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Same story on Lake MI as Lake O


Yankee Troller

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How much longer are we going to continue trying to restore native species i.e. Lakers and Atlantics? I understand the state likes getting the free funds for these fish but at what point do you call the program a fail? 5, 10, 30 years? Natural reproduction is never going to be enough to sustain a viable fishery of these native fish on its own. Despite what we do the ecosystem has changed forever and instead of trying to restore it we should work with it.

Totally agree that stocking a fish that can live 30yrs makes management of a predator/prey relationship difficult. I’m still not buying the fact that we have “too much baitâ€, enough bait, yes, but too much, not so sure. Record high catch rates the past 10 yrs and a declining average size do not add up to a system that has too much bait no matter how you slice it. Also still can’t help think of the 80s when we talk about having too much bait. Lake Ontario will always be more productive than Lake Michigan, but after two years of poor alewife reproduction and now heavy cannibalism by an abundance of adult alewife on the YOY I’m not sure how stocking more Kings will help the current and near term (1-3 yr) situation. The abundance of adult alewife that we have now will be out of the system in two years and then what is going to replace them?

My concern is that if we are not careful we can turn a poor situation in to a disaster like what happened on Huron and Michigan. Certainly stocking more lake trout is not going to help the situation. Stocking more browns and steelhead that have a shorter life span and diversified diet probably would be the better solution…. and are a species many would prefer to catch over lake trout. Don’t get me wrong, I like catching Kings as much as anybody on here but I think given the unknown of what is going to happen with the future adult alewife crop, stocking more Kings at this point could be risky.

And with all the back and forth about what should be done, after a normal or mild winter fishing could be on fire again next Summer and we could chalk this all up to two bad winters that made the fishing difficult. Conversations like this tend to be forgotten after a good season. I personally have experienced much worse seasons than 2015 and really don’t have any major complaints about the fishing. Would have liked to have had more matures and steelhead, but we still caught a ton of fish. I understand that some years are better or worse than others when it comes to catching matures.

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I had a biologist fishing with me for three days this week from tetra tech. This is a company hired from e.p.a. We had to fish in designated ares and catch the fish people take home to eat. I had to bust my butt, but we managed everything he needed to do his studies. The biologist had people in manistee michigan fishing for three days and caught 1 chinook in the last hours of their trip. He also fished huron, and superior  and the u.p. of mich. Nothing but lakers and plenty of them. The captains are fading fast. One port had over 30 boats running, now one. Like i have said in another post, it is time to get the right things done. Strength is in numbers and we will need all we can get. There will be a future meeting with (hopefully) the right people to get some answers.

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We see Pie Charts, Graphs , spread sheets  etc in great detail on every aspect of the fishery & economics. Even saw the amount of bait in LO in metric tons I think. I figure they know more than most think.

 

 There is going to be a spike in out of state licence sales & sales & gas tax the next few months for  trib guys looking to tag a King  Brown  or steelhead. I see figures on how much this bring in to the state.

 

Why would the powers at be risk this ? There must be a reason. 

 

 I am sure fishing guys get into the ears at any chance to the decision makers that fisherman want more kings..They have to know that salmon are what most guys want & come here for. IS SR hatchery at capacity ? Cant cost a whole lot more to  stock more kings all things considered.

 

27 years for the Laker you caught  Gambler  to get to 35 lbs. The winning LOC  35 lb king grew that fast in 4.

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Has been,

It is obvious the government could care less about the Great Lakes fishery. Explain the reasoning behind not stopping the Asian carp from entering the Great Lakes? There is more that could be done but they are not doing anything but putting up an electronic barrier (that has already failed before).

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Has been,

It is obvious the government could care less about the Great Lakes fishery. Explain the reasoning behind not stopping the Asian carp from entering the Great Lakes? There is more that could be done but they are not doing anything but putting up an electronic barrier (that has already failed before).

Brian, what did you tell me.........

silverfoxcharters.net

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Hey Brian,

 

Not to get off topic, but what else are you referring to that could be done to stop Asian Carp? When have we ever really had the means to halt an invasive species? There's probably a bunch of stuff that won't work out there...but what will? That, as I see it, is the core of the problem. You can't keep eggs from attaching to bird's feet and entering that way. Nature always wins.

 

I have some hope, however, since the most recent research suggests that the Great Lakes environment isn't suitable for Asian Carp, as they are evolved toward slowly moving rivers. It would suck to be wrong, though.

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I speculate that with all the transportation of invasives throughout the world that in 100 years similar climates throughout the world will have the same ecosystems. There are already complaints of largemouth bass taking over areas of Asia and Pacific salmon running Atlantic rivers. Typically once an invasive enters a system their population explodes until a predator develops and keeps them in check i.e gobies/sheephead on zebra mussels, trout and bass on gobies, alewifes on spiney water fleas, etc

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Hey Brian,

Not to get off topic, but what else are you referring to that could be done to stop Asian Carp? When have we ever really had the means to halt an invasive species? There's probably a bunch of stuff that won't work out there...but what will? That, as I see it, is the core of the problem. You can't keep eggs from attaching to bird's feet and entering that way. Nature always wins.

I have some hope, however, since the most recent research suggests that the Great Lakes environment isn't suitable for Asian Carp, as they are evolved toward slowly moving rivers. It would suck to be wrong, though.

They have poisoned lakes in the past to get rid of invasive species. It's 2015 we are advanced enough to figure out a way. Weren't there talks about shutting down the Chicago shipping canals that were turned down by the Feds?

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Yeah, I seem to recall that too. Probably cost-benefit analysis. I wish we really were advanced enough to deal with this stuff!! Unfortunately, we can't even stave off antibiotic resistant flesh eating bacteria, and we've had over fifty years of research eating up 100s of millions of dollars suporting the effort. The federal funding level for this kind of stuff is way, way less than that. It would be nice to tap into some of the $$ that BP has allocated for Gulf research as restitution for the spill...those guys are swimming in it. 

 

But even given unlimited funds, my money is still on Mother Nature. Michael Crichton had it right...minus the dinosaurs :rofl:

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 Again, I'm sorry if I'm off topic, but Lake Michigan was in the OP, so in case anybody on LOU gives a rip, here's latest from Michigan DNR about the state of the fishery in a simplified nutshell. Nowhere does it mention competition from lakers in consideration of plantings. But might be mildly interesting....

 

 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/LakeMI-FisheryUpdate-Sept2015-v2_501195_7.pdf?source=govdelivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

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I think you can pretty much give up on Federal Agencies caring about what critters the local sportsmen want in their ecosystems. They have an agenda and your opinion isn't important........ just ask any elk hunter living in Montana, Idaho, or Wyoming what they think about the Federal wolf re-introduction programs. The Feds agenda was to reestablish a native species, regardless of the impact on game populations...... sound familiar?

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 Not to go against the grain  but I can see why some of you guys might be more than a little upset about this king thing. Some of you guys have invest 10's & in some cases 100's of thousands of dollars into pursuing them and built their lives around it. . All anyone has to do is look up & down any port to see the boats & equipment on them .

 

What are you smoking & give me some if you really think that they are going to shut down a shipping channel that transports billions in products & jobs for a  freakin fish. Really?

 

Poison a lake? I was at my ADK happy spot, Mecham Lake,about 8 years back. Saw 6 canoes w/ DEc guys in green shirts at the boat launch. Asked if they were having class. Told my no , they found some invasive plant. 3 years back all weedbeds I fished over were gone & no fish. All the 5-6 # bass and the 20# pike gone also . Hate the fact but maybe they felt like they had to do it. And really , what was their choice?

 

I wonder why the shots are called as they are and by who . Must be a reason. DECis under a lot of pressure to keep a world class fishery out there & keep the money flowing into the state the way I see it but I could be wrong.

 

A law was passed a few years back pushed by a lot of guys on here ( I was against) , and now less fish. Hows that working out for ya?

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Yeah, the 3 rod rule did this.....now I've heard it all. The unbelievable catch rates since its inception has destroyed the salmon. You have to be saying this as a joke.

G#d dam&$t Brian!

silverfoxcharters.net

 

He's not.

You need to consider the source.

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They have poisoned lakes in the past to get rid of invasive species. It's 2015 we are advanced enough to figure out a way. Weren't there talks about shutting down the Chicago shipping canals that were turned down by the Feds?

. Two states sued to have the canal closed, but the commercial shipping interests in Chicago won in court. You cannot blame the Feds or local government for the carp thing, which was created by private interests to begin with.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

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 Again, I'm sorry if I'm off topic, but Lake Michigan was in the OP, so in case anybody on LOU gives a rip, here's latest from Michigan DNR about the state of the fishery in a simplified nutshell. Nowhere does it mention competition from lakers in consideration of plantings. But might be mildly interesting....

 

 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/LakeMI-FisheryUpdate-Sept2015-v2_501195_7.pdf?source=govdelivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

IRon, we do give a rip. We enjoy contributions regarding the Michigan fishery. Thanks.

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Yeah, the 3 rod rule did this.....now I've heard it all. The unbelievable catch rates since its inception has destroyed the salmon. You have to be saying this as a joke.

G#d dam&$t Brian!

silverfoxcharters.net

Lol. The man is off his rocker!

As for the carp, the government allowed possession of these carp in ponds along the Mississippi. It should be up to them to fix this issue.

Edited by GAMBLER
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There is zero evidence anywhere, that backing off predation on alewives results in increased catch rates of Walleye, Yellow perch, or Lake Trout. It is in fact, just the opposite. Alewife are a voracious predator of the hatches of all three of these species. The catch rates for those species could/already have increased over there(Lake Michigan) out of necessity due to less Chinook, but that read like propaganda. The weaning has begun. 

Edited by Capt Vince Pierleoni
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Read the lake Michigan thing. A lot of that maybe could be applied to LO. Especially the competition between the zebras & Alwieves for the bottom of the food chain thing. Confirms I guess what we already knew.

 

 Also found the part about" population   modeling " interesting. Maybe that is what the lakers are for & in a few years they could do the job. Lets hope.

 

I think that the state is past the " Hey lets throw a bunch of fish in the lake and see what happens" way of doing things .The LM report  is some  evidence of that.  I hope they use the data they get , calculate, come up with a plan & execute it .Staying on the side if safety.  I think they care more than  some of you give them credit for.

 

And yeah the law change reference was kind of a dig , and I knew it probably wouldn't help you guys much. But it certainly did not help.

Edited by Has Been
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Completely ridiculous to think an extra rod or two is responsible for ,or has any kind of effect on the decline in the fishery.... Closing of the Samon raising in Caledonia? ABSOLUTELY.... Stocking numbers lowered?ABSOLUTELY... Even bad winters I can buy to a certain extent.... 3 rod rule? Not a chance.....

Sent from my VS980 4G using Lake Ontario United mobile app

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