Check out the article in NYON this week on the Golden Lake trout caught in Lake George.  The reporter must be very young, and not from the Finger Lakes, he marvels at the new fangled, unique method of feeding out line from a spool attached to a victrola motor, and that the reel automatically winds the fish up.  All you hand liners will get a chuckle!

You should know that the limit on Rainbow Trout in Hemlock Lake is 1, or is that a combined catch?

You'll want to read all this and get your comments in, you have until February 15.

 For Release: Friday, January 15, 2021

DEC Announces Release of Draft Sunfish and Crappie Management Plan

Proposed Plan Reflects Current Angler Views and Science to Provide Sustainable and Unique Fishing Opportunities for Popular Panfish

Public Comments Accepted through Feb. 15, 2021

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Commissioner Basil Seggos today announced the release of a draft Sunfish and Crappie Management Plan for public review and comment. The draft plan proposes more conservative statewide fishing regulations and establishes the "Big Panfish Initiative" that aims to provide unique opportunities by managing for larger-sized crappie and sunfish in certain waters. The draft plan is available on DEC's website and public comments will be accepted through Feb. 15, 2021.

"Sunfish and crappie are some of New York's most popular panfish species and with this plan, DEC is balancing conservation and fishing opportunities for more sustainable fisheries in waters across the state," Commissioner Seggos said. "DEC encourages New York's anglers to share their input on this draft management plan and the Big Panfish Initiative to help develop destination fisheries for sunfish and crappie and complement our ongoing efforts to expand and diversify New York State's freshwater angling opportunities."

In the draft plan, fishery managers propose management objectives after considering both the current science on sunfish (bluegill, pumpkinseed, and redbreast) and crappie management and the opinions of New York anglers. Results from an online angler survey (PDF) indicate support for more conservative sunfish fishing regulations. Recent research on the impacts of sunfish and crappie harvest regulations indicates that lowering daily harvest limits or increasing minimum size limits can result in improvements to population size structure, which is likely to improve fishing quality and sustainability for these species.

Elements of the draft plan include:

• Reducing the sunfish statewide daily harvest limit from 50 to 25 fish;
• Increasing the crappie statewide minimum size limit from nine to 10 inches;
• Establishing the Big Panfish Initiative, which includes:
• • Implementing an eight-inch minimum size limit and a daily harvest limit of 15 for sunfish in the following waters:
  • • Blydenburgh Lake (DEC Region 1);
    • Lake Welch (Region 3);
    • Canadarago Lake and Goodyear Lake (Region 4);
    • Saratoga Lake (Region 5);
    • Sixtown Pond and Red Lake (Region 6);
    • Cazenovia Lake and Otisco Lake (Region 7);
    • Honeoye Lake (Region 8); and
    • Silver Lake (Region 9)
  • Implementing a 12-inch minimum size limit and a daily harvest limit of 10 for crappie in the following waters:
  • • Muscoot Reservoir (Region 3);
    • Saratoga Lake (Region 5);
    • Delta Lake (Region 6);
    • Cazenovia Lake and Otisco Lake (Region 7);
    • Waneta/Lamoka lakes and Honeoye Lake (Region 8); and
    • Bear Lake (Region 9)
• Evaluating the impacts of these fishing regulation changes to sunfish and crappie population structure and through periodic checks of angler satisfaction.

Comments on the draft plan should be submitted via e-mail to [email protected] or via mail to Jeff Loukmas, NYSDEC, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233-4753; include the subject line "Sunfish and Crappie Management Plan." Comments will be accepted through Feb. 15, 2021.

Another question posed by these articles is why is this just happening now.  Is this a new additive, or has it taken years to build up to a critical point in the environment?  At any rate, in NYS, passive stormwater treatment has been required in many municipalities for quite a while,.  But a question for our friends at NYSDEC and USGS is whether this "new" compound may be linked to problems with Coho in Lake Ontario, where they do not seem as prevalent as they were when the programs were initiated. 

When I was working on the Rochester Embayment Remedial Action Plan, we listed cadmium as a Chemical of Concern, and the individual who introduced this named tires as a source.  I could find no literature indicating a significant role for Cadmium in tire manufacture, but I would not be surprised to find Cadmium in the pigments for all those double yellow lines that people kind of ignore a lot anymore. 

If Dr. Landrigan wanted to be thorough, he would discuss relative contributions of industrial nations without classifying them in terms other than their pollutant loads, like developing nation, which the Paris accords did for China and India, certainly the Number 1 and 2 dischargers currently. 

If the concern is a compound used in tire manufacture, the way to get it out of the waste stream is to drive less, or remove the compound (and that requires telling China to remove it, as I think our entire rubber industry has been “orientalized”).  Tires wear out on roads, and there isn't enough money in the world to build treatment systems for all the roads.

I am waiting with "baited" breath!

I've heard a lot of this in the past as my earliest fishing buddy, Andy Damen, took up the night game around 1970, generally on Canandaigua south end, and got very addicted to it.  I know he was never short of trout in his freezer, and they were a lot bigger than the ones we'd catch fly fishing out in Spring Brook in Caledonia.  I think it was his major fishing activity until Lake Ontario turned on, and then he moved to Connecticut.  I was back from college once and he offered to take me, but he said "no beer, you'll just be pissing over the side all night," and I passed.   But I've since come to understand what he was talking about!

Hey Les, How's the book coming?

Forgive me if someone else has posted this elsewhere on the board, and I missed it.  Steve LaPan , head of the Great Lakes Section of NYSDEC Fisheries and a familiar face to anyone who has attended State of the Lake meetings,  has announced his retirement.  When we heard of this, there had been no decision on his replacement.  Whether you agreed with all of his analysis and actions or not, I think all have to admit that there have been few folks in the DEC with as much dedication to his job as Steve has shown, and we are lucky that he was so committed to both informing the public through things like the SOL meetings, and gathering information from the public to factor into the decision making.   Lets hope and pray that his successor carries as big a skill set and concern as Steve!

This project is over 20 years old, Gary Nuederfer from Region 8 used to go up and assist every fall before his retirement .

I guess it is late for this, but a fair number of browns seem to migrate back to their stocking site.  In Rochester, a lot of browns get put in east of Irondequoit Bay mouth out toward Oklahoma Point, and we could always find a concentration right up near shore there.  I know the exact spot where DEC puts them in but it is a private residence.  But if I find a crowd at every access point on I Creek Like I did the other day, I may try spoons from shore at the new Town of Webster Park, casting from the rocks.  I think a lot of the browns that end up spawning in Webster and I Creek stage off Oklahoma and then run on later rain events.

I don't see an adipose fin on the top fish, so I'm going with emerald shiner.  I used to get lots of these in with the smelt when we dipped at Russell Station, and a lot of guys couldn't tell the difference (at least until they came out of the fryer.)   The bottom look like small sunfish, we used to catch lots of these in early August in minnow traps in a shallow area of Fourth Lake where the pumpkinseeds spawned, and when we get landlocks in August, they are generally full of these even when there are good year classes of smelt in the Lake.  They do not work as bait, however as they don't keep well in a minnow bucket, and they don't stay alive on the hook.

I ask because the hatchery worker I know says they have sufficient cohos in the tanks, and they are done with Kings, so what is the justification for closing now?

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 7:21 PM, King Davy said:

Here’s the unofficial word from the hatchery ( obviously they want to ...have to announce this) but from reliable sources sounds like they met their king salmon egg take in three days. No idea what the goal was (haven’t heard what that number is ) but they are finished

 

Coho’s are next and they have a huge group of coho’s in the hatchery and expect to easily meet their egg take goals.

 

Word from some acquaintances who worked the egg take they sampled some really nice big fish. And from the cohos I’ve caught and have seen caught we have a nice healthy group of fish that many believe are a little larger than usual.

 

So despite the low water and heavy fishing pressure the hatchery experienced a solid run of kings and cohos and will be in the process of raising them for next season.

 

 

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So did they open the fly stretch back up?

20 hours ago, Matt ching said:

Maybe I’ll just build a few on smaller streams around Seneca who’s in


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Regardless of your motivation, you'll need to get an Article 15 permit for every stream you intend to disturb, and you will also need landowner or municipal permission for anything you don't have title to, both for the permits, and to avoid possible trespass charges. 

13 hours ago, Roys Boys said:

We need more funding for the lakes and a powder we could put in the lake would be ideal.. wait for a south wind dump it going across the lake and let the wind and current do the rest

When you get your magic powder, do you think you could grab me one of those geese that lays the golden eggs, or one of the spinning wheels that turns straw into gold?

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 2:15 PM, Frogger said:

Your misinterpreting what I am saying. I don’t condone trespassing. What I do not stand for is when some bullies off people when in fact they can do just what there doing. Dock owners on lakes do it all the time right? I call that grief. But when someone trespasses throw the book at them. Fully support it.


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If the deed for a property includes the riparian rights, that includes fishing and it vests with the landowner, and the courts have ruled on that.   I know landowners in the Adirondacks who pay taxes to the low water line on their lakes and I contend that they have the right to tell people they can't anchor or contact the bottom rom that point inland whether inundated or not.  If you are on a public lake ( anything with more than tow landowners, and the bottom is under NYS h jurisdiction, you can basically sit 1 foot off the end of a dock and fish as long as you are not impeding navigation.  Of course, I might decide it was time for a little RAP concerty in my front yard if people got too close.

21 hours ago, whaler1 said:

Salmon in Sandy


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Time to take a road trip with the canoe and go up and anchor next to my buddy John!

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 10:23 AM, GAMBLER said:

Lets compare angler hours to revenue.  I would bet the farm, the lake makes more $ than the tribs for the state and local economies.  If you add up all the money spent on charters, licenses, lodging,  tackle, electronics, slips fees, repairs, up keep, boat purchases, gas, lodging, launch fees, ect. The average trib angler has a couple rods, waders and a box of lures.  

Or maybe they changed the name to the Department of Environmental Commerce!

I have 9 rods that I use for Great Lakes fishing.  And about 25 more for inland lakes and streams.

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 12:53 PM, GAMBLER said:

We are all screwed if the DEC does not get eggs and the kings get ripped out with the low water.  We will have less stocking, less natural reproduction and EVERYONE will suffer as a result.  Who knows how much natural reproduction is going to effected with the super low water.  If kings cant get into the most fertile waters to spawn, natural reproduction will suffer that way too.  Protecting your investment when it is super vulnerable is a smart way of doing business.  Shutting down the river until the egg take is complete is a better option than letting it go and suffering for years to come.  With high natural reproduction from the Salmon River, this could have huge impacts on the future of the entire lake fishery (NY and Canadian waters).  I don't see it as a ME, ME, ME attitude, I see it as a concern for the fishery.  

If you owned a motel in Pulaski that could charge a 30% premium for a room in September and October, and still be booked solid, you would see it as a me me me attitude.

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 8:31 AM, Yankee Troller said:

I'm still blown away that one river get so much attention for 2mos of the season. The bigger picture is all the small towns around Lake Ontario (US & Canada) who benefit from Salmon 6mos of the year. Since the DEC put fourth more regulations on the lake for Trout, and mentioned that Salmon are managed for the lake, we need to protect our Salmon as Lake anglers all around Lake Ontario. Canada closes their tribs. I'm not asking for a full closure. I'm asking for a closure until after egg take every year. The Salmon River is where a 90% of the stocked Salmon in Lake Ontario come from. Our best Salmon genes never make it to the hatchery. Some of our best Trout get ripped out by the slobs that Salmon season attracts. Low water years, like we have now, and the stocking cuts are not going to be good for the lake in the future. I've been fishing offshore for a month now. I do it every fall. Next years class isn't looking good. Our 3yr olds this year were the first 20% cut, and we saw how the mature fishery was this August/September. Next years matures are the 40% cut, and we're not seeing many offshore where they should be. 

I sent a comment to a friend at DEC to the extent that if the situation is critical enough to close the fly section, it would be logical to additionally require the release of all hens, and reduce the limit on males, and require salmon fishers to stop " fishing" once they had retained a limit, which would also help with the crowding and social distancing, which has to be a joke on some of those pools.

Since the second cut was 20% of what remained after the first 20%n , it is actually a 36% cut by my math.

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 7:27 AM, GAMBLER said:

Isn't the board supposed to be stakeholders?  By stakeholders shouldn't it mean guides, captains and business owners directly effected by the changes and issues brought to the board?  If not, and two guys are on the board that the issues do not directly effect financially (ie. a business), that is wrong and should be changed.  

I didn't realize the agency had been renamed the Department of Economic Conservation.  I pay the same amount for a license to fish that you do.  You also buy a license from the Federal Government to operate a livery service.  I know and speak for lots of businesses that rely on the tributary fishery as well, so I am certainly a stakeholder.

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 8:27 PM, Gill-T said:

let me get this straight......neither you or King Davy are guides??  So who are you representing in the reported so called “secret” meetings with fisheries?  If you claim to be representing the common folk river angler in your quest for Atlantic Salmon for-all, who elected you guys to the position?

I think Dave has had a captains license, I know that his wife has a guides license.  I introduced a few people like Francis Betters, the Adirondack fly tying guru, and Tom Rosenbaur, vice president of Orvis, to the Tributaries, but that was back before Fran Verdoliva got his job with the State.  I realized that I could either guide or fish, and decided that I would rather fish and keep the day job, and then maybe get my license when I retired, but I don't have the energy to walk someone else all over the place all day, so when I can get away, I just fish.

I believe Steve LaPan has explained the various stakeholder groups on numerous occasions at SOL and SOR meetings.  He picked people who he, or other staff at DEC, knew from prior involvement with the fishery.  I go back to before the first stocking cuts ( you must remember the Jolliff Paper, I still have a copy). As I worked in Environmental Science, I was often a resource to the Fisheries Advisory Board, of which I am now an at large member.  Bill Abraham tapped me to facilitate at the Fisheries Congress (and when was there any "election" to the representation for that, Region 8 reps were all from the Charter Industry or government, no tributary anglers, although Regions 7 and 9 sent some). I often suspected to keep me from criticizing it, and I met Jerry Barnhardt and I think Steve Hurst through that function.  I have sent written comments on most proposals and management actions for over 30 years.  So I guess I have demonstrated a knowledge of the science and the data of the fishery, a willingness to listen to intelligent commentary, I have a track record of concern for the tributaries; in short I walk the walk, instead of just talking the talk.  It was my understanding that I was asked to be on the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission Stakeholder panel because of my background in science and involvement in the fishery and the lake from outside the DEC.  It is my sense from seeing the makeup of the  group that I was the US counterpart to Jon Johnson, a very brilliant Canadian Scientist I met in many other contexts ( Stormwater, Blue Green Algae and Cladophora, type E Botulism, etc) on the panel.  The " Secret" hatchery meeting was a one shot.  I am not on any group that has met in less than a year, maybe it's two, other than MCFAB.  But if you are worried about the GLFC panel, such illustrious Lake Personalities as Bob Songin, Vince Perlioni, and Jerry Ferluca do a great job of representing the "fill the box" crowd, and they were not elected, and I think all three serve on other stakeholder groups, so it is not like I am getting inordinate opportunity to influence decisions.

As to the Atlantic Salmon, I stopped lobbying for a major Atlantic program for the lake back when Carl Widmer was still running the show down here and they tried and failed to get them established in Irondequoit Creek, but I didn't argue against it, especially if it is the Feds who are doing it and paying for it.  And Jim Johnson was another of the great scientists I was privileged to meet and work alongside during my career. 

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 4:29 PM, Frogger said:

Grief is one thing, trespassing ticket is another.


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The League club prosecutes trespassers religiously, and maintains a security staff to patrol their property.

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 6:26 AM, Sk8man said:

I guess in following this thread I find myself wondering 'Unless you are coming from New Mexico, Nevada or the Dakotas etc.to salmon fish for the first time why mess with the Salmon River at all when there are so many other good places to fish in New York State and fishing for the "zombies" has never seemed real attractive anyway?" It just seems that things have gotten so complicated and paying to stream fish seems to  really detract from the "sporting" aspect of it all. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion but I couldn't resist

There are really no other tributaries that offer the same morphology, although Oak Orchard and The Sandies up north come close, especially for swinging flies.  The Niagara is overwhelming, the Genesee and the Oswego are very large and also urban, the smaller tributaries are smaller.  The Salmon is "just right"!   I have spots that are closer, but I will still make sure I get up to Pulaski for at least a couple of days this fall, unless the emperor declares everything closed again.