Very Timely

[HB2]

So I go out and take a few cast . 

 

I look down and see the DEC survey boat launch and head down to the mouth . I can see the whitecaps and hear the waves crashing on the beach . Wind is bad . Nobody in their right mind is out there today . Are they really expecting any boats to interview today if that's why they are hear  ? 

 

So 2 guys , a truck to pull it from where ,Avon , and a boat . 

 

You want to know why we are broke as a state and nation ,stuff like this is why.  

 

Some serious leadership issues to let this happen. 

 

Like I said , get rid of this survey  deal and put an app on your phone . 

 

 

Edited April 27 by HB2

[Gator]

Great idea!! With an app, they could survey a broader area. They’d have to calculate participation somehow.

 

Back when I worked fisheries for Cornell in the ADK, I know they made us do stuff on the same day and place as previous years so they could compare with historical records. Maybe that’s why the guys are there? Agree it seems nonsensical at face value, but there’s likely some rationale, weak though it may be

[LongLine]

For any objective lake-wide survey to have accuracy, it must be taken at random times at random locations.  This randomness schedule must be determined before the survey is taken or it will be biased.  For example, a survey asking about year-long lake wide bass fishing effort would be meaningless if only bass fishermen were interviewed only during their bass tournament. 

 

Obviously, Sandy at that time, was chosen well in advance of setting up the survey.  (probably months) A recent survey report specifically noted that fall boat fishing effort was down as multiple stormy conditions prevented fishermen from venturing out.  This stormy event would be noted in this year's data.

 

The south shore is a pretty large area, and we all know that fishing conditions can be very different at different ports at the same time.  There can be 4 ft waves at Sandy where nobody can get out yet at the same time it can be perfectly calm just east of the Genny where there may be 15 boats fishing the nearshore. The surveyors can't move to the Genny as it would break the predetermined randomness time and location protocols for a lake-wide survey.  

 

Historically the prey fish assessment was conducted at set locations however a few years back some random trawls were added.  It was acknowledged that alewives can move somewhat E_W and not just N-S. It made the numbers much more representative of the population.

 

A problem with app reporting may be having faith in the data.  Will a guy that spends all day but gets skunked report?  Will a guy who has caught over his limit report?  Will a "rag-boater" report on fishing?  If only charters report, will it drive stocking numbers downward?  There's a lot more to in-person data collection and statistical protocol than meets the eye. 

 

Of course, they could have more surveyors at more locations at the same time, but oh boy! would some complain about costs then! 

 

 

[HB2]

2 hours ago, LongLine said:

For any objective lake-wide survey to have accuracy, it must be taken at random times at random locations.  This randomness schedule must be determined before the survey is taken or it will be biased.  For example, a survey asking about year-long lake wide bass fishing effort would be meaningless if only bass fishermen were interviewed only during their bass tournament. 

 

Obviously, Sandy at that time, was chosen well in advance of setting up the survey.  (probably months) A recent survey report specifically noted that fall boat fishing effort was down as multiple stormy conditions prevented fishermen from venturing out.  This stormy event would be noted in this year's data.

 

The south shore is a pretty large area, and we all know that fishing conditions can be very different at different ports at the same time.  There can be 4 ft waves at Sandy where nobody can get out yet at the same time it can be perfectly calm just east of the Genny where there may be 15 boats fishing the nearshore. The surveyors can't move to the Genny as it would break the predetermined randomness time and location protocols for a lake-wide survey.  

 

Historically the prey fish assessment was conducted at set locations however a few years back some random trawls were added.  It was acknowledged that alewives can move somewhat E_W and not just N-S. It made the numbers much more representative of the population.

 

A problem with app reporting may be having faith in the data.  Will a guy that spends all day but gets skunked report?  Will a guy who has caught over his limit report?  Will a "rag-boater" report on fishing?  If only charters report, will it drive stocking numbers downward?  There's a lot more to in-person data collection and statistical protocol than meets the eye. 

 

Of course, they could have more surveyors at more locations at the same time, but oh boy! would some complain about costs then! 

 

 

 

Yeah , were screwed . 

[GAMBLER]

If the survey isn't done, and the ding dongs running this state want to know why we spend millions on a fishery, not having this data to show how often the fishery is being used would not be smart.  These guys and gals also take scale samples and measure fish.  

[HB2]

This could all be done with a QR code and an app on your phone and be way more accurate . The survey boats are rarely there , and I have seen many boats , especially charters drive right by . 

 

When you get your license , scan the code, install the app ,  and that's it . State could have a big push to report every first you catch from a LO salmon to a bullhead from West Buttwipe pond .

Maybe have a sign saying " Don't forget to report your catch ".  

 

Maybe post pics of catch . Would be a great database and way more accurate . 

 

And here's a thought , call me crazy, ,if there is small craft advisory with 5 to 7s all day , go to plan B and have those guys do something more productive than sleep and fish , which I've watched them do more than once .  

 

I can't afford to pay my employees to sit around do nothing and the state shouldn't either . 

 

I don't blame the guys in the boat , I blame leadership. 

Edited April 28 by HB2

[Gator]

It sounds like they are doing important work, but not as effectively as could be, and that there may be evolving mechanisms to improve the process that could be explored.

 

I bet we can all get behind that!! Meliora!

[LongLine]

They're fishing?  Ok, easy to solve.  Everyone has to fish out of a certain port on survey day.  Each boat must register on the way out with a designated return time.  1st boat must return at 9:00, 2nd at 9:15, 3rd at 9:30, etc.  That'll keep surveyors busy all day. LOL

 

Boats bypassing the survey boat?  Easy to solve. Have a 2nd DEC boat chase them down.  OR add to GR Lakes regulations that passing them by is illegal.  They can photograph the registration numbers, turn it over to DMV who can mail them a fine. (Like the thruway) LOL 

 

New signs?  Easy to solve.  Just put flashing LEDs on the STOP sign they use. LOL

 

Scan a QR code?  Easy to solve. If you don't have a cell, they can give you one when you get your license and only charge you $2K for the license. Just don't drop it overboard or you'll have to go swimming. Not sure what to do if you bought a lifetime license years ago. LOL  

 

Submit pictures for each fish? Easy to solve. Must be 1200 Mbs max. Fish must be held along a length reference and not be fuzzy.  1st pic to be side view that includes head and tail. 2nd photo to show open mouth. C&R fishing not allowed.  LOL

This site has over 30,00 registered members and is viewed by DEC & USGS personnel for anecdotal experiences.  Yet only approx. 100 post any fishing reports. About 12 post regularly.  There are very few that report shakers or getting skunked, yet they put in effort also.  Very doubtful they would report anything digitally and yet this is important data. There are many who ask: "Is this a Brown or an Atlantic?" 

 

Something that might work though:  For last couple years there have been college students at the Genny launch.  They were studying invasives and checked retrieved trailers/boats for seaweed etc.  Could the DEC contact the colleges doing these intern studies to also survey fishermen?  I think one group was from Brockport and another from Hobart or ESF. Could a DEC rep make the rounds to many sites over a day and collect surveys? or have interns mail them in? If they sleep, fish, read books or work on their suntans between boats...who cares? 

[LongLine]

College is out over the summer (May-Sept)  and kids look for work.  Interns live at all locations across the lake.  What college kid doesn't have a cell phone? Working with a statistical sampling program is a valuable experience for any science major.