HB2

6 minutes ago, fisherman777 said:

It was a major league fishing (mlf) tournament with the catch weigh release format, so they were allowed to fish it before the traditional opener. Not without its issues as multiple anglers were penalized in that tournament for foul hooking fish off beds, catching the same fish more than once, etc. Maybe tourney fishing during the spawn in any format isn't the best idea...

Ya think........

The Bass fishing was fantastic untill the gobies arrived . Then there came VHS which hit the population hard . There has been a rebound .There are less fish but average size is bigger. Because of the cleaner water from zebras , they summer deeper . Which makes them harder to catch .

Southern Bass lakes are a shadow of what they use to be from tourney pressure and boat and  electronic advancements . 

There was a major bass tourney during the height of spawning season  on Cayuga lake last year . They state and locals  must have approved it so I don't think they care much .

$$$$$$$

I concur , it was a great year of fishing ! Hopefully this year is good also . 

I have been a Lowrance / Eagle guy for years and have been happy with everything  I have owned , but I don't know any better . I'm ready for something new . I'm really not brand loyal at this point . I've have never had but a hand held GPS so I'm kind of excited about that . What is mapping exactly as I have heard something about that and I fish the same areas most of the time ? 

I want it strictly for salmon trolling . And don't want to spend a fortune 

Better watch yourself Brian 

You might get canceled for not thinking the right way . Might lose your job and your pension . And might sic the IRS on you . It's not like it hasn't been done before . 

Make no mistakes about it , they are coming for us . 

So my friend and I  straight out from Green Harbor 150 ft  on a slight chop mid morning. I see a boat we were coming up on and as we got closer i see it was dead in the water and no body was in it . I figured it broke loose from moring and drifted out overnight as the breeze was offshore . We trolled right up to it and as we got close I saw a guy stand up  quick and sit down fast . I was about 100 ft away and I asked if everything was OK . He said I'm fine and seemed real embarrassed . I looked at the boat and am saw another guy laying on the floor hiding . Saw them both at the ramp putting their boat on the trailer . 

I don't know what was happening our there but I have my suspicions . 

All this stuff ( riggers ,rods , reels ,electronics ) are tools to catch fish, that's how I look at it . All this stuff does the same thing . Some better than others . 

I would pick the ones that you have the most confidence in . The ones that are most reliable , and user friendly for you . 

You say you have 4 Penns and will be mounting 2 . I would go that route, if you like them . If one goes down , just grab another and fix the bad one later . Everything breaks eventually . 

I'm still " wait and see " 

Spring and Summer LOC weights  will tell us a lot . Bait has come back somewhat  last 2 years and should make an impact . 

Not a lot we can do between now and then . 

As stated , we got our original eggs from the upper Great Lakes. So we have the same fish as Lake Michigan. Their bait crashed, and they had Mature kings returning at 12# for years . It's come back over there after years of management. 

Am I wrong to  consider a   summer to late summer 12 to 18 king to be a 2 year old ?  Some probably are . But are some smaller 3 year olds? 

DEC says after their studies how much bait there is . Some guys disagree,and say I had bait on my screen all day . Well maybe their was where they were but there is a lot of dead water out there.

Actually it might have something to do with diet . I don't know how it might but you are what you eat . And if the fish are malnourished , mother nature might send them early. 

And how can we tell age ? Yankee says you can't tell by looking at them.  Last year I and others  got a bunch of Jacks in the stream on skein .  Did not catch one this year . 

 I did contacted( email ) the DEC and asked if they were aware ,why it is happening,and what they planned on doing going forward . 

They replied they were fully aware. And the reason they suspect and are   sure of are .....

Low bait abundance in the lake we had a few years of bad year hatches. He said you can't grow big fish without a lot of bait .  

Sea lampreys that suck the fluids and can kill a salmon . 2 years of covid  thwarted stream treatments . 

He also said it is strictly diet and not genetics . We got our eggs originally from the upper Great Lakes . The same fish that are in Lake Michigan . They crashed their bait by overstocking and Mature fish were avg 12# . But it has rebounded . He also said we constantly have the biggest Kings in the Great Lakes . 

He also said we had a good hatch of bait the last 2 years and expects sizes to rebound , but not much . The increase in stocking will offset the increase in bait . He said they are trying to do a balance of good fishing to size . 

He said more , and I am paraphrasing . But that is the gist of it . 

Ring ring ring 

DEC , how can we help you ? 

Are you aware king salmon weights are down for the last 15 years ? 

OMG , with all the scale samples , graphs, charts of every aspect of their lives egg to eggtake , the angler surveys lake and creek , bait biomass assessment and how many to safely stock , and all the other data we take , we completely missed the fact weights are down . 

Its a a good thing Mr Stakeholder you called and brought this to our attention. Otherwise we would have never seen this . 

It all starts with Mother Nature . And she's in charge . 

I heard thru the grapevine they want to drop it another 1.5 ft . 

I'd rather have it on the high side , but not to cause damage .

It dropping fast now .  

I agree with big pike and Gambler . 

2 hours ago, LongLine said:

Numbers may be a little off in our minds but that's what the state currently recognizes.  While they might raise some categories, I doubt they'll lower any as Big-O is promoted as  a "World Class Fishery."

And it is world class fishery . Where the hell are you going to go anywhere in the country , or world ,aside from Lake Michigan ,to have a chance to catch fish like we have 12 months a year ? 

I appreciate the heck out of it . Its awesome . 

Id bet my favorite fllyrod our guys have read this report ,and others . This was a decades long study with no definitive conclusion . And I'm sure there are more west coat studies out there as this problem is chronic . 

So go with the obvious , it's probably bait related. Even that study said that might be it . We have been told this by our DEC . But in the beginning,looking back ,  when they said this, and they wanted to cut stocking, there was huge push back . And still is . So it seems the DEC is walking a tight rope to provide us the best possible under current conditions. 

Any study will take years . So short term , go enjoy what we have while you still have it . 

Untill the bottom of the food chain gets built up , ( and how do you do that ) were probably going to have to live with this , at least for a while . And hope it does not get worse . We will have wait and see . 

Looks like the guys up there did an extensive long term scientific study . And they still have no definitive answer as to why it is happening up there . 

Well,  short term for us , we will know more mid May when we see spring LOC weights . So we just have to wait and see .  

Sounds to me our DEC has not committed to or has an ongoing study as to why this is happening . Maybe they will . I wonder if they don't want to publicize this for bad PR . We  will just have to wait and see . 

Hopefully the fishing is as good as it was last year .I guess we will have to wait and see.  It was a madhouse at Wilson for the spring LOC . A lot of boats in out of Sandy some days during the Summer LOC. 

The word stakeholder gets thrown around a lot on here . What and and  who exactly is a stakeholder ? From my perspective it's any resident of NY state . Taxpayers foot the bill for the funding of the stocking program .Hopefully it is profitable  or  at least a break even . Some have more skin in the game, ( captains , tackle shops , lodging and restaurants ) but even the kid who works at the Pulaski McDonald's and doesn't fish has skin in the game . 

From the study , they are going thru what we are down here . Maybe it will get better.  We can only hope. At this point all we can do is wait and see . 

My brother in law had both hips replaced and after  hiked all 46 high peaks of the ADKs . 

I had an Aunt who basically could not walk have both knees replaced and walked to the grocery store daily after . This was 25 years ago . 

Joint replacement surgery has sure come a long way . 

I have a little more faith in the people who are in charge of what is going on in the lake than some . I'm sure they are quite aware of what is going on out there . They seem to moniter this stuff pretty well with all the data that's available for all to see.  It's in their , and the states best interest to provide the best fishing experience possible . And I mean monetarily wise . 

This lake has gone thru huge  changes  in the last 40 or so years. Anyone with a pulse should be able to see that . And know that with way less bait , there will be less and smaller fish . Obviously something is going on . Maybe it's not the bait . I have my theories and bait is part of it. 

You can have all the stakeholder  input you want( with the demands for as many kings stocked as possible in the past  might be part of the problem )  but you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear . For every action their is a reaction . Zebras cleaned up the lake. less bottom of the food chain , less bait , fewer fish stocked ,cleaner water , sight feeding cormerant thrive . 

Fertile ground grows great crops . And the lake isn't as fertile as it once was . It seems it is a delicate balance of fish to bait biomass . Maybe they are stocking to many fish ( to satisfy stakeholders) and they are stunted like to many sunfish in a small pond . 

I'm not shrugging my shoulders , but you may HAVE to live with it .Fishing has been great last year . And the years  before they cut the stocking .  Time will tell .

You may want to hear what they say about how ,why ,and what they are going to do about it .  But you may not like what they say . 

Ring ,ring , ring 

Hello is this the DEC ? 

Why yes it is sir , how can we help you ? 

Are you aware the size of kings has decreased over the last 15 years ? Are you looking into that ? 

Why sir yes we are . Our extensive studies we have been secretly doing concluded that it is strictly bait related . There is a shortage of bait and they have less calories for the fish because of the water being cleaner . 

  Our recommendation to get those 40# kings you demand is a complete stop of all king and trout stockings for 5 years to build the bait biomass to sustainable levels . 

Well you can't do that . There must be another solution . 

Well sir you can't have your cake and eat it to. The  lakes ecosystem has changed dramatically the last 40 years . If the lake ecosystem was the same as it is currently , there would be no Salmon in LO . Thanks for your concern on the mater . 

Ring ,ring ring

Hello is this the DEC ? 

Why yes it is  how can we help you ? 

Are you aware that the size of kings has decreased over the last 15 years or so? 

Why yes we are . 

Well we  as fisherman demand bigger and more kings . You guys better do something about it . 

We are working on it sir . Thank you very much for your input . You have a nice day . .....  

Yeah , that call will do a lot of good 

I  heard at a meeting once that that the natural reproduction rate was as high as 47 %. That's half the fish , a huge number . DEC has no control over that . 

The lake surface used to shimmer with dead alwives  after the die off . There are way less in the lake. 

It's not our father's LO . It's cleaner . Which doesn't necessarily mean better fishing . But we still have a great fishery I'm grateful for.  

I'd like to see them get some new eggs from the West Coast . Raise them at a different hatchery , mark them and see what happens . But I think  DEC said they did not want to do that to introduce more genetics someway . 

The salmon run is pretty much over .Pretty much a fly and pin trib trout fishery now .  They got their eggs . Lets wait and see how things go . And let the DEC do their job . 

And a call to the DEC will accomplish exactly what ? The data you posted shows they know what's going on with weights . 

This I  do know ......

Increase in king stockings due to more bait last 2 years  

A good class of 12# to 18# kings this past year .

So at this point , about the only thing we can do is wait and see . If there are 27# to 33 # kings on the spring  LOC board  , problem solved . And it was from lack of bait . 

Other than that , have fun catching  whats out there . I know I will . The fishing was great this year . The catching also . I'm excited about next year . 

And I still say it's time for a new hatchery . And raise some kings there like they use to at Calidonia in and see what happens . 

These things morph into other things.

It's a discussion board . 

Looks like it just came out of the water