Sk8man

I seldom change to trebles on stick baits because of the balance problems possible, but for other lures such as flutter spoons I changed over to 1/0,2/0 and 3/0  (depending on size of spoons 2 inch,3 to 4 inch, and larger respectively) Mustad Stainless Steel triple strength SINGLE Siwash salmon hooks ages ago and have never had a problem since changing away from trebles. On the downside they can be relatively expensive and I've bought probably a thousand or more over the years but they are worth it in my view... they never rust either.

Welcome aboard and best of luck this season.

Hey Bill don't stick your arms out or you'll be in Syracuse boat and all if this wind is up again tomorrow Good luck if you get out there.

There are a number of types of wire line used for fishing . Much of its use in fresh water has transferred from salt water fishing. Here are the basics for fresh water use:

Monel wire is a soft single strand wire that has been often used like single strand copper wire for bottom fishing (primarily for lake trout) with either heavier spoons such as the Pfleuger #4 and#5, barracuda spoon and many "knock offs (the Ace etc.), or used with a monofilament leader with flutter spoons such as Suttons etc.with the wire gradually let out until you feel the bottom and then it is dragged along  with the lure "ticking" the bottom. Monel can be used on automatic reels such as the A and S reel or victrola rigs which automatically take up the slack wire as you are fishing it. It is heavy in the water ( sinks rapidly) like copper and also soft which means it is prone to kinking so it isn't used much (if at all) for the type of fishing now done on Lake Ontario (especially with chinooks in there .

Copper wire - historically  the single strand type has been used like Monel  for bottom fishing for lake trout and other "incidental species" in the Finger Lakes just as described above ( lure dragged on bottom attracting the fish to hit by stirring things up and perhaps appearing wounded by its action). In the old days the copper wire was rolled up on a number of things including a piece of wood  even and let out gradually along bottom and then rewound on the object (Victrola rig, automatic reel, various home made devices to store the wire or even wound in a ring in the bottom of a row boat way back in time. "Pulling" or "jerking" copper is still done today on most of the Finger Lakes and it takes a very specialized technique to do it well. Traditionally18 lb test wire has been commonly used.

Stranded copper - More recently stranded copper wire (interwoven small single strands) has been used with a variety of high capacity reels largely in a different manner but with the same objective of the wire sinking to depths not reached by most other conventional line types ( e. g. lead core). Copper rigs can be used with dipsey divers, just a straight leader to lure presentation with or without additional weight, dodger fly/lures/ flashers, cowbells, Spin Doctors and their like and many other options. It is quite versatile and meant to achieve depth. A downside to it is that it can like the other soft wires kink but the stranded copper is somewhat more resistant to it than single strand. Commonly 30 or 45 lb. test stranded wire is used and it requires a high capacity reel to hold enough wire and also accomodate mono or braid backing. The backing is necessary so that the wire can be usd with a variety of planer boards or outriggers without damaging the wire in the releases. Commonly 600ft or more of copper is preferred to be used depending on the reel capacity.

Stranded Stainless Steel wire -  7 Strand stainless has been around quite a while and depending on use (everything from making up tackle from it, to wire leaders for pike and muskies, to downrigger cable, and also for Seth Green main lines among others) various wire diameters are used. 7 strand stainless is strong, it is basically rust proof, and very durable and resilient and not prone to abrasion. It is however in larger diameters quite stiff and at smaller diameters quite prone to kinking which like any kink can lead to a break off. There is also 19 strand wire that is relatively new in use and thus far I haven't used it so maybe someone else can fill in the gap here as far as the strengths and weaknesses but it basically does the same job. Stranded wire is currently being used with high capacity reels and rods with Twilli tips or roller tips (and some with roller guides as well) to help prevent kinking of the wire and also reduce friction and wear on the tips and eyelets of the rods.  These set ups may run dipsey divers, cowbells, flashers of various types, Spin Doctors, and a full range of other options ..again very versatile and depth oriented in most presentations rather than more surface oriented set ups. Most commonly used is 30 lb. stranded ss wire for this but stranded wire can go into the thousands of pound test and into the "cable" range. Like most other wire the larger the diameter the more resistance in the water.

Single Strand Stainless Steel Wire - More commonly used in salt water for a variety of things such as leader material, main lines for big game fish, although some folks use it for general trolling as in stranded wire use but it is not as resilient and in larger diameters can be stiff and hard to control on the reel.

That's wire 101 off the top of my head and I may have left stuff out as a result so maybe folks can chime in if I've left things out.

Here is another aspect to it...thought it was another appropriate opportunity to post it:

Yesterday my wife, daughter and I attended the world premier of an important documentary (entitled: "We Can't Eat Gold") by friends who are young film makers who have lived in Alaska and have been extremely touched by the plight of the Native Americans living there dealing with a proposed gigantic strip mining venture currently before the Federal Government (Obama) for review at this time.  These Native Americans (and the salmon) are being royally screwed over and their whole lifestyle and their own very lives and those of their children are being placed in grave jeopardy by the mindless greedy concerns of big mining business. They basically have little voice other than this documentary to get the word out to hopefully gain the support of the public who are for the most part totally unaware of this situation. I told Josh ( the film makers Josh Tucker and Gigi Marcantonio ) about LOU and that many good hearted, conservation minded people frequent this site from all over the country (and world for that matter)  and noted that everyone should be made aware of this because if this stuff can happen in the very heart of the Pacific salmon spawning grounds (Bristol Bay Alaska) variations on it could happen anywhere to the salmon. I seldom take up "causes" or "plug" anything but the concerns expressed in this video and by these young people (excerpts are on the You tube segment) are truly touching and the folks in this video are very REAL PEOPLE with very real fears - and greed is at the root of the threat to them and as importantly to the very existence of the salmon themselves (as well as a $300 million dollar commercial fishing industry). Please take a few minutes to take a look at the video "snippets" and hopefully offer them support in their efforts. Thanks. Les

Their website is: http://wecanteatgold.net/

Edited by Sk8man, April 07, 2013 - 4:59 PM.

Try using a fluoro leader with a either a Fast snap or Duolock snap at the terminal end and a small barrel swivel at the main line end of it.

Thank you AC, freshwatermodels and bassmaster...I have learned some things from this discussion....I had almost forgotten about "brookies" and their inherent beauty. I used to get into them pretty good at my buddies place on the Black River a long time ago. He had a water falls on his property and they used to sit in the pool at the base of it. They were tough critters to get to bite sometimes in the clear water But were valiant.fighters for their size on ultralights...brings back some fond memories...thanks.

Lake trout has it right....and about $600 for the seal on mine a couple years back

Welcome.....looks as though you sure had the "eyes" figured out on Lake Erie from that pic

Best of luck to you out there. Hopefully this weather will cooperate and bring the water temps up a bit

Welcome aboard Tony! I think you'll enjoy this site and gain something from the content as well as the great social aspects of it.

or pollywogs (tadpoles)

Yes and especially so if you have a through hub exhaust opening where the water could sit while out in the air.

Nice well thought out setup.

What would anyone say if someone took the view that the color is irrelevant? and that it is the action that gets the fish...the color is happen stance (geared to catch the fisherman buyer) and the proximity to the fish is what really counts ?

Real good point flybuster...definitely have to adjust for depth....I was just setup for the 4 ft. in the above example. It is also noteworthy that these little pkrheads are often very fussy

The teleflex is great...kind of like going from standard steering on a car to power steering.

First of all it is not being a "bonehead' to ask questions here. Regardless of experience or skill level (charter captains included) we are all hopefully learning from each other here.

bobpugh's info is a great starting point...especially while you are getting used to the new boat and your new equipment. There will always be a "learning curve" attached to the situation but I would suggest taking it slow in terms of your "spread"  of equipment until you get a feel for the boat and your new equipment. The general strategy for Spring browns is to run the lines way back and troll slowly using "s" curves near shore. Use a combination of spoons and stickbaits to start out with and see what they seem to prefer. You might want to start out with smaller stuff at this time of the year. Once you get used to your boat and equipment you might consider lighter fluoro leaders (e.g. 10 lb test) with your drag set lighter accordingly. Just a word of caution regarding going close to shore. The water level has been low for some time and there are below surface obstructions in many areas of the lake and bays in close (boulders, concrete bases of former docks etc.) let your boards do the "exploratory" work close in near the shoreline. Good luck!

Strange April eh? I made sure I ran all the water out of my outboard at the launch ramp the other day "just in case"....glad I did now as I can't get my motor all the way down when it is parked here. I also covered the prop as it is in the "up" position so no water gets in. One night at that temp shouldn't do much damage but who's into taking chances with the cost of a lower unit "re-do"

Zimm you have a PM

I've been using them since about 1979 on the Fingers....one of my "secret weapons" ...not so secret anymore

It is possible that motor noise is  one (important)  FACTOR in the situation. and a 4 cycle trolling motor would be quite a bit quieter as well as more economical. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it is the ONLY factor... First of all Seneca lake has changed drastically over the past decade in terms of water clarity and in terms of available fish despite what you may assume from the "success" reports here. Many fishermen get skunked but don't report it for a  variety of reasons despite their skill level or fishing experience. There is a lot of water volumn out there (trillions of gallons) and a lot of surface area (many cubic miles). Much of it is unproductive in terms of fish availability. You could troll in some areas of the lake without ever seeing anything or catching anything. With that said it would be good to go back to square one  with your thinking for a "new start". Map out where (the areas) you have been spending the maximum amount of time thus far and the approximate depths. Are these specific areas and depths matching up to where the fishing success reports are coming from? If not try those areas/depths with the setups they are reporting. This process is basically to "weed out" possible contributors to your problem while fostering the things that work. Next MEASURE your speed with something that is fairly accurate. You stated that your motor will troll to a crawl but appearances may be deceiving....do this with your equipment out in the water because there is a difference in terms of "drag". Try out different set ups with different speeds (e.g. 1-8-2.5) Later in the summer rainbows and landlocks may want 2.5-3.0. It helps to record down things on paper and when you have some data points it often clues you into patterns that either work or don't work ...both sets of info are important. Observe where (if at all downrigger and/or motor noise is most noticible to you...if you are hearing it as a "problem"  (maybe at certain speeds mayb avoid that speed setting if possible) then look for solutions ranging from trying different lean/rich combinations on the motor, sound deadeners for the wire, placing downriggers at different angles, possibly change the wire to heavy duty braid, and/or change the weight/type and see what results from that. Maybe a prop change at a different pitch would allow the motor to run differently at different speeds allowing the motor to troll down without working so hard...Some folks place extra gasket material  around the shroud to help cut back on engine noise as well as spraying sound deadener on the inside of the motor cover (I've never done it so not sure of feasibility). Go back over your equipment and compare how you are setup with what has been reported as successful here on the site. Much of the Lake O stuff will also work on the fingers too. Check to see how far away you are running your lures from the boat if for example you are out quite far with your boards or are way back with leadcore...I would suspect that motor noise may not be the main problem....possible more likely with the downriggers though. What patterns are you trolling ? Are you doing "s" curves and going across current (diagonals) and against the current most of time,varying your speeds up and down..you should be for maximum lure action. Try using smaller lures run way back from the boat at the speeds I mentioned. I think if you experiment carefully and pay close attention to detail you will figure out your problem...it also takes patience and experimentation so don't get discouraged either   We are all learning but attention to details makes all the difference sometimes. Good luck.

Ray we're getting them shallow - 4ft. water around here by using small jigs called Trout Magnets (also used for ice fishing) with small to medium sized fathead minnows. If you use grubs, oaks or waxies you will get opportunists like shiners, sunnys etc. I rig them up on 4 lb test fluoro about 2 1/2 ft long and use a #10 or 12 barrel swivel to tie to the main line (4 to 6 lb clear mono).  I put the small bobber with a lead ring at the base (makes it easier to cast) just above the barrel swivel and let the minnow swim around freely. Fast snaps can be used to attach the jig or tie them directly but NO SWIVEL it spooks them. If they are not hitting them switch to a third to half a nightcrawler...you risk the other "intruders" but especially after a rain or in murky conditions they work.

After losing my $250 military pilot sunglasses (which I loved) over the side while netting a fish I've decided to stick with cheapos for fishing