Mikecatt14

Lake O Newbie

40 posts in this topic

So is there really no reason to use a stacker release to fish multiple depths off 1 downrigger? Just use a slider with snap swivel to connect to main line and a small offshore tackle clip to keep the slider at a set depth?

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Mike, the reason to use a fixed stacker on a downrigger cable is for #1...having more than just yourself on board and you can put more rods/lines in the spread than three.
#2...you want to use an "SWR" style of rig, refered to here as a Secret Weapon Rig style of presentation. My preference as a stacker, is to call it a "tailgunner". The SWR is similar only it involves directly attaching a main line copper or lead core to the ball and running the ball higher in the water column out of the detection of fish in a desired temperature zone. The lure on the heavy wire then follows up later in the desired temperature zone deeper, and a fish will not be spooked by a ball and only see the lure quietly passing by. In the same context, the tailgunner does the same except it relies on active fish that are not ball shy and offers the second chance hookup on the second rod stacked 20 feet above the ball for a 100 foot copper.
Other than that, there is no real advantage of stacking on a downrigger over the use of a fixed slider, in my opinion. The fixed slider will effectively give you 2 lures per rod, per person, vs. 1 lure per rod as in stacked.
The disadvantage of a slider is not having an accurate depth control and the possibility of a swivel breaking on a fish wrenching the swivel against the terminal of the main lure, or the poor hook up from the belly of the main line as in the free slider version. The fixed slider is a little better in the hookup respect as well as more accurate depth control. I like to pin my fixed slider on the rigger cable about 8 to 10 feet above the main line on the ball. Known here as a "Mupp Rig". Very good presentation I might add. It involves 2 lures of the same design and action, the pinned cheater lure is bigger and slightly more flashy. The lower lure on the main line is the target smaller lure.
In the end a stacker will only be of most value when you have enough bodies on board to use more rods. But even still in my opinion it is better to be wider and longer to get separation of baits and use dipsey or torpedoes, and heavy wires to achieve that, rather than stack into a narrow trolling pattern on the downriggers.


cent frum my notso smartphone

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Lots of good info in there, thanks so much!

Do you all have a preference on line color as far clear, blue, or green? Do most run straight mono, mono with fouro leader or straight fluoro on the rigger rods? (I run fluorocarbon leaders on all my lead, copper, etc but am going to respool my riggers with 30# and trying to decide what's best)

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I run my downrigger rods with 300 ft main 30lb Ande clear mono on top of 30 lb braid backing. Smaller reels. Just enough Ande to reach the ball for the purpose of sea flea repellant. leader is 30lb Seguar blue label or Gamma flourocarbon about 8 to 12 feet for salmon. I would run lighter for early season 12 to 15 lb flouro 20 feet mostly for trout and probably would stick to the same for salmon, but I often have some over anxious buds on board and would likely break 12 lb off, loose the fish and the 25 dollars tackle!
About the sea fleas. If you do any fishing after end of June, you will encounter these Sobs and some days be very frustrated with them. There are special specific lines made to reduce the trouble of them attaching to your line. Blood run has some and there is Cortland flea flicker out there. I have found that they work well but also are harder to control knot quality.
30lb mono will keep most of it at bay unless the worst days for infestation occur, then 40lb might work better. Some days nothing works and they even get on your downrigger cables.
During the flea season, you cannot use braid lines of any kind for dipsey or vertical sections to the ball on rigger rods. A few minutes of them in the water and they become useless during the worst outbreaks of fleas. I will recommend only one braid line for dipsey rods during fleas, but it is marginal in bad infestations. That is Fireline Fused Original 30 lb. It is about the same to a little better as 30lb malin wire as far as collection of fleas, but will not go quite as deep as wire.
You can run 30 lb mono full spool on your downrigger rods. I just like to use smaller reels, and use the braid for backing to have more running line.

cent frum my notso smartphone

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Thanks again! I run all Ande for my mono line too. I had some trouble with my boards roughing up my mono on my coppers and leads so I am changing clips and maybe boards but was also looking at trying Ande Monster as they say it's their most abrasion resistent, however it only comes in bright yellow and blue so that's why I was wondering about line color (and I run their tournament series for walleye which is green, was also considering using 30-40 lb of that for salmon stuff but didn't know about the green color)

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So do most run line specific for fleas like the blood run or just go higher poundage of your favorite line like going from standard 20# up to 30#?

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Blood Run Sea Flee works well. 30# will work as long as they don't get too bad.
For the past several years the western side of Lake O has only seen about 2 weeks of "bad flea days". Really not bad the rest of the year
FYI you won't see them at all until the majority of the Lake surface is 60 degrees or warmer.


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30# Maxima Chameleon straight to the lure for me. I get about 800' on a size 30 okuma. I found this line fishing the Niagara River as a teenager. It's the most abrasion resistant mono I've ever seen. Saved a ton in tackle since then


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Gotcha, thanks guys! Can't wait to join the fishery and hopefully see some of you on the water!

I have seen some videos of Yakima Mag Lips being used with success on the bar in may, anyone have any experience with these being good or was it likely a plug for their sponsor?

Finally, anything specific you guys do as far as certain classes of fish you release or anything to keep the fishery sustainable? I'm all about conservation and making sure we can enjoy these things for years to come

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This ! This is the best question yet. I'm sure many will also agree. It's awesome to see people from out of state showing interest is sustaining the fishery here. Unfortunetally this isn't as common as It should be though. ...... IMO I release every fish that appears to be in good shape and not gill hooked or over fatigued from the fight. It's important to revive fish as best as you can a good way to do this is to get a boga grip and tie a rope to it long enough for it to reach the water with a fish on it while attached to your rod holder ect. Leave the fish on there for a few minutes while trolling once the fish is upright and kicking they should swim off with no issue. If you do plan on keeping fish though generally anything over 20 lbs Is a mature fish in Lake O.

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Are you all running split rings on the front of your spoons or just hooking the snap directly to the hole in the spoon?

What leads from the ball are most common for the spring (niagara bar) on downrigger rods?

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On 3/19/2017 at 11:10 PM, skipper19 said:


Mike, the reason to use a fixed stacker on a downrigger cable is for #1...having more than just yourself on board and you can put more rods/lines in the spread than three.
#2...you want to use an "SWR" style of rig, refered to here as a Secret Weapon Rig style of presentation. My preference as a stacker, is to call it a "tailgunner". The SWR is similar only it involves directly attaching a main line copper or lead core to the ball and running the ball higher in the water column out of the detection of fish in a desired temperature zone. The lure on the heavy wire then follows up later in the desired temperature zone deeper, and a fish will not be spooked by a ball and only see the lure quietly passing by. In the same context, the tailgunner does the same except it relies on active fish that are not ball shy and offers the second chance hookup on the second rod stacked 20 feet above the ball for a 100 foot copper.
Other than that, there is no real advantage of stacking on a downrigger over the use of a fixed slider, in my opinion. The fixed slider will effectively give you 2 lures per rod, per person, vs. 1 lure per rod as in stacked.
The disadvantage of a slider is not having an accurate depth control and the possibility of a swivel breaking on a fish wrenching the swivel against the terminal of the main lure, or the poor hook up from the belly of the main line as in the free slider version. The fixed slider is a little better in the hookup respect as well as more accurate depth control. I like to pin my fixed slider on the rigger cable about 8 to 10 feet above the main line on the ball. Known here as a "Mupp Rig". Very good presentation I might add. It involves 2 lures of the same design and action, the pinned cheater lure is bigger and slightly more flashy. The lower lure on the main line is the target smaller lure.
In the end a stacker will only be of most value when you have enough bodies on board to use more rods. But even still in my opinion it is better to be wider and longer to get separation of baits and use dipsey or torpedoes, and heavy wires to achieve that, rather than stack into a narrow trolling pattern on the downriggers.


cent frum my notso smartphone
 

So how do you prevent the tangles if a fish bites the bottom shorter one? Every time I ran my top line longer than my bottom I ended up with a mess

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So how do you prevent the tangles if a fish bites the bottom shorter one? Every time I ran my top line longer than my bottom I ended up with a mess

When running the Mupp Rig both lures are on the main line so no tangles there, but with a stacker, it is nearly impossible to "prevent" tangles. Only one way to put the odds of avoiding tangles in your favor is to use a out and down rig on the stacker. That uses a small dipsy on top and planes the stacker out, but it's kind of a PIA to get set. Lots of extra time in getting that set up.

You will get crossunder with stackers, with a mad fish on the ball set, having that forefront in your mind will help you to more immediately figure the best way out of it before it gets to be tangled. Nature of the beast!

A couple tactics that work sometimes is to keep the bottom lure tighter to the ball. The stacker on the copper is at least 20 to 25 feet above the ball, and can give some time to grab that fish from the ball and try to direct him to the chute. Chances are you won't have a lot of control over a raging king, and all you can really do is hope he stays deep and runs away from you. As mentioned before, I only run stackers if I have enough bodies on board to justify it's use. Therefore, usually there is somebody driving, somebody to operate the rigger, and drop it another 30 or 40 feet in deep water immediately upon hookup and out of the way without releasing the stacker yet. The one with the rod can't do all that, so it's at least a three man operation, and experience is quite necessary.

After the fish is coming aboard, the stacker is popped, and allowed to surf up the water column and possibly pick another fish on its trip up. It has to be popped anyway in order to reset the whole thing, but sometimes the rising lure coming back through the productive zone and pick another fish.

Stackers are generally not all that fun, so I reserve them for money fishing and/or experienced crew of 3 at least.

 

Money doesn't buy happiness,

but it does buy horsepower....

I've never seen a sad person in a boat haulin' A$$...!

 

 

 

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