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flyrod2

Sale of FIsh

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Well today I have more snow on the ground than I have had all winter,(so much for the "experts" who know that the lake is too low) the boat is still in storage and the fish are not biting so I am reading this shtuf.

There are some issues here that concern me. Personally I don't care about the perch. It appears to me that the teacher doesn't care about perch or perch fishermen either. I see him teaching these impressionable adolescences (to say they are self thinking 11th graders is an oxymoron) a lessen on how to work the legislative process to change the laws for a bettor future for themselves. that's good. However in this case it also is to eliminate the competition for a capitalist venture (fish farm) and to trample on the local traditions and way of life of others.

Somebody on the first page of this thread said " I'd just like to ensure that future generations may enjoy the same things we have up to this point." Well one of the things we have enjoyed for generations up to this point is to go out in the winter fish up a bucket of perch sell them and go next door and have a good perch dinner and a beer or two. You can't teach the value of local tradition in a class room and I am unaware of any scientific study. Hopefully the students are still open to the opinions of this topic and that is why it was brought up, and not just to tell us what they are doing for us.

I have seen way to often people, some of you people and teachers, who have come to this finger lakes region on vacation, or for college or you married a local. then you moved here because you really liked how it is here. Then after a few years you want to change how we are here, unwittingly making this like the place you didn't like and moved from. You impose your downstate laws and regulations along with your sense of morals and good grammar on us. Some are good many are not.

As for the north American perch. Do any of you really think that hook and line fishing will cause the extinction of the species ? The bipeds will be gone long before the yellow perch. Weather, predation ,including fishing, environmental factors and even Haileys comet have an effect on the numbers of perch at any given time. They survived the last ice age and will probably survive the next.

When the numbers are low pressure on them declines, when the numbers are up more people find it worthwhile to fish for them. That is the natural way of all life. Some want to micro manage the lakes as a personal fish farm. That is the " ignorance or lack of respect for nature around us" !

As for the selling of perch hopefully 30 years from now people will be still discussing it as they were 30 years ago, nothing has changed.

We may be a dying bread Kingfisher, longing for the ways of our past local traditions to remain. I respect you for expressing your opinion and taking the heat for it. Your way of thinking is as foreign to them as theirs is to us. You are welcome to fish from my boat any day.

Now I'm going to climb back under my rock throw some more COAL into the stove and try to stay warm.

Very nicely said!

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Ahab - although you make some interesting points in your argument woth considering your denigration of young people and short sighted view of influences of folks who may have moved to the area or perhaps just weren't born here and blaming them for having views which oppose yours is truly ignorant as well as arrogant. I respect your  right to voice your view as well as other folks who may have very different views than my own oir some of the others here and I would defend your and their right to express them as well but is it really necessary to demean or belittle people as though your own viewpoint is more valid than theirs or blame others who may not have lived their whole lives in the area for what you perceive as a threat to your own views? It is unfortunate that divergent views can't be expressed without the polarization and  belittling of others.

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Ahab - agree with you on the carpet baggers.  Look at how Corning use to be.  Corning use to have nascar events (HUUGGGE turnout) and needed no advertising - they now need to advertise that jazzfest and artfest is fun.  Disagree with you on change.  We need to adapt.  I am not taking a position on the sale of fish, but, just because the road I grew up on is named after my lineage does not mean I have more rights to that hill than everyone else that lives there.  Also, I think the carpet baggers in the fingerlakes are more concerned with yuppy life - not fishing.  But yeah, the constant attack on my redneck values is annoying.

 

Les, there is no concrete proof that the sale of perch is detrimental to the overall population.  It is logical to say that there is a finite number of fish in any body of water and over harvesting can have ill effects on the fishery.  Prove to me that it is a problem of over harvest and I will support the ban.  I am not convinced.  To me this is just a down cycle. 

 

  • What I care most about is getting my sorry a$$ into the 10 percent.

 

Can we turn this into a poll?  I just wonder how many of us are

 

O For Sale of Perch

O Against Sale of Perch

O Undecided

 

Joe

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Ahab - although you make some interesting points in your argument woth considering your denigration of young people and short sighted view of influences of folks who may have moved to the area or perhaps just weren't born here and blaming them for having views which oppose yours is truly ignorant as well as arrogant. I respect your  right to voice your view as well as other folks who may have very different views than my own oir some of the others here and I would defend your and their right to express them as well but is it really necessary to demean or belittle people as though your own viewpoint is more valid than theirs or blame others who may not have lived their whole lives in the area for what you perceive as a threat to your own views? It is unfortunate that divergent views can't be expressed without the polarization and  belittling of others.

So tired of this liberal strategy, Sk8man. This approach that completely dismisses lawful aggression as bad and therefore the opinions are not valid. An aggressive type of speech born out of the frustration of having to deal with emotional knee-jerk reactions like the one proposed by the original poster. It is an aggression born out of the individual having to deal with the collective, feel-good mob imposing its feelings all over the place. A tried and true tactic is the propaganda of saving some form of nature in order to control a behavior that hurts their collective feelings. Is this sort of passive aggression necessary Sk8man? If it is, than it is certainly necessary to demean and belittle these subjugators in debate. This teacher has rounded up a bunch of students, handed them sticks and instructed them to poke a sleeping bear. God forbid the bear acts like a bear. This is a discussion, not born out of your liberal fantasy that all viewpoints are true and equal, but that one side is right and the other is flat out wrong. You can pretend to respect differing viewpoints and the right to express those opinions, but you are supporting a statist ideology, which makes you a hypocrite. This is where politically correct speech comes from. A suppression of lawful, protected speech that is persuasive and powerful and a threat to the liberal strategy. The state is the biggest bully there is, but through the diversion or shield of passive aggression it seems like a facilitator of good. It seems to protect the weak, but it’s coddling only makes the weak dependent, defenseless and feeble, which only gives the state more power. All of this feel good talk about, oh it’s not just one problem, it’s a slew of problems, and everyone has a valid point of view and we all need to hold hands around Seneca Lake and sing the perch back to health weakens the entire debate. All it does is bring it back to the idea that here is a small slot of folks we can control, so let’s do that, while respecting everyone, but them, because they are just greedy, polluting, thiefs who steal our state given resources. I swear, if it weren’t for the double standard, liberals would have no standards at all.        

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I can see that you didn't take your psychotropic medication today so there is no use responding.

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I can see that you didn't take your psychotropic medication today so there is no use responding.

Decent insult, actually, quite played out...what else you got?

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So after reading this post only one question comes to me, flyrod did your kids read this discussion? If so I'd love to see their conclusion of the debate. Great essay topic!

Sent from my C771 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

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So after reading this post only one question comes to me, flyrod did your kids read this discussion? If so I'd love to see their conclusion of the debate. Great essay topic!

Sent from my C771 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

When I was those kids age I didn't understand the concepts or trappings of the ideas presented here. I don't think many of the elder man posting to this thread do either. That's the main topic. For goodness sake, just look above; "The earth is flat" and "Perch for sale 25 bucks a pound". Maybe these kids learn to be flippant, vapid internet trolls who just accuse their debater of being on drugs, but my guess is that's it with flyrod at the helm.

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Hey I'm just trying to sell some perch

Must be a restaurant.

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When I was those kids age I didn't understand the concepts or trappings of the ideas presented here. I don't think many of the elder man posting to this thread do either. That's the main topic. For goodness sake, just look above; "The earth is flat" and "Perch for sale 25 bucks a pound". Maybe these kids learn to be flippant, vapid internet trolls who just accuse their debater of being on drugs, but my guess is that's it with flyrod at the helm.

When I was their age I had a very good concept of debating, listening to arguments and overall politics. You don't give them enough credit, I now have a degree in political science and maybe this type of topic will inspire some of them to follow what they are passionate about. Now given I did go through a very difficult time (in a liberal college) turning in papers with a very conservative stance, but I stuck to my roots and believe me I know where you are coming from, but I'm not taking sides on this, just wanna hear the kids analysis..

Sent from my C771 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

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I know where you are coming from, but I'm not taking sides on this, just wanna hear the kids analysis.. 

X2  :yes:

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Sorry Kingfisher,I was just trying to get on your wavelength and so I started with a very conservative concept, that has since been rebuked,but even today some people adhere to it ,because it seemed valid a few hundred years ago. So why change?

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Sorry Kingfisher,I was just trying to get on your wavelength and so I started with a very conservative concept, that has since been rebuked,but even today some people adhere to it ,because it seemed valid a few hundred years ago. So why change?

What conservative concept am I holding near and dear that has been rebuked? A page ago you were trying to quote the Bible, nothing wrong with that, but then appear to side with the statist ideologues on this topic, which is counter intuitive to me. You see, statists, you know, Leninists,  and Maoists take away religious freedom, free speech, dam near all Constitutional freedoms as a matter of business. They are not your friend. The change is an unnecessary law, one in a long line towards the dismantling of our inalienable rights as Americans.    

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With all things wrong with the lake the only thing we can control is how people fish it king I hope your right but only time will tell and then it will be to late

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With all things wrong with the lake the only thing we can control is how people fish it king I hope your right but only time will tell and then it will be to late

Not true, just the only idea the LOU brain trust can propose, which is the lowliest, easiest, laziest hanging fruit.

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The perch fishery in the Henderson area really isn't that much different from 20 years ago, there are way more impacts on the fishery than a guy selling fish, look at Zebra mussels, round gobies, lamprey and let's not forget the Asian carp threat. All are affecting the fishery more than the few guys selling perch. If it were affecting it that much don't you think DEC and environmentalist would have been doing long term studies on this.

Everything goes in cycles the perch fishing has been getting better on the east end of the lake so I don't think over fishing is the problem invasive species are what really impact the ecosystem of the lakes.

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Then what do you think we could could do to get the fishery back to how it was 30 years ago

Remember, the premise of this thread is a statewide ban to solve one lake's perceived issue. I don't understand the empirical issues of Seneca Lake, but hypothetically, I would employ an educational campaign to stimulate the use of best management practices within the watershed. A strong public backing reinforced with readily available scientific literature could bring economic pressure upon large operations that do not implement sound land practices. Identifying significant sources of pollution is not that hard.  Stabilizing the environment provides a cleaner canvas to then find understanding. I would utilize existing scientific studies that offer causal relations to perch declines and test if it is applicable to that body of water and rally public support around that, e.g., cormorant egg oiling. Can you promise me that outlawing the selling of fish will restore the fishery from 30 years ago? Of course not, that is a silly goal. Rather, tell me what the introduction of gobies on other perch waters has done to populations and behavior as a starting point for understanding this perceived decline. What is the relationship? On similar bodies of water where some science has stacked up, what can be learned, how can it be applied and what are the gaps of understanding. What has worked elsewhere and is it truly relevant? Upon finding a better understanding I would suggest Seneca Lake specific guidance if it is truly grounded in sound science.       

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Hmmm. Some good points on both sides. Most of it all says one clear thing. Without poof its all just opinion. Trying to Make laws to target what we assume a problem is .

Its an extreme liberals hobby. I try to stay middle of the road about views but some just refuse to see things with an open mind yet these people pretend to not be ignorant with a few cute words mixed in .

This day and age and so many variables to pretend to know what is affecting mother nature is ... well just typing

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