking

On 2/16/2023 at 9:58 AM, Steve.e said:

I think a lot of Robins never left. I've been seeing them all winter long. We're going to get nailed probably sooner or later.

There are always some Robins that stay around all winter and don't head for Florida. When they do come back though they are usually in large numbers when they return.

Sorry drynet if the use of the word "point" gave you the wrong idea... I was just referencing that to give some context to what I was saying about the reason for my strategy....I own what I said... I wasn't trying to stir anything up at your expense

More is not always better. A point has been made about the release of fish relating to the amount of time it takes to retrieve long lengths of copper. Ifishy's advice fits with my approach. I have  200 copper and 300 copper setups and when I want to get deeper I use attachable weights and I have run them with a Fishhawk TD attached quite a few times so that I have a pretty good idea where the lines are running with given amounts of weight. Even without weights it is really a "guesstimate" with them ( e.g 44 and 66 ft respectively without weights) but I have also found that even that particular assumption can be off with strong opposing or cross currents etc. The main reason for doing it that way is to conserve time reeling fish in and in the heat of summer they still may languish. All this stuff really boils down to "personal preferences". There is no "right" or "wrong" to a given strategy. Another thing is that "stealth" may be somewhat irrelevant when for example talking about a 300 copper with fluoro leader that is trailing the length of a football field behind the boat.

20 hours ago, Spacecb said:

I've been a serious perch angler for 50 yrs in IMHO you should release those big female perch. Take a photo and release.

I fully agree the larger ones in that range are primarily females and they are the breeders. Usually when you fillet them much of their internal area is devoted to fish egg capacity so it may not have as much usable flesh as smaller perch anyway. I don't keep anything 13 inches and above unless it is dying. Perch are a vulnerable species because of their schooling behavior despite their prolific breeding.  We need to conserve breeders and real small perch as well. I have seen people keep some that would look good in a fish bowl or aquarium and you'd probably need a microscope to see them on the dinner table.

Hb2 made a very good point about the driver...you don't want to be wandering all over the place going into the wind or heavy current and you do have to adjust your setups accordingly. Usually  lures operate  more effectively going against or across current and going with strong or cross currents you can experience more tangles especially on turns so it pays to keep things simple.

I prefer t go with the wind whenever possible. I don't use an autopilot and primarily use my 9.8 for trolling, but it can also depend on which way the currents are running and the strength of it. If I have to go against a strong wind I use my 135 Optimax motor for better control. It helps to know your boat well and how it handles in various weather conditions to make decisions.

Great spoons. A lot of money fish caught with them on a variety of setups.

Lets hope so Stan It would be nice to get some to hit A lot of new stuff to try anyway

Yes Stan mine are going to get a real good workout as soon as I can get the boat out of storage and especially during the derby.

He nickel plates the before the gold or silver plating so these are really sturdy spoons with a great finish. The black nickel ones save me from painting spoons black too

https://elmerhinckley.com

May he rest in peace and his family find peace as well. Very difficult being on the "sidelines" while someone you love is going through and fighting this horrible disease....been there unfortunately. RIP Dave.

That is for each piece

Maybe that needs to be more specific.....some folks may be tempted to throw fishing buddies overboard

If there was a derby for them you'd have it won Mike

If anyone has the bottom running riggers down pat it is Frogger. He is my idol; especiially since he won the Seneca Derby last year

I haven't been down there recently Dre but I doubt it. You might want to call Smith Boys Marina down there during work hours they may know. They are pretty good guys. 585-374-2384.

Once again, this has many answers and hopefully some of the guys will pipe in with their specific setups. When running fairly close to bottom I usually run about 3-4 ft from the weight with flashers, dodgers and fly or cowbells, and slow my speed to about 1.4 to 1.8 sometimes even less with current. A standard for spoon is about 12- 20 feet if run clean if without attractor and with attractor 6-8 ft. or so. Things are different if running a Spin Doctor as they go all over the place rotating so I don't use them near bottom. You'll want to check the specific setup out to see how it is operating at the speed you are going before sending it down. As far as the distance to the peanut or Spin n Glow from the cowbells it is worth experimenting with for your own purposes but as a rule I set mine about 18 inches to about 28 inches being the longest. The Hammerhead cowbells offer the least amount of resistance so you might want them instead of the older type metal ones for easier handling. Both the size # 4 and # 5 work well on Seneca but I most often use the #5's with bait rigs.  Remember to set your release clip to tighter tension with cowbells or flashers etc. to avoid false releases.

Maybe some of ours?

Mark and I used to message back and forth in between his trucking trips and I hadn't heard from him in awhile or hadn't seen posts here for some time. Would have reached out if I had known.....a real loss to the LOU community So sorry to hear that and my condolences go to his family. He was an incredibly gifted and competent fisherman and openly shared his knowledge with the folks on LOU. May he rest in peace. Thanks for letting us know Andy.

Seems like a simple question at the outset but actually the answer can be quite complicated. Seneca and many of the Finger Lakes have a very different bottom structure than say much of Lake Ontario that is more like a basin. Seneca has a very diversified bottom both in terms of consistency (e.g. silt, weed growth, cobble, and rocks and sharp drop offs and outcroppings and pronounced points jutting out from shore where it comes up radically in a short distance. You can be trolling in deep water and then abruptly come up into shallow water. what  this means is that you have to be constantly monitoring your down rigger position and the bottom itself and making adjustments to the rigger. It is very easy (and common) to get the weights hung up on bottom when your attention drifts sometimes even momentarily. If it is a soft or mud bottom you may be able to retrieve the weights without much problem but in rocky or even cobble areas they can hang up so no matter what you do have the drag on the rigger set so that it can slip out if it hangs up. I once saw a guy in front of Sampson get hung up and it rips part of his gunwale out (fiberglass hull) and the downrigger went to the bottom.

 Another factor to consider is what you intend to run behind the weight and how far behind it. Running cowbells near bottom you need to run them short to the weight to prevent hangups while spoons can be run further behind. Some folks have riggers that can track the bottom and this can be deadly but still requires close monitoring and care. I seldom run closer than 5-8 ft from bottom on Seneca and I know the lake like the back of my hand or I wouldn't run that close. Blowback is another thing to consider as you can be further off bottom than you think and strong currents on Seneca can also get you into trouble if not watching intensely as there are cross currents and switching currents that can all of a sudden make the weight go closer to bottom than you had been when running with it. Some folks actually purposely bounce the weight of the bottom itself  to attract lakers and it can be effective but also costly. I know this is probably more than you asked for but there are a lot of weights of various types on the bottom of Seneca

It is called Accustrand (Made by Cablestrand Corp.) and it works fine. I have used it for years. I think Emptystringer sells it here.