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Dylan585

Mountain lion

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I used to work for the NYSDEC at the wildlife pathology lab in delmar. We saw all kinds of animals from all over the state. The general opinion at the time of the state wildlife pathologist, and the other biologists, was that no viable population of mountain lions in New York. Any spotted would be an escapee or possibly an animal from out west , like the South Dakota lion.

In my opinion it's quite possible to see an escaped lion, way more people then you think have illegally kept animals, everything from primates, to exotic cats, to whitetails.

Also, I wanted to add that I have seen a 65lb coyote , weighed on a legitimate scale, in person. I have never heard of one larger then 70lbs though.

Wildlife pathology with Ward Stone was one of my favorite classes in college!

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I tink i saw a putty cat,i did idid ,idid see a putty cat..when i was a kid their was a small circus on rt 414 just outa corning and i saw a female lion eat the neighbors chicken the next day it was outside its cage waiting to get back inside ..so i could say i saw a lion in ny..kinda cool

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Please please please! PM me with any experiences with the big cats. Please only serious ones also

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Three different people over as many years saw a mountain lion near or on i-81 between Castle Creek and Whitney point. I saw one dead on the side of the road. I've already described it at length and have no interest in trying to convince anyone. But, if I were putting up cameras, I'd put one near there.  Also, I know many people from California. None have ever seen a mountain lion (except at a zoo). No you wouldn't necessary see them. Cameras should if bait is used to coax one near. Key is for there to be cams where they are  most likely to be. If they are in NY or Pa, there are very few. 

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Dylan, I'll try to look back in some papers from some years ago when I worked with a biologist Daryl J in Region 7. I remember something about something when a group was working on a bear project in the Catskills region back in the 90's. Yea I know a long time ago. Also as Les mentioned the program your in is top notch, Bill, Frank, and Marty were the best.

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Here is one just waiting for a vole to come out of its hole :lol:

post-145411-0-05738900-1416751771_thumb.jpg

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Here's a good example of a real life situation. Even though the mountain lion isn't considered livestock, the attitude would be the same. I'd shot, a lion would be investigated to find out its origin but you won't get in trouble. I saw mention of them being on an endangered list but the Lions that one inhabited the NE are actually on the extinct list or there is strong evidence to put it on the list but as is common, there might be hesitation.

http://www.oneidadispatch.com//general-news/20141124/pair-bag-buffalo-near-munnsville

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Dylan - were you able to get the picture from your friend this past weekend?  Interested in seeing it when you get a chance to post it!

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I seen one walk right through the yard in fisher new york near victor about five year ago. He was tracking some does. That came through earlier. Beautiful big cat tail was as long as he s

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This post is turning into an episode of finding Bigfoot ....we are very close to seeing one but by the shows (or post) end we are left hanging lol

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Wow eatsleeptrout.. Was it that difficult to comment on this post?

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This post is turning into an episode of finding Bigfoot ....we are very close to seeing one but by the shows (or post) end we are left hanging lol

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What you haven't seen big foot! :). He is that big harry guy that takes his mountain lion for walks in the north woods. You know next to the home of the mystical unicorn. LOL

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I used to live in the Catskills. Back in the late 60s early 70s, a lot of eccentric Hollywood stars had summer escapes from NYC around me. One was Gilligan, you know, Bob Denver...well he had a place in Bovina, near Delhi, South Kortright area. He had exotic cats, chimps, lions, cheetahs. He smoked a lot of dope with his hippie friends and sometimes the critters would get loose while playing with the smoked up hippies. But not lately. ..

Cent frum my notso smart fone

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The only mountain lion I have seen in New York is the stuffed one in the new Field and Stream store.

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This was taken in Georgia, Vermont this year by a family member. I realize this post is talking about New York but still that's fairly close.post-152438-14177357859165_thumb.jpg

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What is that picture taken with? I'll tell you right now 100% theres absolutely no way a cougar would be hanging around nonchalantly with a person that close, even close enough to zoom that close and even less so with a flash that bright.

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What you haven't seen big foot! :). He is that big harry guy that takes his mountain lion for walks in the north woods. You know next to the home of the mystical unicorn. LOL

 

Are you talking about Ray K?

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I was riding sleds coming back from  stillwater heading west leading a group of 6 sleds around 1998.  I rounded a corner and no doubt in my sights was a mountain lion /cat. I have seen them before in idaho whitetail hunting, so i was not mistaken. The banks were 6ft plus high and so was the snow. this cat jumped the bank and ran through the snow like it was his job, and it was. Like a idiot i jumped off my sled and try to look at over the next ridge, and well to say i was buried is a understatement. The rest of the group came around the corner and didn't know what to think. I told them and showed them the tracks, and they still weren't sure. Oh well, to this day i know what i saw.

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Well, as promised, here is my thoughts on this subject.

 

 

Critical Thinking-Mountain lions in NY.

 

            Each year in New York State there are reports and stories of mountain lion sightings. Although mountain lions were a native species in New York, they have been extirpated since the early 1900s due to deforestation and population boom. These current sightings are likely to be misidentifications of common New York mammals.

            First, one third of the reported sightings are that of black mountain lions. However, no black cougar has ever been confirmed anywhere in the world. No museums have any black mountain lion hides to examine. A likely explanation for theses sightings could be the misidentification of a common mammal. Several New York mammals could be mistaken as a black mountain lion; the fisher being a very possible scenario. Fishers are dark brown to black in color, have a long tail, and are shaped similar to a cat. However, fishers are not even close to the size of an adult mountain lion. An adult male mountain lion could reach 150 pounds or more and be 6 feet long, whereas a fisher is only going to be around three feet long and around 12 pounds. Other animals that could look like a black mountain lion would be large black dogs, such as a Labrador, or even a large house cat. The size of an animal can be difficult to judge at times, especially when the animal is long way off, in an open field with nothing nearby for comparison, or when the viewer only gets a quick glimpse. Add to this the adrenaline and excitement that would come with such a sighting and it is easy to see how sizes can get overestimated.      

            Next, the number of claims of mountain lions does not cohere with the amount of confirmed sign that is found in New York. On average, a mountain lion takes over 11 million steps in a year. Though not every step is going to leave a perfect footprint in an easy to find spot, if New York has a population of mountain lions there would be plenty of sign available to inspect. The sign they would leave would also be fairly easy to find. In western states, where there are large populations of mountain lions, sign is abundant. Sign in these areas is easier to see than an actual live lion, some people that live in these states have never seen a mountain lion but have seen plenty of sign. Why is then, that mountain lion sightings are more common than sign in New York?  In Lake George, NY, a mountain lion was spotted by a homeowner. Later, tracks were found in their yard, as well as scat, and hairs in a bed where the animal had laid down. Tests concluded that this lion had traveled all the way from South Dakota and passed through New York on its way to Connecticut, where it was struck and killed by a vehicle. This one animal passing through the state left enough track and sign to be inspected, and it was even photographed by one person. If New York had a population of mountain lions, there would surely be enough sign to inspect.

            Furthermore, New York has not produced the carcass of a wild mountain lion to inspect. A cub that had escaped captivity was killed by a hunter who mistook it for a bobcat, but this cannot be used as evidence to support the idea that a population exists. Whether it be struck by a vehicle, killed by a human, or dead by natural causes, if there was a population of mountain lions in New York then there would be bodies to inspect. Though mountain lions prefer to stay in secluded areas, it is nearly impossible for them to avoid all roads. In states with established mountain lion populations road-killed mountain lions are not uncommon. Even in the mountain ranges of New York, there are too many roads for a mountain lion not to be struck by a car. Though it is unlikely a trapper in NY would catch a mountain lion, because most do not use a larger enough trap, it is possible that one would be treed by hunting dogs. New Yorkers hunt raccoons, rabbits, coyotes, and birds with dogs. Though bears cannot be hunted with dogs, hunters can train their dogs on bears during closed seasons. If mountain lions had an established population it is very likely they would be getting treed by these dogs on occasion. In western states, with “huntable†populations, using dogs is the most effective way to hunt mountain lions.

            In conclusion, the continued lack of physical evidence does not support the idea that New York has a population of mountain lions, not even a small population. It is possible that some of these sightings are not misidentifications, but are that of a mountain lion just passing through, like with the case of the Lake George lion. However, there is not the amount of sign here that there would be if a population existed. The vast majority of sightings are just misidentifications of common mammals. I have been a skeptic on this topic for the most part but still had thought that it may have been possible to have a few mountain lions in the remote areas of the Adirondacks or Catskills. After learning what I did from class and research, though, I now find it extremely unlikely. The amount of space one lion, let alone a small population, needs is just not available in New York. Too many roads are not producing road kills and too many trail cameras are out there not picking up photos to show evidence of a population. Mountain lions out west are slowly spreading eastward though, Wisconsin has had confirmed examples of mountain lions. Maybe in the future the mountain lion will return to New York, but as for now, there is just not enough evidence present to prove a population currently exists in New York.

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