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mcny

Leadcore sink rate flatlinning after 50-60' ?

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I have had good luck with my lead  core setup and decided to setup a 15-20 core rig to run deeper. I came across an article saying that after the first 10 the sink rate flat lines because of the resistance. I could not find any other information confirming that to be true or false. Does anyone have experience running lead core deeper or know of any charts that show the sink rates beyond 10 colors? Thanks i

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It makes sense that it bellies out at a point where the weight of the line is overcome by the resistance and the larger the diameter you use the sooner this would occur ...copper wire does it also. The simple solution is to add weight and experiment with it. The other thing is just how long do you think it would take to reel in a decent fish with 20 colors out (you'll have popeye arms afterward)? An even more productive solution would be to switch it over to 30 pound 7strand wire or the newer 19 strand wire....much better control over depth and your presentation as well as the substantial benefit of avoiding the full impact of (coming soon to a place near you) FLEAS. :lol: Good luck.

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So I am clear. You are suggesting running straight wire without a diver? I haven't heard of guys doing that. If that is the case what are the sink rates and why is it better than copper? Thanks.

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you can just add stinger dive bombs to your 10 color.

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I guess first of all leadcore has its place in the "arsenal" but it is a rather limited window of opportunity these days because of the fleas  (and cotton). During the height of the flea season it becomes virtually unusable in most places after early and mid Spring. After the water cools in the Fall it becomes practical once again to use it once the fleas aren't actively present. My suggestion to use wire was based on this fact together with the fact that wire is more flexible in its use to achieve depth. I've used mine with dipseys, cowbells, dodgers, flashers, Spin Docs etc. You have to adjust your setups accordingly (e.g. with cowbells I attach a three way swivel with a fairly heavy sinker at the bottom and fish the bottom in 100-150 ft or so for lakers). I don't run it with boards though although I could set it up for that as well but risk of kinking is there to a degree.  If you are stuck on leadcore I would suggest using inline weights to achieve greater depth or dive bombers etc. to get down a bit further but leadcore is not really DESIGNED for real deep water fishing or bottom fishing it is basically a way to "topline" a little deeper than surface fishing. Also there aren't many reels other than expensive saltwater jobs that would have the capacity for 20 colors...

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I also use add dive bombs or torpedo weights with my lead core and copper set ups to achieve greater depths. It will produce for me when the fish seem to be shut down and I'm marking suspended fish out deep. Just factor the added weight and depth to your sinking line and that should give you and approximate depth of your lure. It's had worked for me when running flasher / fly as well as spoons. This way you'll avoid the need to buy another large capacity reel and additional line and backing. Good luck to you.

Sent from my iPhone

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I would not want to reel in 20 colors. I would add a tropedo divers to it and you can use the charts to give the depth you wish to get to. I don't even own a 10 color just 2s 3s and 5 colors.

Edited by FSNmachine

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I run leadcore for muskies all the time, most of the time my bigger lip crankbaits are pulling down for me.But occasionally I add a gibbs weight of 6 ounces 25 ft up the Leadcore to get inline spinners and small crankbaits down to 35 ft depths with only 4 colors out.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

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I don't think I have EVER seen fleas stick to leadcore or copper. Check out Blood Run Tackle's website for very interesting and informative depth data. It should answer all your questions.

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I have had good luck with my lead  core setup and decided to setup a 15-20 core rig to run deeper. I came across an article saying that after the first 10 the sink rate flat lines because of the resistance. I could not find any other information confirming that to be true or false. Does anyone have experience running lead core deeper or know of any charts that show the sink rates beyond 10 colors? Thanks i

 

There were some depth measurement tests done a couple of weeks ago on 27lb leadcore using a SmartTroll.   All of the different coppers were successfully measured in depth out to 500+ feet of line.   When the leadcore was measured, it failed to produce a reading beyond 10 colors of lead at 2.5gps speed.   The leadcore flatlined out behind the boat and the transducer could no longer communicate with the depth measurement probe.   When reeled back in from 11-20 colors of lead, the readings then began again.

 

The theory, as discussed often by many, is that leadcore suffers from the scuba diver effect, whereas scuba divers must attach heavy lead weights to themselves proportionate to their own body weight, in order to be able to dive down to certain depths and maintain at those depths. Any less weight and the diver rises back up, or fails to reach the desired depth in the first place.

 

Dacron sheath leadcore absorbs water and when working in conjunction with the lead "core" becomes neutral buoyant around 40 feet down, on a straight line troll at 2.5 gps speed.   If you stop, or turn, leadcore will sink eventually to the bottom, albeit slowly.   But under "tow" at trolling speed...37' was the deepest the readings were able to produce no matter how much leadcore was deployed beyond ten colors.

 

We actually tested this theory a number of years ago based upon a similar discussion.   We put out a 20 color and cut across the back of our boat at an estimated 500-600' distance with another boat and regularly "caught" the 20 color with our downrigger....set at 40 feet.

Edited by profishient1

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If you want more depth, scrap the long leadcore and go with a copper. 

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If you want more depth, scrap the long leadcore and go with a copper. 

:yes:

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I have tested the lead core compared to torpedo divers 19 strand for the depth it runs at and they match exactly still testing to be done with the dive bombs or torpedo divers added to them.

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Thanks for all the great info. I did just setup a copper rod with 300' of 60# bloodrun. The charts came out right after I put it together and based on the data I should have stuck with 45# and gone to 450' on the convector 55l to run deeper but now I have an excuse for another purchase. Based on the feedback here I think I will setup 2 wire rigs and use the lead core to respool my existing lead cores.

Seems I am always learning but never getting any smarter!

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We're ALL learning here ...no matter how long we've been at it. The way to keep learning is to ask questions....and experiment. That's what it is all about ...having fun and experimenting. Sounds as though you have a good plan...Good luck and tight lines! :) 

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not sure you can fit 450' of 45#  copper on a CV 55L anyway.  Maybe you can with very minimal backing..... I have 400 on a clarion 553 and that thing is packed full

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not sure you can fit 450' of 45#  copper on a CV 55L anyway.  Maybe you can with very minimal backing..... I have 400 on a clarion 553 and that thing is packed full

 

No problem. On an Okuma Convector 55 or Catalina 553 you can fit 450' of Blood run 45# copper w/ 250' of 50# Blood Run Braid.

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you can just add stinger dive bombs to your 10 color.

 

 

Yep, Dive Bombs or Snap Weights.

Used Snaps Memorial weekend at Wilson, running lead off the boards.

Figured to be about 80 down, and those set-ups we taking as many hits as the riggers I had down at that depth.

Edited by Fish Hunter

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No problem. On an Okuma Convector 55 or Catalina 553 you can fit 450' of Blood run 45# copper w/ 250' of 50# Blood Run Braid.

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There were some depth measurement tests done a couple of weeks ago on 27lb leadcore using a SmartTroll.   All of the different coppers were successfully measured in depth out to 500+ feet of line.   When the leadcore was measured, it failed to produce a reading beyond 10 colors of lead at 2.5gps speed.   The leadcore flatlined out behind the boat and the transducer could no longer communicate with the depth measurement probe.   When reeled back in from 11-20 colors of lead, the readings then began again.

 

The theory, as discussed often by many, is that leadcore suffers from the scuba diver effect, whereas scuba divers must attach heavy lead weights to themselves proportionate to their own body weight, in order to be able to dive down to certain depths and maintain at those depths. Any less weight and the diver rises back up, or fails to reach the desired depth in the first place.

 

Dacron sheath leadcore absorbs water and when working in conjunction with the lead "core" becomes neutral buoyant around 40 feet down, on a straight line troll at 2.5 gps speed.   If you stop, or turn, leadcore will sink eventually to the bottom, albeit slowly.   But under "tow" at trolling speed...37' was the deepest the readings were able to produce no matter how much leadcore was deployed beyond ten colors.

 

We actually tested this theory a number of years ago based upon a similar discussion.   We put out a 20 color and cut across the back of our boat at an estimated 500-600' distance with another boat and regularly "caught" the 20 color with our downrigger....set at 40 feet.

 

Scuba divers need weights because of buoyancy (they have air in their lungs and tanks which is lighter than the water they displace so they float).

 

Lead core would sink to the bottom of the lake at a standstill no matter how much line you let out (thus it's not the "scuba diver effect" or neutral buoyancy). However, when trolling it hits a point where it flat lines under water b/c the resistance of all that line is more than the ability to sink and the lead core line is connected to the boat which acts as a force pulling the line upward, not downward. This is different than the scuba diver situation and neutral buoyancy.

 

A better analogy to the lead core eventually flatlining, is explained when you troll a spoon on the surface using mono line. At 0.1 mph it'll probably troll a few feet underwater. However at 2.5mph it's bouncing on the top of the water. The boat is pulling it upward and the weight of the spoon is overcome by the resistance of the water so it's higher in the water column.

 

This same theory holds true with copper, downriggers and blow back, divers, etc.

 

Just my two pennies,

 

Chris

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