Braided line and 100% Fluorcarbon

[Speedy]

Today was opening day here in Vermont for Trout and Salmon (other than Champlain).  Understanding this time of year the run-off can be extra strong. I have had success fishing the Salmon River/Pulaski,NY using good brand mono filament, catching steel heads, in really fast water.

 

Someone please explain the real "Why" use braid, (not because it is a personal favorite) but some facts. I understand using a leader to make the presentation less visible. I'm told that the new 100% Fluorcarbon line is thinner and stronger than thicker test versions of mono. If it is that much better than why not just use 100% Fluorcarbon. Or 100% good brand mono.

Today I snapped off at least 10 rigs, for the first time using 10lb Seaguar 100% Fluorcarbon. Cold fingers in the 34 degree rain, tying on new rigs made me think of better days. LOL 

This was on spinning outfits, but I have braid/fluor on my trolling bait casting reels and wonder why?

Thanks for your advice.

Speedy

[rolmops]

 Neither braid nor fluorocarbon has any stretch at all. You must take that into consideration 

[LongLine]

The fish generates the most shock on its initial hit.  When stream fishing that shock must be absorbed by the line and near instantly the rod. Line stretch plays an important part of absorbing it. When trolling with a rigger (or planner/dipsey) there are 2 components to the line that have to go tight which help absorb it before the rod takes over.  For a rigger there is a vertical and a horizontal component. There is some absorption as the vertical becomes part of the horizontal.  (Resistance of the water on the line)
 

You'd have the same situation from a boat, as in a stream. if your ran a clean line less than 25-30 ft off the back of the boat, especially in the cold.  Chances of a break-of are also greater with a short rod.  Most rigger rods are 6 1/2 - 8 ft long. 
 

[Speedy]

Thanks guys, but that really doesn't answer my basic question. Is the NEW Fluorcarbon really that much better than mono or is it a lot of advertising hype. Sorry to say it wasn't fish breaking my line, but little split shot snags. Got down to using zero weights, just the salmon eggs on a S.S hook and still snapped off when bouncing on the bottom.  Again the comparative cost of the braid plus 100% Fluorcarbon compared to a good brand mono and the performance of the combo is questioned. Hate to loose several new lures with several lines out of the boat, plus the special care of using special knots to connect the two. I don't have any real experience to lean on, so I respect you Captains who have done this for many years advise.  I have all my 8 bait casters all spooled up with braid and Flor. leaders but now a little Gun Shy.

Thanks,

Tight Lines

Speedy

[rolmops]

The fluorocarbon cannot be used with split shot. When you squeeze down with your pliers you damage it. Mono can be squeezed without ill side effects because it will just stretch where you squeeze. 

Full disclosure: I often use slightly heavier fluorocarbon and also a thinner mono instead of the high end fluorocarbon. Also, I am just a weekend warrior  and not a captain by a long stretch.

As for braid. It is great for casting because the strength/ diameter balance makes it great for casting a thinner stronger line with less resistance.

 

[Speedy]

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that my spinning reel was filled with 100% Fluor. on a 8ft. graphite Salmon rod I use for steel head fishing. The breaks were either inches above the split shot or down above the hook. My gut feeling is the temperature. Mono is more flexible and has more stretch than the Fluor.  I'll bet it got stiff in lower temps. Air and water were in the 30s. Didn't stretch but snapped. Still thinking I might be safer to strip off all the braid with Fluro. leaders off my boats bait casters and refill with just good mono and not worry about loosing dozens of lures.

Jury still out.

Speedy

[LongLine]

"New" to you doesn't mean its "fresh" line.  Mono, flouro and Co-poly all deteriorate over time, dryness & exposure to sunlight.  I've bought line that was worthless right out of the packaging.  Retailer may have had it in stock from last season.  I always test line before using it by placing a strand between my thumb and 1st finger.  Then, squeezing it, pull about 18 inches through.  If there's any white powdery residue on my finger....it's worthless. That's "plasticizer" coming out of it and the line will be brittle and have no scratch resistance.. 

[spoonfed-1]

LOL. I just read this post.

Set your drag correctly. Good quality fluorocarbon leaders in relativity clear water will get you a couple more bites.

[LongLine]

So where do you set your drag for "no-fish" break-offs? 

[Speedy]

Thanks for the tips on Fluorcarbon. Might have been new/OLD stock via internet warehouses. Also I did notice that the line felt a little lumpy/slight different feel in smoothness when drawn between my fingers. I pulled off at least 10 yards to test and all the same. Figured that was just the way this new stuff should feel. Cut off that first couple yards and went on to spool the line on my spinning reels thru damp cloth and measured off and attached several leaders for my down-rigger /braided lines.

Not casting with the braid, only on my bait-caster/line metered reels. I used  several yards of Backing, then the Braid, then the fluro Leader. Manufacture's ads claim braid is stronger and thinner and doesn't stretch.  20 lb test is 20 lbs test, and isn't a little stretch Ok...to reduce the shock of a hard hit? When the rod is sitting in the down-rigger and gets a release there is always a few seconds before you can grab that rod and crank right? Rookie here so please explain.

 

I have a 19 ft Sea Nymph set up with four down-riggers (two electric two manual), two Lowrance units (7 & 5) and a Fish Hawk, and no first mate, just my wife. So we are learning. Don't want to end up like a circus and kill the fun out of fishing for her,while spending too much time re-trying several lines all day. Started with just the two electric but added sliders (so 4 lines). I might try an experiment by removing the braid off two reels and spooling one with 100% Fluorcarbon and the other with 100% mono and test the results. Don't know if I don't ask. Thanks

Speedy

[LongLine]

If the fluoro felt lumpy, it's because its sat on the original spool to long. It could have been spooled too tight but was exposed to bad atmospheric conditions.  i.e. age, dried out, heat, sunlight, etc.  It should be as smooth as mono.  

 

Braid doesn't have enough stretch to say so. Fluoro has very little stretch and mono stretches quite a bit. Fluoro is more brittle than mono and doesn't have the notch strength as the others. I would never rigger or planner troll with a full spool of Fluoro, even using pinch-pad releases. Braid will survive almost any release. Mono may kink a little, especially with Black's releases and with light mono that kinking should be removed after every fish. 

 

Some guys fish Braid on their riggers with a mono leader, but when the salmon move out, they quickly learn that fleas love Braid and are a royal pain to remove.  Most use a heavy Mono. (30 Lb +) with a leader. That mono will stretch but after a few hours if 30 Lb becomes 25 Lb...who cares? 

 

Some tips: (1) If you use a light mono leader then cut off 3-4 ft after every fish and re-tie.  (2) Use drug-store type nail clippers to cut line. (I use Palomar knots to lure as you can tie them quickly, even with frozen fingers)

 

As to your question: yes, some stretch is good. There may be a few seconds.  If the rod was bent correctly, it will set the hook.  Just make sure when reeling in the fish, you keep that rod bent. 
 

[Speedy]

Thanks LongLine,

I used to own/started Stowe Mountain Sports in Stowe, VT 30 years ago, sold a lot of fishing equipment; before new design braid, Flouorcarbon and Windows 10, was invented. LOL. Never too old to learn. BUT when I look at the many videos on YouTube 100% of the fishermen swear by the braid and flouro combo as the greatest invention since sliced bread. I understand the stated advantages of the braid, but there is also negative ones too, including costs and sea fleas sticking to it. Also the problem of attaching the braided line to a much thinner leader with a special knot (several types) that may get stuck in the top eyelet of the rod, or connection- break or just a pain. How bad is just using a good quality mono and tie on the lure? I have made a collection of many lures, spoons,etc and try to match the hatch with color,size, profile,etc. BUT. Oct 31 was our last day for trout and salmon in VT (except Champlain). Some guy was just leaving a spot on the Clyde River,noted for salmon and handed me his bait. Night crawlers. I smiled and tied on a simple bait-holder hook, size 8.  I caught 2 salmon in 5 minutes using a half of a worm. They are just fish, and all fish eat worms. Are we "Over-thinking" all this special tackle, lines, leaders, etc.  I have 15 nice lake here in the North-East Kingdom area of Vermont, some are over 300 ft. deep and ice cold. Lake Champlain has the most Salmon and Lakers but is a 2 1/2 hour tow for me one way. That's 5 hours of daylight not fishing, so I am trying to Fish Smarter. LOL Thank you and all the guys for the advice. "Ya Got to Hook em to Cook em".

Speedy (78 years old and still having fun)

 

[LongLine]

I've found that attaching a heavy line directly to a spoon will reduce its wobble quite a bit.  Also, while trolling, that tying any heavy line to a light line can be problematic, braid or mono, especially as I mostly fish solo. (Driving the boat, watching other rod, looking out for other boats, debris, watching temp, speed, fishfinder, trying to drink coffee, etc) 

 

From my years on the Big-O I've observed that the 3-4 ft of line closest to the lure takes the most "beating." On my riggers, I use Co-poly as a main line (unfortunately expensive. It has a little stretch but nothing like mono) and took a lesson from using keel sinkers on long lines and planners. I.E. The leader does not have to be long.  I use 5-6 ft leaders.  But I tie a bead chain (with rings) on my main line, then a snap swivel on both ends of the leader. Having a 1/2 dozen leaders pre-made, it only takes seconds to change leaders and I don't have to tie anything on the water. Using 7 1/2 ft rods, there's no need to reel the bead into the eyelets. 

 

Some guys will say "but that adds more knots and hardware."  To each his own. I've never had that extra hardware nor Palomars break. I think they help keep "crap" off the lure and who knows...maybe a salmon thinks the spoon is following something. 

 

Good luck out there.
 

[Speedy]

Thanks...Good advice.  Never used bead chains. Don't they have a fin shaped weight in the middle. What size?

Speedy

[LongLine]

You're thinking keel sinkers that have bead chains on both ends of a weight.  (weights come in all sizes)  Keels are used on longlines and off planer boards, like torpedo sinkers although some may use them on the bottom line of a stacked downrigger.  I use the single bead chain that has a ring on each end.  These are used by guys that mold keel sinkers and can be bought from Jans netcraft, Barlows, etc.  You can find them on ebay too but make sure they have a ring on each end.  I like the 35 Lb which I think is #2. 

[Speedy]

Thanks..You are the best.

[GAMBLER]

On 4/13/2025 at 2:07 PM, Speedy said:

Thanks guys, but that really doesn't answer my basic question. Is the NEW Fluorcarbon really that much better than mono or is it a lot of advertising hype. Sorry to say it wasn't fish breaking my line, but little split shot snags. Got down to using zero weights, just the salmon eggs on a S.S hook and still snapped off when bouncing on the bottom.  Again the comparative cost of the braid plus 100% Fluorcarbon compared to a good brand mono and the performance of the combo is questioned. Hate to loose several new lures with several lines out of the boat, plus the special care of using special knots to connect the two. I don't have any real experience to lean on, so I respect you Captains who have done this for many years advise.  I have all my 8 bait casters all spooled up with braid and Flor. leaders but now a little Gun Shy.

Thanks,

Tight Lines

Speedy

Quality florocarbon is more abrasion resistant than mono.  It you are casting, braid is thinner and you get further casts.  also with casting, you get less loops and line twists.   If you are jigging, braid has more feel.