NYS Conservationist Magazine, April/May 2025 Issue: "Atlantic Salmon's COME BACK in Lake Ontario"

[salmoseine]

https://cloud.3dissue.com/129417/129610/151833/NYSConsAprMay25/index.html    Page 7

[HB2]

This post is very timely 

 

I was at  Sandy at my cottage yesterday to take a few cast and looked down at the launch and saw the stocking truck finishing up and pull away . About 20 min later I saw a bunch  of schools of what looked to be Atlantic's  4 to 5 " swimming by . None hit my jigs . 

 

Also saw the shocking boat doing the creek twice last fall  . Asked the guys what they were doing . They said they were looking for Atlantic's . They got very few . 

Edited April 11 by HB2

[GAMBLER]

Atlantic catch rates on the rise?   I did catch two last year compared to one the season before.  Over the years the Atlantic population seems cyclical.  2006 we caught 16 Atlantics, 2007 we caught 12 and the following year we caught 1.  Every year we catch way more coho than Atlantics even though Atlantics are stocked in much great numbers. NY stocks about the same amount of each species yet Canada stocks way more Atlantics (400,000) in the lake than coho (80,000).  

[Gator]

Agreed. Maybe we aren't targeting them appropriately, but they're a unicorn for us. We caught 3 1/2 last year.
 

[rolmops]

Putting them in the streams and the lake without proper preparation will not make them come back

If we want them to succeed we need to try and convince landowners along the creeks to plant shade giving and erosion preventing trees. Also there need to be projects to remove sediment from creek bottoms and weirs to create fast currents that make deep holes. These weirs should be accessible to equipment that can remove sediment. Once there are deep cool holes in the creeks the atlantics stand a chance to survive . There also is the issue of the Oswego River which for some reason unbeknownst to me has dams in it that make it impossible for fish to migrate. If fish could freely migrate between Fingerlakes and Lake Ontario, the atlantics would probably do a lot better.

Edited April 11 by rolmops

[Traveling Circus]

16,000 fingerling atlantics were stocked at the launch the other day. we boated one 22” atlantic out front today.

[GAMBLER]

2 hours ago, rolmops said:

Putting them in the streams and the lake without proper preparation will not make them come back

If we want them to succeed we need to try and convince landowners along the creeks to plant shade giving and erosion preventing trees. Also there need to be projects to remove sediment from creek bottoms and weirs to create fast currents that make deep holes. These weirs should be accessible to equipment that can remove sediment. Once there are deep cool holes in the creeks the atlantics stand a chance to survive . There also is the issue of the Oswego River which for some reason unbeknownst to me has dams in it that make it impossible for fish to migrate. If fish could freely migrate between Fingerlakes and Lake Ontario, the atlantics would probably do a lot better.

If Atlantics have an alewife diet, they will not do great.  There have been studies done on this.  The thiamine deficiency causes mortality in adults.  Why don’t we see big Atlantics often?  This is the reason.  Yes proper stocking practices will help survival rate of stockers, but it will do nothing to help mortality rates due to thiamine deficiency from an alewife diet.  Until alewife disappear from Lake Ontario, Atlantics will suffer.  

[Legacy]

3 hours ago, Traveling Circus said:

16,000 fingerling atlantics were stocked at the launch the other day. we boated one 22” atlantic out front today.

 

Actually 50000+ total were stocked at sandy last week 50320 to be exact

 

2024 – 53K

2023 – 38K

2022 – 19K

2021 – 39K

[Traveling Circus]

The guy at the truck said 16,000. 

The more the merrier.

[HB2]

Which explains all the corrmerats I'm seeing this morning 

[GAMBLER]

1 hour ago, HB2 said:

Which explains all the corrmerats I'm seeing this morning 

I was hoping bird flu took care of them….

[LongLine]

That was only one delivery.  

Looking at the 2023 LO annual report, there were 4 stocking sites with each getting about 50,000 yrlgs.  Those each 50,000 came from 2 different hatcheries. The Wright River in Vermont (WR) and Adirondack in NY. (AD)

 

Within those 2 hatcheries (WR & AD), there were 3 strains delivered over a 6 week period. WR had a hatchery stock from Little Clear in Maine (Sebago - designated SEB) and USF&W developed a new "low tolerant Thiamine" strain (SEB-TT) there.   AD yrlgs were from their hatchery stock of SEB. (Designated NSB).  NSB was not marked. The others were PBT (parentage based genetic tagged- i.e DNA recorded)

 

Delivery quantities varied between 11,000 and 20,000 at a time.  Each site received all 3 strains, at different times each. Overall deliveries to all four sites were NSB - 53,000; SEB - 87,000; SEB-TT - 53,000.  Sandy had 3 deliveries. 

 

Given only 16K in that delivery then keep your eyes open as there will be more deliveries. And hopefully the SEB-TT strain.
 

[King Davy]

That is my wife Lindsay is the angler in the picture. We’ve caught several Atlantic Salmon in the tribs and have been providing data to Mike Connerton at Cape Vincent research station for DEC. And now working with Stacy Furgal with Sea Grant on salmon restoration activities.

 

The Lake Ontario fish the last couple years have come from the Vermont hatchery but according to DEC this is the last year of that supply chain. In a meeting with Hurst last Sept he told our TU group that the Feds price per fish wasn’t in their budget. I may be wrong but up to this point we only achieved 150k smolts when the ultimate target was 200 to 250k. 
 

the Adirondak hatchey had been the primary supplier of Atlantic Salmon to both LO and the finger lakes. They don’t have the capacity to raise the LO stockings to the aforementioned target. As mentioned catch rates are up on both the lake and tribs. But that momentum will fizzle out if we can’t reach target goals.

 

We’ve been working with region 8 to look at successful natural reproduction of both brown trout and steelhead in Irondequoit creek. Last year helping them electro shock several sites in Irondequoit from Penfield to Fishers we found highly sustainable schools of wild brown trout. Stakeholders have been asking DEC to consider Irondequoit as a salmon stocking site again along with south sandy, the salmon river, Sandy in Region 8 and the Oak. While natural repo surely won’t create a sustainable sport fishery we could actually achieve the beginning of wild Atlantic Salmon in a south shore stream since the early 1800’s. 

 

Lots of Atlantic salmon being caught from Oswego to Henderson this spring. Suggesting the Salmon River and South Sandy stockings are starting to have an impact on the lake fishery. But most of that success stems from the increased stockings. Hopefully DEC can find an avenue to maintain the current stocking levels and reach their over all goal of 200k plus.

[LongLine]

Davy - Any word back from Mike as to whether they were SEB-TT strain?  (WR supplied both SEB and SEB-TT) Also did any of the Atlantics that you saw have lamprey marks on them?

 

It's my understanding that Atlantics were also going to come from Eisenhower National Hatery this year. (also in Vermont)

 

There was a fear that stocking Irond' Creek would have a very low probability of sucess due to them having to traverse the bay which was thought to have too many predators.  I.E. Bass, Walleye, Pike and Comorrants. 

[King Davy]

I don’t think Mike C has enough data yet to make a call in the strains. Sebago’s have been successful and yet TBD on the TT. What many people don’t understand about Atlantic salmon is their temperature tolerance is in the high 70’s. The Bay is deep enough for thermal relief for them to get into the stream and like their pacific cousins can swim from the lake to Penfield or even higher in a day.

 

our Seth Geeen TU group is now  working with the towns and the county parks in a “wood is good” program to leave woody debris in the creek. Irondequoit has more canopy and more spring leakage than any other stream in our area. Our TU group will also be doing a thermal relief study in the dead of summer to find these high concentrations of thermal breaks in the stream thus helping up identify opportunities for rehabbing the stream to improve spawning habitat.

This is the last year DEC is stocking brown trout in the upper reaches of Irondequoit creek. We work with them to not put stocked fish over wild and we’ve found a nice healthy population of wild trout from Penfield to Fishers.

 

[rolmops]

4 minutes ago, King Davy said:

I don’t think Mike C has enough data yet to make a call in the strains. Sebago’s have been successful and yet TBD on the TT. What many people don’t understand about Atlantic salmon is their temperature tolerance is in the high 70’s. The Bay is deep enough for thermal relief for them to get into the stream and like their pacific cousins can swim from the lake to Penfield or even higher in a day.

 

our Seth Geeen TU group is now  working with the towns and the county parks in a “wood is good” program to leave woody debris in the creek. Irondequoit has more canopy and more spring leakage than any other stream in our area. Our TU group will also be doing a thermal relief study in the dead of summer to find these high concentrations of thermal breaks in the stream thus helping up identify opportunities for rehabbing the stream to improve spawning habitat.

This is the last year DEC is stocking brown trout in the upper reaches of Irondequoit creek. We work with them to not put stocked fish over wild and we’ve found a nice healthy population of wild trout from Penfield to Fishers.

 

That is great news. Just please, please make sure you copyright that info so it won't end up in some fly fishing magazine. Because then these sportsman will descent on above mentioned creek and empty it out in no time.

[King Davy]

I don’t know a single fly angler who would kill an Atlantic salmon in a river. 

[LongLine]

Not for or against it but have many questions:

1. yes temp tolerance 76-77F or so but what about the north flats of I-bay.  Will they cross that large section that is only 5-6 ft deep? It gets pretty warm there, before the drop-off.

2. yes I-bay has temp relief in the deep area but does it have the oxygen content below 20 ft? That deep section is not very long proportionally to the lenght of the bay.

3. Won't bay boaters have an issue with "wood is good"?  Recreational or fishing. I don't know any that want more debris in the water.

[HB2]

You know Im really at my limit about this stream thing and anglers taking everything they catch . 

 

I've done about 8 trips to steelhead streams  this year and have done very well . I've seen other guys catch fish also . In all the trips and fish I've caught and seen others catch , not one person I have seen put a fish on a stringer . 

[King Davy]

Longline we are talking about way up in the natel areas of Irondequoit. Not anywhere near the bay. And we all agree if a downed tree is a navigation hazard up in pittsford or East Rochester or Penfield it’s needs to be moved but not necessarily removed. 
 

There are solid populations of wild trout up there. South sandy is now a place they stock salmon again. Back in the 90’s when they stocked there they had to swim a warm estuary and Sandy ponds and we caught salmon up to 20 pounds in June and July.

 

So this year DEC because they have no room in any of their hatcheries are providing 4k Atlantic salmon to the powder mill hatchery to raise and release as a first step. I haven’t been by there yet to see if they have them. Not sure if they are federal fish or from the state hatchery in the Adirondaks.

 

And now Sea Grant has taken up the work on Atlantic Salmon as they  have sturgeon and other native species in the Great Lakes.

[King Davy]

HB2 other than the fall salmon crowd I have yet to see a steelhead on a stringer in any of the waters I fish from Maxwell to the Erie tribs.  AND I’m out there several times a week from fall through May. And I would hope the inshore lake trollers are enjoying the crazy good brown trout fishery. I’m sure impacted by the one brown trout limit from three years ago. 
 

I personally would never be a C&R only angler.  I grew up in a hunting fishing trapping family and would always fight to preserve the Heritage of hunting and fishing where you get to choose to harvest your catch as long as it’s within the law. I don’t kill trout or salmon cause I don’t care for the taste of them and so as I was taught by my grandfather and father you don’t kill what you don’t intend to eat.

 

once the salmon crowd moves on there is a whole different class of angler shows up. Lots of them for sure but way more are actually fishing then what you may witness from September to Columbus Day.

[King Davy]

As far as naming bodies of water in publication I’ve written and published two books on Lindsay’s and my adventures and several chapters are on rivers near by and none have been named. Of course fishing rivers in Alaska, Northern Canada and out west like the Kenai, Naknek, Skeena Madison etc aren’t much of a secret.

 

 

[King Davy]

Longline I realize I didn’t address your other questions from before. So here is my take. Chinook salmon,  lake browns and steelhead all swim through those same waters. Why wouldn’t you think an Atlantic Salmon wouldn’t couldn’t make the same trek? Those bay waters are warm when the other species enter and they don’t nearly have except brown trout the tolerance to warmer waters as Atlantic Salmon.

 

Probably the greatest testament to Irondequoit as a true natel south shore stream is the wild steelhead found up river in cool areas. Like Atlantic Salmon they spend over a year in a river before migrating to open water. You can find these juveniles all summer long eating bugs up there. Now how many make it to the lake  and return as an adult is of course unknown. But the fact that they survive to smolt to where they will migrate northward to open Lake Ontario is a reality.

[LongLine]

It's great that wild Browns can be found in the creek. Browns & Rainbows are basically homebodies compared to all the salmon.  Browns can thrive in almost any water which is why they were introduced to the US years ago. Murky, low oxygen, some pollution, somewhat brackish, etc. Not saying the creek is that way, but the Bay is.  The only time Salmon don't care about water conditions is at spawning time. 

 

I don't doubt that salmon will make the trek upstream as some Kings have even been seen in road culverts out Hilton way. I only question whether Atlantic's will make the trek out to the lake in appreciable numbers.  At all the historical LO stocking sites, freshly stocked fish have a relatively unobstructed path to the wide-open lake.  I-Bay is a big obstruction. Salmon need oxygen, more so than other species.

 

I-Bay is a long fairly narrow bay, oriented North-South. Prevailing west winds don't stir it up like other embayments. Its topography, with that deep spot, sharp drop-off and the northern flats greatly increases its retention time.  Years ago, they treated the water to try to get pollution to settle to the bottom.  They also ran a "bubbler" south of the bridge to put oxygen into the waters as it was considered "dead water" below 15 ft from the surface. I.E. it's prone to stagnation.  It's a great habitat for sheepshead (drums) of which many get "huge." 

 

In addition to the physical, as already mentioned, there are many predators. Along with the Bass & Pike, DEC has been stocking Walleyes in there for quite a while.  (Unknown how they're doing as Walleye fishermen are known for being tight-lip'd)

 

As the initial article is about Atlantic restoration in Lake Ontario, the more I think about it (and as you said there may be a shortfall in stocking) they should stick with the original 4 sites.  IMO, DEC should evaluate survival in the lake first, then evaluate Nat. Repro at those sites second, and then look at other stocking sites. 
 

[King Davy]

So the target was to Bring Atlantic Salmon stocking up to 250k. They’ve fallen short of that target by 100k. Now in 2026 with the  federal hatcheries out of play and DEC ended their relationship with Tunison at Cornell I don’t think they will reach this ultimate goal. DEC’s focus has been to establish an Atlantic Salmon sport fishery over a wild stock and they’ve been relatively successful. 
 

I saw a report from a charter capt. who caught 7 atlantics today up to 15 pounds. This big fish jumped 7 times and screamed all over the lake. Many are caught in the fall right through winter in our local tributaries. Lindsay and I have landed several this year and last and collected data for Mike C. 
 

I think the effort is two fold. 1 continue to improving Atlantic Salmon as a sport fishery and if they can get enough fish work on a restoration project. I no longer sit on the stakeholder group (did from 2000-2022) but what I know is they won’t switch stocking Atlantic Salmon to Irondequoit and stop at the Oak. Sandy, South Sandy and the Salmon river.

 

DEC is heavily involved with cold water conservation groups like TU to restore native species all over the state. Notably Brook trout in the Adirondack’s Catskills and Tug Hill. In a couple weeks TU and several other organizations are on a huge project to put up new regulation signage on 400 ponds in the ADK’s as we partner to restore wild Brook trout to all these ponds. So in conjunction with several organizations we have 100’s of efforts going on in the state to bolster wild fish.

 

Back in the 80’s when they did stock Atlantics in Irondequoit we did have fish return in the summer and I caught some. They were magnificent. But back then total stocking was 50 or 60k total throughout the whole lake. We wouldn’t have the pacific fishery we have if it wasn’t for natural reproduction. But chinooks have a huge advantage of only needing to be in a stream for a few months after hatching. 
 

Bottom line DEC and many federal groups, USF&W, USGS, and Sea Grant along with organizations like stakeholder lake and trib groups are working on maintaining what we have and doing the work and research to bring back what we used to have even on a smaller scale.

 

.