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dec meeting in cananda. anyone heard of it?


machzrcr

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They mentioned at Lockport meeting that they will wait to see what the YOY class looks like before determining any cuts.  They won't know until after the March/April haul happens.  After this winter.......the bait should be in great shape.  Last thing I want to see is another year of endless schools of bait with no hooks around it so hopefully no cuts.

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If anything they should cut back the lakers to what the levels before the addition of 300,000 more a couple years ago.  If we do not have kings to catch, the laker population is going to drop anyways.  That is the part they need to understand. 

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The meeting is in late April. There are about 10 fisherman from both sides of the lake going as well as the DEC and DNR. Apparently, the purpose is to listen to the fisherman. We've got some good representation going from the states. I guess we'll know more in a month.

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I will be attending this meeting April 21st on the Canadian side. I will post back here the results & Info. I will also be attending Great Lakes Fishery Commission meetings the rest of this week in Canada also. Then I finish up at the Lake Ontario Salmon Symposium in Mississauga/Toronto area on this Saturday. I have already made new contacts from across all the Great Lakes, Including Scientists-biologists and many Government agencies. Don't pre-judge the outcomes of these meetings just yet. As Rick has stated there will be some "good representation going from the states" It will consist of 12 Canadian and 12 U.S. (lake wide represented) stake holders.

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

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The YOY trawls has not started yet. VERY SOON with in days . The methods used today are same transections of the lake /with same time frames. EXCEPT they use updated modern Hydrocustics that count any and all bait from surface to bottom. Todays bait trawls are more accurate than the "old days" of bottom (no see-um) trawls.

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

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Jerry correct me if I'm wrong but the trawl and the hydrocustics are two different methods to measure bait density. I thought they were done separately?

Yes. Two different methods. Done at two different times. Trawls are done early spring and I believe the hydros are done in the middle of the year.

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It is way too soon to assess this years hatch, the alewives haven't even spawned yet. They would be looking to reinforce the belief that last years hatch didn't do well. As for hydro acoustic monitoring, it is still very limited in being able to measure yoy. We cause schools to skirt away when in the top 20, a large vessel is even more of a disturbance.

On a positive note the emeralds are back and smelt are in the river.  

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How can you use data from the same time year after year and compare it?  This spring will be drastically different than the last two years.  With the warm winter, the alewives could be out of the pattern that normally exsists and throw the data off.  Say the alewives are normally in 300' or deeper on the bottom when the do the trawls. This spring the water is warmer and alewives have moved shallower than the trawls.  This will drastically throw the data off. 

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For anyone coming to the Salmon Symposium Saturday there should be a good presentation on Saturday - Prey Fish Dynamics from Brian Weidel, USGS Oswego NY and Jeremy Holden, OMNRF (what are they eating and how that's going). It would be a good time to ask questions. Lets hope all those 3-5 year old alewife in the lake had a great spawn and the YOY had a good winter.

Edited by jimmay
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How can you use data from the same time year after year and compare it?  This spring will be drastically different than the last two years.  With the warm winter, the alewives could be out of the pattern that normally exsists and throw the data off.  Say the alewives are normally in 300' or deeper on the bottom when the do the trawls. This spring the water is warmer and alewives have moved shallower than the trawls.  This will drastically throw the data off. 

I can see your concern ,but the only way to create a multiyear comparison is by repeating the process that has been used in the previous years. There is no way to see a trend or a change ,unless all other factors are left equal.

This also protects the data from being rigged in order to serve special interest shenanigans.

Edited by rolmops
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This may sound a little off but I don't understand why they don't gather their data from fisherman too. Do a survey at the middle or end of May from guys that fish frequently. If the alewife population is healthy, you will know it when fishing the shoreline in April/may.

I can see how their data could be off misleading considering weather patterns/forage/water temps etc.

Edited by Nontypical
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Sounds like the bait data collection methods are pretty sound. They do simultaneous nettings in many different areas of the lake from the niagara to the st Lawrence fab in depths from 20 to 600 feet. In fact, they have added a few more netting areas to make the data more complete. I'll be very anxious to see the results. They do the nettings starting April 18th

Edited by rdebadts
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This may sound a little off but I don't understand why they don't gather their data from fisherman too. Do a survey at the middle or end of May from guys that fish frequently. If the alewife population is healthy, you will know it when fishing the shoreline in April/may.

I can see how their data could be off misleading considering weather patterns/forage/water temps etc.

They told us at a meeting that they use scientific data not observation from fishermen.
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This may sound a little off but I don't understand why they don't gather their data from fisherman too. Do a survey at the middle or end of May from guys that fish frequently. If the alewife population is healthy, you will know it when fishing the shoreline in April/may.

I can see how their data could be off misleading considering weather patterns/forage/water temps etc.

Because that information/data is anecdotal, not scientific.

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Over here on Lake Michigan, they are trying out a new program to gather information about baitfish population from anglers. Hopefully it will help because I believe the methods used now are outdated with the changes occurring in the Great Lakes.

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/wheres_the_bait_okeefe16

From the way the NYS DEC reps talk at the state of the lake meeting, IMO they think we are just a bunch of cavemen that do not have a clue as to what is going on out there. They would never use our observations because it is not scientifically sound data it is just observations. 

Edited by GAMBLER
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Isn't some of their scientific data based on their observations? I don't see how fishermen's observations couldn't help them come to their scientific conclusions? Hopefully it works over here and trickles down...

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Last summer they did their trawl off Port Washington from 30-300+ fow and found 18 Alewives, but strong west winds the week prior had brought massive amounts of Alewives into the shallow water, and into the harbors where they don't conduct their surveys. I, and many other fishermen witnessed the huge schools of bait with our eyes up and down the western LM basin, and you would think they would appreciate that info...

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I was at the meeting today and the way that I understood the trawling was to find the 1 year old fish. Not the spawning fish that move in towards shore. They said that during the summer they use sonar technology with computer software to count the breading stocks. I have no opinion on how they do it right or wrong because I am very new to this. Just passing along the information they passed along today

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