TyeeTanic

I wouldn't put boat in neutral if you have wire divers, copper, leadcore or riggers out ... you're for sure gonna bottom out those lines, unless you are fishing shallow lines in VERY deep water.

Plus you don't know what the underwater currents are doing and whether they'll send the wire divers into the rigger lines ... just asking for big trouble, could cost a lot of money and time to fix that mess. Not worth it.

Plus, more chance the fish spits the hooks, if not well set, and you go into neutral.

5 color, braid lead of say 6 ft, and another 5 color, then backing.

Outside diver (further from the boat) ... setting 3, less line out.

Inside diver (closer to the boat) ... setting 1, and possibly even use a larger diver (mag). more line out.

For example, inside might be 200 ft out, inside would be 150 ft out (higher in the water and further away).

Reason. When the outside gets a hit, it will rise, and move to the center of the boat. If it is below (lower in the water) than

the inside diver, it will cross into the inside wire, and tangle.  If it is higher, it will just go over the inside wire.

So, there's two suggestions I can offer:

1) we tie a boca grip to a rope.  When you're finished removing the hook, you clip the fish onto the boca grip and drop it into the water behind the boat, attached to the rope (which is tied to your boat cleat). You carry on, while the fish is "dragged" through the water by your boat (at 2 mph or so).  This has an amazing revival rate, as fresh water is sent over their gills. When fish looks like it is fully active (takes about 2 to 3 minutes) ... pull the line in, release the boca, and good bye to a healthy fish.

2) in terms of the net, and avoiding bad tangle ups, I think one thing is to tie up the net material. I don't have an imagine of it, but see in this photo, how the guy is holding the net back onto the pole, you can do the same, except with a clip ... the clip is worthwhile when your net has a very long (often telescopic) pole. It prevents the net from draggin back towards the fish as the boat is still moving, and getting a nasty tangle up. Makes for a clean fish netting excercise ... and once the fish is in the net, the clip releases and the fish easily enters the center of the net.

I used a magnetic latch to do this, one end hooked into the net, and the other end quick-tied to the post.

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Fly-Fishing-Magnetic-Net-Hanging-Buckle-Magnet-Net-Gear-Fishing-Tool/PRD0RQ764062OX4

Just one point though, when you have a paddle on, drop the DR slower .... otherwise the paddle and line to bait get tangled.

On 8/4/2021 at 10:24 AM, risackila said:

Thank you. Do you suggest running just spoons off DR or is spin doctor also option?

I'd say majority of time spoons ... which also gives you an option to put on a free sliding cheater line.

But for sure some guys put paddles on with meat/MC rocket, or flies.  Start with the spoons, if they not working, then you can switch one up to paddle/bait.

12 hours ago, Mike M said:

I tried 30 lb blood run sea flea line. Found that 30 lb big game did better job keeping fleas off.

Yeah I always used 30 lb big game, no issues, except for knots ... fleas would always grab there.

Normally DR for Great Lakes is run off 30 lb mono, mainly because line diameter is big enough that fleas don't hold onto and build up on line.  I definitely wouldn't use braid.

You could get away with 20 lb ... as long as you don't get flea build up.

17 hours ago, sherman brown said:

yeah i'm starting to understand salmon fishing with 7 strand wire is a different animal. thanks to you guys for clueing me in.

Oh, I've made the same mistake lol, when someone was talking wire and didn't clarify it was for Walleye ... I wrote a story about 7 strand ... only to get a simple response ... NOT FOR WALLEYE FISHING! LOL.

21 hours ago, sherman brown said:

when we fish erie for eyes we let out the wire then enough of the braid backing to reach the release on the board. we have let out as much as 50' of braid.

A full spool of wire on our reels is 1000 ft ... you wouldn't do that without asking for a tangle mess, when you fish for salmon.

15 minutes ago, Lightbringer said:

Yeah I'll do this with an empty small dipsy I think... can't wait for all those fleas!

Should I let out the backing too, or just the wire and leader?

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The backing (braid) is less important, but at that point, you'd have 100 ft to go. I definitely wouldn't risk letting out all the backing, and then something happens to that knot around the spool! LOL ... but yeah, you can dig say 50 ft into the backing, and then start reeling it all back in.  Just make sure you do it at a steady speed so you have a nice even tension on the line always.

13 hours ago, Lightbringer said:

There is a gap near edges of spool where wire didn't fill well... thinking that contributed to issue also. I am going to spool fresh, and try a 30 or 50lb braid backing so it winds compactly.

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One thing to note. Once you fresh spool, a lot of clever guys will go out deep on their boats, and let out ALL that line with just a big paddle to create some tension/drag.  If you're deep enough (300'), using only a dipsey is even better, as the paddle can twist the line if the swivel isn't great. Then they real it back in under that tension. You end up with the line seating way better ... because it's a nice constant tension, and can also take your time to make sure it seats from full side to side of spool. It also (with a good swivel) takes out any twist that may have been introduced during the fresh spool.  No doubt, when I look at the before (on fresh spool) and after (let out and reel in) ... you can tell the wire is seated way better. In fact you will notice the wire is more compact and you could have probably added a little more backing!

4 hours ago, Lightbringer said:

Old thread, but just had this happen to me.

Hooked into a big mature, went from 135 ft out to 300 in about what seemed to be 10 or 15 seconds...fish was ripping wire off super fast (second fastest I've seen to date) I had previously cut apx 150ft or so off my 1000' reel due to a tangle. Got to 300 ft out on this fish, and wire snapped at spool .


Looked like it was crossing opposite from the line guide creating additional friction, and was enough to break the 30lb 7 strand wire. Spool has mono as backer, wondering if I should cut off all wire and respool from empty with 50lb braid as backer or something like that.

Any thoughts on braid weight? Should I skip and spool instead with fluorocarbon backer?

It was heartbreaking to know there was a giant hooked hard at the end and losing it like that (with my dipsy, flasher, etc too, obviously) - being my fault too.


So if anyone in Olcott/Wilson area hauls up a big one and it's got a bunch of gear toting along, let me know!

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So you have about 550 ft of wire left?  I'd be tempted to spool up at least 300 ft of braid (I generally used 30# braid) ... if you can get 500 ft on there, even better.  You rarely would have more than 250 ft of wire out anyhow, so that should work. It's just that with a big fish, you'll for sure see the backing spool out.

I wonder if you can attach the braid on now ... with the 550 ft of wire still on the real, and just start spooling it on, until the reel is full, then transfer back to another similar reel?  You would then end up with the braid under the wire, and you'd have the max amount of braid you can get on that reel.

As others state above, they are TWO different techniques.

For wire dipsey, you want a 7 strand or 19 strand 30 lb line 1000 ft long.

Attach the dipsey to the end of the wire, and add the tackle to the end of the dipsey... like paddle/fly or spoons.

Weighted steel doesn't get a dipsey ... it's thicker diameter, heavy .... and sinks without the dipsey.

I would say 300 and 400, you'd be targeting 60' and 80' deep then. You can actually elevate that 300 line a bit higher too, by putting on a BIG paddle (creates more drag) ... that might get you to 50' ... it covers a lot of the water column that way, depending on your target depth.  

4 minutes ago, ErieBuck said:

I've done it on two trips so far and haven't had a problem at all with the scotty clips and 19 strand.  Time will tell but I don't think the scotty clips will cause much wear as they are smooth plastic and the 19 strand is slick like braid.  I know people use a bunch of different clips out there so experience will vary.... could always half hitch a rubber band if need be.  I had big waves yesterday and just had to put the line a little deeper in the clip.  with braid or mono i like to create a loop to clip to by twisting the line about 5 times (like you do for black's downrigger releases).  Obviously you can't do that with 19 strand but it still works well just clipping it.   As I said in a post above, you just have to be careful to keep clicker on or keep thumb on a free spool or you're screwed.  

I'm more concerned about having the wire clipped at a certain point, and then you get bending back and forth due to wave action. Kind of like taking a wire in your hand and bending it back and forth, eventually it will snap.

Are you guys clipping the 19 strand onto the boards??? How do you avoid snapping the line from fatigue?

That is a monster.  Picture doesn't do it justice, I'm sure. Seeing these things in person, you gain a whole lot more respect for a fish this size.

There's guys that will tell you less is more. There are firm believers that having 8 lines in the water doesn't help you, it could actually hinder you.   I think it is a matter of being versatile and seeing what the fish want. If the bite it hot, then sure 8 lines might work. If the fish are shy ... sometimes less is really more.

Note in your cable picture ... don't want to repeat, but for sure for a 12 lb weight that is WAY too much angle, your downspeed is definitely way too high. I wouldn't expect to see more than 20 to 30 degrees from a 12 lb weight. But note this ... you may see 20 degree into the water, but the cable then actually curves out (tending towards flat horizontal) the deeper and deeper it is in the water, so the overall angle is more than what your eyes can see.

A 15 lb weight is obviously better .... but you really need to make sure your downrigger and gunwale can handle it ... over 12 lbs is getting into risky business. I've even seen gunwales flex with 12 lb weights ... wouldn't dare put 15 lbs on those boats.

Doing the charter is a GREAT way to learn ... you will zero in on a lot, saving you lots of time and MONEY.  I'm assuming you got yourself a good charter that can produce?

16 hours ago, LongLine said:

Your cable picture tells me your down speed is very high.  Rather than trying to go with or against currents, try going across the general current.  i.e. N-S troll.

 

The rods in your pix aren't nearly loaded enough.  With one rod out, try putting your boat in neutral & observing the tip.  If all the rod bend comes out, then load the rod more.

 

Agree with JD, ditch the fish icons.  Seaweed, flotsam & other crud will show up as fish, which will drive you nuts.  

 

Good luck.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

 

 

 

I was going to say exactly that, those rods are definitely not loaded up enough ... needs way more curve ... 

25 minutes ago, ErieBuck said:

What kind of program do you run on your riggers to draw them in? One attractor, one spoon? Two attractors? Mid/late summer last year I had some success with 11inch paddles w/ Twinkie meat rigs on both riggers but wasn’t running boards, just wire divers. Hoping to
get bit a little more by incorporating some copper on the outside this year so i like that strategy of drawing them in.

I hate fishing for walleye but it’s something to do mid summer and they are good eating! Later in summer they can be down 50 or more, but usually suspended in the middle water column 25-40, so short 3 cores with deep diving plugs usually do the trick.

Late Summer steelhead fishing temps are usually down 50-75. Sometimes will get deep on long lines for Lakers, but usually target with riggers/divers


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Well, I sold my boat a few years back, but was definitely deep into it and all the techniques at the time, including participating (and placing) in tournaments (4th place was my highest finish in Tightlines). 

I preferred spoons over anything else on the riggers, often starting with glow patterns early in the morning, but also paying attention to spoon colors from spring to late summer (blues/chrome in spring, then moving to greens, then purples/reds/orange).  I'd also put on some j plugs to get erratic action deep in the summer to entice staging kings.  As the dusk diminished and the sun set in, I moved to spoons with UV in them.   I have to say, NOTHING did better for me than my trusty 42nd spoon.

On occasion, if I found spoons just weren't working, I switched to meat rigs (11" paddle, and a herring strip, or an MC Rocket). Sometimes that did the trick.

A few of my buddies will add paddle and fly off the rigger ... but I normally reserved that combo for the wire divers.

I also threw on a free slider on the rigger lines, to target fish higher in the water column ... normally got lots of hits from steelhead.

As for your answer on walleye depths, yeah, that makes sense ... it's totally in range for leadcore.  On Lake O in mid summer, you need your lines typically 60ft to 100 ft down ... cores just don't work (unless you put together a SWR ... short core off the rigger).  You end up having to use copper, and by the time you let out 400 ft of copper, and another 100 ft of backing line ... you are playing with fire if you have more than two out there (one on each side).

48 minutes ago, ErieBuck said:

I've done it before with big boards for walleye/steelhead/lake trout on lake erie many times but not for kings... have only used 4-6 rod setups without boards on Lake O in my previous trips.   Why does it seem like many only run one line off the boards?  Usually if I go through hassle of setting up the big boards, I want to run more than one line.  I was thinking 4 of the 8 rods in my setup would be on boards and out of the way, 2 wire divers, 2 downrigger rods.  

You can, but often times the riggers and wire divers work better ... so guys are focusing on those setups.  The ACTUAL strategy is to create a pattern that draws the fish into the riggers (due to ball turbulence), if they don't take the rigger lines, they drop back and have a look at the diver lines, if they don't take that, they have a look at the copper lines further back (and stealthier).

For walleye what depth are you normally targeting? I think guys get worried when they have 300 ft and 400 ft copper lines out on the boards ... we already see enough tangles (one is more than enough) with just two lines out, especially when a king takes it, and sweeps across from port to starboard (or vice versa). Can create one big mess really fast.

20 ft down for 100 ft out ... so 300 ft is getting you 60 ft down.

You'll be running 2.2 to 2.8 mph ... the depth above is achieved more in the 2.2 to 2.5 mph range.

Terminal tackle also impacts depth, a large paddle and meat rig will create more drag than say a clean spoon, and more drag "lifts" the line up so you lose depth.

Anyhow, I'd say if you stick to 2.5 mph, you'll be in the 50 ft to 60 ft range with 300 ft of copper.

I assume you've run an 8 rod spread before?

It's one thing having the equipment, and another having the experience to deploy and retrieve and not end up spending half your day untangling lines.

Assuming you have done this before ... for sure 2 downriggers, probably a cheater on one of them (to target steelhead), 4 dipseys wire divers, and 2 off the boards one on each side of the boat (depending on where the 42F to 48F depth is, it'll be either leadcore for shallower depths, and copper for deeper).

If you haven't done 8 before, I'd probably cut 2 wire dipseys from the stage.