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Us to! one Skippy sat went west of plant today had a monster on wrapped up a dipsy line and then came at the boat was gone just as fast. Got to rough out deep called it quits around 11.30

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Those around Mexico should start screaming for more stocking

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Black River hasn't been stocked for years except for Atlantic salmon joke. I think if they did we would see more fish in the trenches and shipping channel

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Those around Mexico should start screaming for more stocking

 

So if they stock more salmon in Mexico there will be more salmon to catch in Mexico?  Is that your theory?  You do know Salmon River stocked fish spend there summer on the North Shore off Toronto..  It has been proven.  A king salmon can swim 60 miles in a 24hr period if they so desire..  It has nothing to do with stocking levels and everything to do with the water they want to live in....

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With the exception of the fact that the Salmon river is where the hatchery is (drawing the late summer / fall kings)......Mexico Bay has always been and will always be a crap shoot with a lot of head scratching on where the fish are.  

 

Some springs, the wheel of fortune that are the lake currents deliver a bunch of bait and fish with it in the spring.  Otherwise yeah I give it to the western ports for consistency.  

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So if they stock more salmon in Mexico there will be more salmon to catch in Mexico?  Is that your theory?  You do know Salmon River stocked fish spend there summer on the North Shore off Toronto..  It has been proven.  A king salmon can swim 60 miles in a 24hr period if they so desire..  It has nothing to do with stocking levels and everything to do with the water they want to live in....

Huh. I was under the impression that the DEC stocked salmon in tributaries/rivers and they come back to those same tribs etc to spawn. I understand that the salmon may not stay right near that area for the X years they are in Lake O before returning but figured that when they do return in the late summer/fall it would be in greater numbers. From what I understand, even last years late summer/fall fishing out of Mexico was really bad.

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My understanding is that 1.8 million salmon stocked a survival rate of 11-13%= not a lot compared to 90's 5-8 million per year.The cutbacks are supposed because of forage issues.Hmm...... Still seeing and .hearing about lots of bait and no hooks around them. This is only my personal opinion.If the numbers are not there,its hard to catch what's not there .Too bad they're not gobie eaters.lol🙊🙉🙈

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My understanding is that 1.8 million salmon stocked a survival rate of 11-13%= not a lot compared to 90's 5-8 million per year.The cutbacks are supposed because of forage issues.Hmm...... Still seeing and .hearing about lots of bait and no hooks around them. This is only my personal opinion.If the numbers are not there,its hard to catch what's not there .Too bad they're not gobie eaters.lol

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Unfortunately 5-8 million didn't happen in the 90's in NY.   You compared against the 1.8 for NY now so thats what I assume you mean.  I fished then, would have been nice.   2.7 million in 1995.   cut down to just over a million in 1996 after Michigan's first crash.  brought back up later in the 1990's but  not exceeding 2 million.    Base water flows in 1996 started the natural reproduction now estimated at a number equal to 50% of the stocking total.  

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Unfortunately 5-8 million didn't happen in the 90's in NY. You compared against the 1.8 for NY now so thats what I assume you mean. I fished then, would have been nice. 2.7 million in 1995. cut down to just over a million in 1996 after Michigan's first crash. brought back up later in the 1990's but not exceeding 2 million. Base water flows in 1996 started the natural reproduction now estimated at a number equal to 50% of the stocking total.

All good info! Could you explain base water flows? Thanks

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All good info! Could you explain base water flows? Thanks

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Before 1996 the salmon river (main hatchery river) would go down to 50 cubic feet per second of flow....or less during the summer.  During salmon season they would yo-yo it from 1500 cubic feet down to 100....power generation thinking, not actual river management.  Fish would get stranded in the extreme.  In spring / summer fry would get stranded and/or overheated.    In 1996 after some agreements with then Niagra Mohawk (now Brookfield Power). they made adjustments to the equipment to allow for minimum summer base flows of 185cfs in the summer + 3 or 4 weekends where they would bump the river up for kayakers & other users (provided there was enough water in the reservoir).  In addition they had "in season" agreement for 285CFS minimum.  The yo-yo'ing cut back significantly (compared to prior).  The (somewhat) stabilized system allowed for actual natural reproduction....granted, good years vs bad years depending on actual weather conditions but at least there was a chance where before the summer heat and piss trickle nuked whatever managed to survive and hatch.  

 

I fish the river a fair amount...a few years ago we were getting salmon returns that could be compared as hatchery or natural due to a fin clipping program they did for a few years. I think around 4 years ago it was a really good year but the amazing thing was the endless # of salmon that came in from mid august through mid sept. to the river were 90% unclipped.  Seemed like the early fish were the naturals to some degree.  Either way, it made the "natural" fish very noticable vs the hatchery fish.   

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So memory service .

George Pataki eliminated sangging in 1995 .

Salmon stocking on the Great Lake Ontario was reduced from 5.3 million ( ny ) to 2.5 ?

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So memory service .

George Pataki eliminated sangging in 1995 .

Salmon stocking on the Great Lake Ontario was reduced from 5.3 million ( ny ) to 2.5 ?

OK....google finally did me right.   I was a little low for the 80's and through 1992.   

 

"Stocking numbers of Chinook salmon in Lake Ontario peaked in 1984 at 4.2 million fish and ranged from 3.2 million to 3.6 million annually from 1984 to 1992. From 1994-1996, stocking ranged from 1.5-1.7 million fish and from 1997-1999 stocking ranged from 2.0-2.2 million fish (Mills 2003)."

 

Here's the link.  Not a fun chart like I was hoping for but some good info.  I was generally going on memory on stocking #'s and some info found and recalled about 1995-1996 timeframe when the crap hit the fan in Michigan.  2.7 million I found as a quote in something for 1995.

 

http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/GreatLakes/FactSheet.aspx?NoCache=1%2F10%2F2013+3%3A54%3A45+PM&SpeciesID=920&State=&HUCNumber=4090002

Edited by Fat Trout

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Thanks Fat Trout. Good stuff.

Just trying to get a grip on what the hell happened to the fishery in this area since I've been gone.

I see now why all the charter boats I worked on and friends I made have left the area. Sad for me to see following the footsteps of my father who practically raised me fishing the Mexico bay / salmon river area. Thanks again!

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Thanks Fat Trout. Good stuff.

Just trying to get a grip on what the hell happened to the fishery in this area since I've been gone.

I see now why all the charter boats I worked on and friends I made have left the area. Sad for me to see following the footsteps of my father who practically raised me fishing the Mexico bay / salmon river area. Thanks again!

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The other big thing that can't be avoided is how the zebra mussels cleared up the lake.  That extra clarity really makes a difference in getting bites!  I hate to be that guy but "I remember when" you couldn't see a downrigger ball after you sent it down 5 feet   lol

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The winner of the little Salmon tourney yesterday was over 600 fow almost all day

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I like this I'm gonna run with this the rest of the week

Edited by underthefloat

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Black River hasn't been stocked for years except for Atlantic salmon joke. I think if they did we would see more fish in the trenches and shipping channel

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you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

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Very interesting thread. I think king fishing on Ontario is such great fun. Wish I could spend the whole summer there. I go to the west end every spring , last two years in mid June have been slow for me but have hit it hot. Olcott is a great fish town in my opinion. This year once I went home the bite started. I want to get out to Mexico bay this August....waiting for the fleas to dissipate. There are so many invasive species challenges to a healthy lake. Too bad alewives are a main forage now...versus smelt...alewives are unstable and lack reproductive nutrients predators need. On lake Champlain , where I fish it can't grow big fish, of any species. Your steelhead 10lbs plus blow my mind. As I understand it about half of ur kings now are natural....great accomplishment...by somebody.

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