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troubles

DEC response to Salmon Numbers

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Thanks Davy. As long as the hatchery gets the eggs they need plus the natural reproduction going on, I'm satisfied. And for anyone else, you want more fish? become a better fisherman.

 

Did you fish the east end of the lake this fall?

Slayed um pretty good did ya?

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The DSR is the fist 2.5 miles of 11 miles of fish able water. After the event we had yesterday I went up to the trestle then Ellis and finally the fly zone. Lots of bent rods. The DSR is transition water. Only a few big pools for fish to rest. And the reason they fly through there and head up. Fish have been moving at night. Saying that the fishing is totally off because of the DSR reports is like saying if the fishing is slow on the east end of the lake the entire lake is off. If we are going that way the fishing is bad every year. And lastly the DSR cut the daily limit of anglers in half. Lot less people fishing it per day then all the past years. I can only report on what I see and how I'm doing. Get out of your chairs and get on a river. A lot of arm chair qb's eh?

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Just today I rec'd calls from guides on the Genny, Niagara, and the west end northshore tribs. All reported extremely slow Salmon fishing. I personally fished the Niagara and 18 mile last week. It was 1--3 bites for 6 hrs each day. It is supposedly primetime but yet the parking lot was a ghost town at Olcott the last couple of days. The fish cleaner who mans the station said he was going to go have a beer because he hadnt had a customer in 3 hrs. Unheard of for this time of year. There is a big meeting being held in Port Credit tmw night because of how poor the Salmon fishing has been in the western basin Canadian waters. Reports from volunteers who helped take eggs said it was a real chore to get them.

Davey, I'm very happy to hear we will get our eggs this year. Kudos to you and your associates on the Breast Cancer fundraiser.

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Thanks Vince....it was a very special weekend. In two weeks we do the annual PHW event up there. The past five years we've had a nice slug of silver steelhead where we get to fish the Vets. This year we'll guide 12 to 14 hero's. Salmon season should be over, with plenty of carcasses, and good numbers of fresh steel chomping on eggs and flesh. We'll see what this year brings. 

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All great causes Davy,

Thanks for providing your service ..

The last time I did the PHW, it was behind the hatchery. I know some drift boats have also contributed in the past and maybe DSR as well ?

I think the DSR is advertising the event , where is it held this year ? Any Drift boats included as well ?

I'd be interested in hearing some stories or pictures you may wish to share.. Good Luck , hope the weather /water & fish all play nice for these folks, THEY WELL DESERVE IT !!

Rich

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Rich yes behind the hatchery. The vets bunk at the DEC CO barracks right there at 2A. Friday night is intro' of the teams and then Linds and I Jimmy Kelso and others partner up with a soldier and teach them flies we'll fish with. Dinner at the CO headquarters. Sat 0700 hours chow at the barracks then off to the river. 10th mountain puts up a tent on the bank of the river with heat and snacks and drinks. We've had cadets from West Point come to observe and many others. VFW puts on a dinner SAT night and then we do it again on Sunday. We have a couple drift boats that are DEC rigs to handle vets with physical limitations. Last year we had two young kids amputees. Super guys and they both caught some of these wonderful fish. I'm sure many of you who have been involved in these types of events you know how emotional it can get. I've been doing this for a long time and have made lasting friendships with these guys. Linds and I run a fly fishing school for wounded vets here in Rochester for OASIS Adaptive sports. Google it really great org. We do a March thru July program with five vets. I have a lady Navy vet we've been working with. This lady can flat out fish. Can't wait to get her up on this event. She beat all the boys on a accuracy casting competition. Sorry for getting off topic guys. Just truly love this program.

Edited by King Davy

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Awesome !!

Tell Kelso not to wear any red bandanas to scare all the fish , inside joke..

Enjoy and THANK YOU to ALL that make these projects happen for all our great men and women throughout..

Rich

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Had a feeling you knew Kelso. We must have shared water at some point. Kelso is the guide star for Lindsay women's seminars up on the river each summer. All the girls LOVE jimmy

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If you fished the lake more than a few weekends out of ANY port on Lake Ontario the last 2 seasons it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the salmon numbers were down. DRASTICALLY. If you want to know the status of the lake ask the guys who are out there EVERYDAY from April-oct from sunup to sundown. Guys like Captain Vinny should be used as a tool. It's hard to argue with someone who spends more time on the lake in a month than most do all season

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If you fished the lake more than a few weekends out of ANY port on Lake Ontario the last 2 seasons it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the salmon numbers were down. DRASTICALLY. If you want to know the status of the lake ask the guys who are out there EVERYDAY from April-oct from sunup to sundown. Guys like Captain Vinny should be used as a tool. It's hard to argue with someone who spends more time on the lake in a month than most do all season

Calm down man, the boys are figuring it out, this will take "patience" and time!

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I did fish the lake EVERY week from June -13 until September-15. Yes , I struggled . We marked very few and caught less. I felt it was a lack of experience and knowledge but also understand that many more knowledgeable people then me also struggled at times so I'm trying to figure out if the salmon were just more difficult to target OR if it is a down turn in total numbers of salmon.

The tell tail signs are the tribs returns.

If the tributaries receive good returns then we can make a conclusion.

Personally, in my only trip to the tribs October-1-3 I felt the fish that " should " be there were not.

However, and yes , others are seeing a different picture AFTER that time frame of good returns. So who is right and who is not , that's the question I'm waiting for from an official statement from the fisheries biologists and SOL report.

Right now I'm in a holding pattern until the information is processed and released

Rich

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COOL!!!!!, I thought with the all big lettered words, you were coming guns A'BLAZEN!!! Peace man, and tight lines to ya. PAP.

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The good thing is that we can expect a more lenient winter, so next spring may be the start of a good season .

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I took my kids down to the archers club at oak orchard, Saturday morning and in 2 hrs we only seen 3 fish hooked and no fish running. Then we stoped at the fish cleaning station up by the dam and nada person or fish there. Last yr the place was packed and at the archers club seen many fish running. And yes it was our worst king bite that i can remember on the big o. Jst my observations. I don't belive a WORD the dec or our government tells us.

Edited by bettieanne

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The good thing is that we can expect a more lenient winter, so next spring may be the start of a good season .

Says who??? They can't predict the weather to the minute let alone the weather for the winter Edited by d_balm24

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The entire run has to be looked at not just a small portion of the run. The salmon River reports were slow for the end of August, ALL of September and part of October. By looking at Columbus Day weekend and seeing a Decent run and basing the entire run on that weekend is not right. I will be a little more at ease when they get the egg quota but there is still something wrong and it needs to be figured out. I still shake my head at the lack of concern from some. We ALL have a lot invested in this fishery.

Edited by GAMBLER

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I really don't see why we shouldn't continue discussion about this topic.. It brings points of views, discussion and opinions that can be helpful, at least it has for me..

I'm a 36+ year trib fisher and sophomore lake fisher, invested plenty in the past/present I would say.. At this point my only investments now are for future fishers..

This thread in hopes will bring attention to those who hold the future.. Hopefully the views, opinions, observations and knowledge will help bring things to the table for the future, all IMO are of value..

Will I make it to the ELOSTA or SOL meetings, probably not.. Does it mean I don't wish to be concerned , want answers/findings or continued research , ABSOLUTLY I DO .. If I don't like the answers given then I will get off my tired butt again and request more.. Remember , it's about the future as gambler says..

One point of note:

As to the "runs" , last year everyone including myself thought it was terrible, maybe the worst.. Well the same story is being written this season..

The thing however is the TOTAL return, not just the "runs" folks experience.. I know many fish have been filtering in under the depth of water and the cover of darkness.. Have the fish out smarted us ? lol..

Just because we cant find , see or catch them doesn't mean they aren't there..

Lets let the tally add up and show the proof ..

Thanks for everyone who contributed, really I don't have much less to add:

Rich

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Fellas, I think we are starting to get off topic here. It's hard to judge how many fish are actually in the rivers although the "experts" have their methods. The ultimate question here is, if there are lots of salmon in the rivers then where were they out in the lake? With the number of great fishermen fishing water from 60 ft to 600 ft and having dismal success out of every port during summer then where were the fish hiding? I think the actual number of fish is way down.

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No disagreement there , where are they ? If they show up in the tribs then they came from the lake and not mysteriously planted in the tribs between 3-4 years old . yes - no ?

So that question is not for the lake management to explain where are they ,

They may say , (I hope,) the returns provide the numbers , it's up to you ( us , me , I ) to find and catch them .

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Elosta meeting:

Well the meeting was pretty good, but the turnout was far from steelar!!! A lot of guys on the lake and tribs have no problem going on social media and Monday morning quarterbacking the Staff at the hatchery, but when they are given the chance address these same people, where are they??

Those that attended, going to say 85-90% were lake guys, the only guys I saw that fish the tribs were fellow guides. But yet the creek census tells us the tribs are utilized far more by people than the lake. It would have been very nice to have a packed room for this meeting, but oh well, as usual.

The new hatchery manager was introduced, and he gave us some very good incite to what could possibly be one of the issues with eye up. Time will tell if this is the actual problem. There was some very good questions and statements from our fellow peers, and hopefully some of these will taken into consideration, but only time will tell.

I want to Thank Brian and the rest of the ELOSTA staff for getting this meeting setup, and I can't wait till the SOTL meetings in late Feb or March.

By Rich D

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Actually I counted 43 people but that includes the hatchery and associated people! So yes not a large turnout! 

 

A few statements and discussions with region 7 people:

 

3.5 million Chinook eggs taken so far. They plan to take more a little later. They modified the check they do on the male sperm by checking all that they will use this year to make sure it's good.

 

They are presently taking Coho eggs and mentioned that the male sperm has issues and are trying to find out why they are shooting blanks ! Their term not mine.

 

They realize that there were issues with Chinook numbers and size this year. Didn't mention anything about last 2 winters as a cause for reduced catch numbers.

 

Made statements regarding the Cormorant control only on Oneida lake that they do. Birds are getting smarter and avoiding their boat. Said they weren't a part of any  other area control. 

 

Apparently they stocked brown trout without the barge do to weather conditions at scriba Launch and they were decimated by the birds. 

 

Other items discussed briefly were Lamprey control and possible vitamin issues.

 

Jump in if I missed something guys !

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They are getting a new egg sorter, which will make the sorting process faster and much more efficient. They were talking about working one of the wells also. Process is still ongoing for the recirc project.

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