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Tall Tails

Another 20% CUT in Chinook Stocking for 2019

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1 minute ago, HB2 said:

Thanks Gator for your technical explanation of your view on the aclimatation of LO kings over the last 40 years . Kind of confirmed my suspicion . You sound like a brainiac. 

 

Volunteerism is low in all groups / organizations. 10% of the members usually do 90% of the work . And it's,usually me doing it . I can't sit around and watch . 

 

Money should be no problem at all . If everyone gives a little, it can total a lot . 

 

No domestic rainbows in upper Sandy? 

 I have lived in Holley for almost 60 years and you don't know what you're talking about . 

 

And I troll j plugs almost exclusively after labor day for many years . I do pretty well on them and have NEVER Snagged a salmon .

And yes ,there are guys pier heading and trolling staggers off Sandy . 

 

Also last year I launched my small boat 2 days after we released the fish at Sandy . 

There were a bunch of cormerants having breakfast on all the little ones you could see swimming around . I imagine the smallmouth bass were well fed also . 

 

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On 9/28/2018 at 9:51 AM, rolmops said:

20% sounds like a lot, but natural reproduction will probably be up this season, because the spawning salmon are well fed this year. The controlled stockings are less significant every year.


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Unless you fish the west end of the lake when our fish typically disappear in mid August as they head east.

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9 minutes ago, Tim Bromund said:

Unless you fish the west end of the lake when our fish typically disappear in mid August as they head east.

That is very true. We have much the same problem on the east end where we have to wait until the middle of June for the Salmon to show up in good numbers

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1 hour ago, rolmops said:

That is very true. We have much the same problem on the east end where we have to wait until the middle of June for the Salmon to show up in good numbers

True, but the difference is, your issue is based on water temp and is uncorrectable. Ours can be improved with modified stocking strategies.

 

Particularly since half of the lake's charter fleet, and recreational fleet spends their spring parked down here in Olcott and Wilson filling their boxes with salmon.  I don't blame them for that, gotta go where the fishing is good,  but the simple fact is, there are a ton of fish taken out of the system out of the west end every spring and early summer, so when the migratory fish start heading home in mid August, we typically have very few of our resident fish left to stage and run and our fishing essentially flatlines in late August, unless you want to run offshore and chase 2 year olds. I'm just thinking that a revised stocking strategy might be able to correct some of that. It wouldn't really affect the fall east end fishing all that much with all of the wild fish that slam into the Salmon River every fall.

 

Just my opinion.

Edited by Tim Bromund

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36 minutes ago, Tim Bromund said:

True, but the difference is, your issue is based on water temp and is uncorrectable. Ours can be improved with modified stocking strategies.

 

Particularly since half of the lake's charter fleet, and recreational fleet spends their spring parked down here in Olcott and Wilson filling their boxes with salmon.  I don't blame them for that, gotta go where the fishing is good,  but the simple fact is, there are a ton of fish taken out of the system out of the west end every spring and early summer, so when the migratory fish start heading home in mid August, we typically have very few of our resident fish left to stage and run and our fishing essentially flatlines in late August, unless you want to run offshore and chase 2 year olds. I'm just thinking that a revised stocking strategy might be able to correct some of that. It wouldn't really affect the fall east end fishing all that much with all of the wild fish that slam into the Salmon River every fall.

 

Just my opinion.

In one of the meetings with the DEC Steve Lapin(?spelling) mentioned that increased pen raised salmon has a dramatic effect for better survival and these salmon do tend to stay closer to their pen river. At the same time he said that increasing the number of pen raised fish , will lower the the other stocking numbers in order to keep a proper balance in the water. He also said that he does not mind giving more fish for the pens as long as he can lower the other regular stocking accordingly.

The regular stocked fish does not have a home river because they never were in a river when they smolted and chances are that they will go to the water where they were spawned, but they have no reason to return to or stay near their stocking river. On the other hand the pen raised fish does.

I think that you western guys  should ask for more pen raising stock and accept the resulting decrease of fish of regular stocking that will swim away anyway. Overall,you would be better of.

Did you ever think of putting pens in the Niagara river thereby creating a west end natural reproduction river not unlike the east end salmon river ?

Edited by rolmops

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Late Summer,early fall fishing west end has not been the same since they quit raising kings at Caladonia . The fish head east because that's where the were born . 

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On 10/13/2018 at 2:11 PM, rolmops said:

In one of the meetings with the DEC Steve Lapin(?spelling) mentioned that increased pen raised salmon has a dramatic effect for better survival and these salmon do tend to stay closer to their pen river. At the same time he said that increasing the number of pen raised fish , will lower the the other stocking numbers in order to keep a proper balance in the water. He also said that he does not mind giving more fish for the pens as long as he can lower the other regular stocking accordingly.

The regular stocked fish does not have a home river because they never were in a river when they smolted and chances are that they will go to the water where they were spawned, but they have no reason to return to or stay near their stocking river. On the other hand the pen raised fish does.

I think that you western guys  should ask for more pen raising stock and accept the resulting decrease of fish of regular stocking that will swim away anyway. Overall,you would be better of.

Did you ever think of putting pens in the Niagara river thereby creating a west end natural reproduction river not unlike the east end salmon river ?

There have been pens in the Niagara since the origination of the Pen projects.

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5 hours ago, Tim Bromund said:

There have been pens in the Niagara since the origination of the Pen projects.

Did it help create natural reproduction?

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Did it help create natural reproduction?

I think the point is being missed. The DEC doesn’t want natural reproduction in introduced species. The idea of stocking is to control the numbers of species not native to the Great Lakes


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39 minutes ago, chinook35 said:


I think the point is being missed. The DEC doesn’t want natural reproduction in introduced species. The idea of stocking is to control the numbers of species not native to the Great Lakes


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If they are serious about that, they would have radiated all the stocked fish in order to render them sterile. The fact that they did not do this is a sign that they do not care about inhibiting fertility in introduced species.

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If you google underwater footage of the lower Niagara on YouTube, you will see an amazing array of fish species-all qualified to eat eggs. Add Lake Trout, Browns, smallmouth, walleyes, muskies etc etc that will eat the parr that survive the egg eaters. Add toxic warm temps in the fall and sewage discharges all winter long.....the chances of natural repro of any relevance is small. 

 

 

Edited by Gill-T

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If they are serious about that, they would have radiated all the stocked fish in order to render them sterile. The fact that they did not do this is a sign that they do not care about inhibiting fertility in introduced species.

That would render the Hatchery obsolete. They need viable fish to hatch and stock the next generation Natural production is not high on list of desirable side effects of the pacific salmon program take a look at the barrier at the Salmon River Hatchery. It’s to keep the salmon from traveling any farther upstream and producing offspring naturally

 

 

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The part of natural reproduction of salmon that the lake managers don’t like is the lack of control. Lack of consistency in the salmon hatch make it more of a challenge to plan predator v alewife numbers. 

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That would render the Hatchery obsolete. They need viable fish to hatch and stock the next generation Natural production is not high on list of desirable side effects of the pacific salmon program take a look at the barrier at the Salmon River Hatchery. It’s to keep the salmon from traveling any farther upstream and producing offspring naturally
 
 
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Actually below the hatchery is where the salmon river meets beaver dam brook, which is what the hatchery is on. So if that was the case, they would have a barrier on the main river, to divert all salmon to the brook, and into the hatchery. Also there is spawning taking place from the bottom of the DSR all the way up to the Lower res dam. Along with all the tribe that flow into the main stem. Also when the license came up for renewal on the hydro dam, they would not have put the minimum flows into the FERC agreement.

Capt Rich.


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Things are not looking good so far for this winter.  The lake temp is already 6 degrees colder than it was at this time last year.  If we continue this trend, the YOY alewife will suffer......

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Agree, cold end of October- November. There is food for the alewives now, the critical time is Feb-March. We need an early spring. 

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The original forage trawls were conducted by Lake Erie commercial fishermen who specialize on smelt. Maybe the college boys lack the life experience to produce fish as the fellows who make their living trawling.


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You have to be aware that that the Niagara River is actually Lake Erie waters, not Lake Ontario which are warmer later and earlier each spring and fall. They are also nutrient richer and feed the forage greater than other areas of Lake Ontario.


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On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:45 PM, chinook35 said:

That would render the Hatchery obsolete. They need viable fish to hatch and stock the next generation Natural production is not high on list of desirable side effects of the pacific salmon program take a look at the barrier at the Salmon River Hatchery. It’s to keep the salmon from traveling any farther upstream and producing offspring naturally

 

 

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This is not true.  There is a dam on Beaver Dam brook not far upstream of the Rt 22 bridge over it, less than 1/4 mile upstream  of the hatchery.  If they were concerned about stopping natural reproduction in tributaries, they would have to deal with Trout Brook and Orwell Brook, both of which offer miles of good gravel.  The gate on Beaver Dam forces the fish to take the ladder.  After egg take they often drop the gate.

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