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Help with snelling hooks with fluorocarbon


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So I have a bunch of king flies that I'm cutting down to be coho flies.  I was trying to tie up the leaders and beads.  I'm going with a single 3/0 Mustad hook and 40lb flurocarbon.  Fluocarbon is a bit stiff and I have a hard time snelling hooks with techniques I watched in a few videos.  Anyone have any tips on a better/easier way to snell a hook when you are working with fluorocarbon?

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I have switched from the fluorocarbon back to 40lb. Big Game mono because of break-offs at the fly. The knot strength on fluoro isn't real great and although the stiffness may work for the fly action the stuff is too brittle when it comes to knots. I also think that a little stretch in the mono helps absorb "shock" when larger kings slam the fly. I've changed nearly all my flies back to it.

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The problem I'm having is that the line is hard to wrap around the shank and keep it organized - then trying to go back through the loop without everything coming undone.  Then the few I did, if you push on the tag end the entire thing comes apart.    Maybe Im just using the wrong snell version.  Either way, I think the knot would benefit from a bit of glue when done.

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I have come to hate Flourocarbon. It is brittle ,has half the knot stength & any abrasion   makes it even weaker.

 Only thing I like about it is it sinks, which is good for fly fishing.

 

 Bought some orvis mirage. Went on their site to rate it & all my complaints were confirmed by them.

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I have been using this new Seaguar Fluoro material over the last few months. Have tied 100+ flies and cut bait rigs with it with great success. It is abrasive... So I keep a small dish of olive oil on my tying bench, dip my finger in, and slip the whole length of material between my fingers putting the slightest amount of lube throughout. Knots and snells cinch up nicely without abrasion.

http://www.fishusa.com/Product/Seaguar-STS-Salmon-Fluorocarbon-Leader-Material

**Word of caution** If you're using a fly vice and making dual hook rigs, after tying the rear hook and putting the forward hook in the vice, the rear hook dangles there. Watch your fingers while tying the second hook. Catching a dangling hook point with a finger and feeling the slight prick, your instinct tends to yank away and then it sinks in deeper because the other hook is locked in the vice. Haha luckily this only happened once, but it's not fun to yank it out. Those Owner ST-41's are SHARP!!! My wife had no compassion... She Said "now you know how the fish feels"!

post-151421-13887784406485_thumb.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United mobile app

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There is no better tip then tying leaders with a fly tying vise. Its a great help. Dont short yourself by using mono instead of fluorocarbon. Fluorocarbon has proven itself to be unmatched in its performance and durabilty as leader material. Fluoro may be harder to work with but in the end it will be worth it. Make sure you keep your knots wet. Fluoro has very little short term memory so make sure to keep constant pressure on the line while tying. Choose a quality fluorocarbon line (my top choice would be Blood Run).

 

Another thought is, if your only using a single hook then i would suggest a palomar knot. Unmatched break strength and certainly easier to tie. 

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Durability? I  lost 2 flies & had 2 more  of the trebs break off of 50 # Atomic tourney rigs this year.  I use 40# big game from dipsey to flasher & that NEVER breaks.It's the weak link in the rig as far as I'm concerned.

 

  Flouro might be  best fresh ,but to me takes no abuse ,has no stretch & is not forgiving. I am not sold. I do think it works good for the flies because of the high tensel strength which makes it stiffer & the flasher  whips the fly around better. The invisibility under most conditions is overrated IMO.

 

 Fly fishing, I have lost so many fish  & flies to flouro I am at the point of taking it out of my vest. And it will break anywhere on the tippet. 6 # Maxima UltraGreen breaks Harder than 3x 9.2# or 4X 7# Mirage .I only put it on when I have to.It sinks the fly,it's best attribute to fly fishing IMO.

 

 Bought some  60#  Orvis Super Strong  mono tippet material for $2  on a sale table in Lake Placid that I like.  Should have bought more.

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Check out Fish Doctor's video tips on tying "Tournament Tie" leaders.  I've found this to be one of the easiest methods to use to snell heavy lines .

 

http://www.fishdoctorcharters.com/template.tpl?selector=video

This makes it easy to retie in the boat when there is a nick in the " hot rigs" line.  Wet the flo. when you pull it tight.  Keeps it from heating up with friction when you tighten up the knot.

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The problem is not the material, the problem is the short section of line between hooks on a tournament tie. A short section of stiff line will have no stretch. When pulled over the jaw line over the teeth.....el brake-o. I am using the old school single treble, stacked with

beads + 40 lb Seaguar fluoro and have never had a break-off. The beads probably offer a level of protection on the initial strike and turn because I don't notice any wear or nicks on the leader above the hook. Hook-up ratio has not been effected. Save your fingers, money in

hooks, and your sanity by going with a single treble tied with an improved cinch-knot.

Edited by Gill-T
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  • 3 weeks later...

I run seaguar flouro 50# and tied all but 4 of my leaders. One problem I'm having is finding the little rattles for the leading hook. My lenders looked like Crap when I first started but with a little practice they get better. I also used a traditional Snell knot, because I didn't like how the main line went up the outside of the knot instead of under the wraps.

Anyone know where to find the ones like attomik uses?

I forgot to mention not a single break off.

Sent from my thinking chair...

Edited by Chas0218
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I just bought a 100 yd spool of that new STS Seaguar flourocarbon for roughly $25. I was buying the 25 yard spools of the Blue Label for the same money. I don't know if this is why you guys are breaking off with flouro but Fish Doctor Charters has a vid explaining what he thinks is happening when the line is broken. 

 

http://www.fishdoctorcharters.com/videos/video1F.html

 

I found these rattles at Jannsnetcraft. At 7mm, they're smaller than the beads.

 

http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/skirt-collars-rattles/036010900009.aspx

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My break-offs were with the commercially tied flies that had used fluoro (not going to mention brands but two of them)....I've never had one of the 40 lb Big Game mono ties break that I did myself. I am a firm believer in using whatever works for you regardless of the current popular trend...I use fluoro for some things and mono for others depending on what I find actually works best for my application of the material or tactic etc. Sometimes it pays to swim against the current :lol:

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I stopped using fluoro a long time ago, I've been tying tournament ties on 50 lb big game for years and haven't had any breakage issues.  I think it is because the big game has a decent level of stretch  that fluoro doesn't.

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  • 1 month later...

I tie all my flies with 2 4/0 octopus hooks, works great, no treble hook cut offs . Here is a test to try with fluoro vs mono . Take equal pound test mono and fluoro, Use a 3 foot piece of each. Then saw the line over a square table edge count how many saws it takes to cause the line to abrade to failure then you decide which is best 

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