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garrymny

Creek Salmon eat Skein, but staging Salmon Don't bite

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I have a friend that catches tons of salmon in the creeks and rivers on Skein. In fact two years ago he took me to the falls on the Genesee and we caught about 6 or 7 huge Kings on Skein. So why do I have such trouble getting a staging Salmon to hit, as I troll back and forth through a screen covered with salmon, trying everything in my arsenal? Usually this results in nothing but frustration. I'm wondering if if should just drift over them with Skein!

 

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I catch them on skein off the Charlotte pair while also casting Cleo’s


The Fishin’ Physician Assistant

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Andy Todd of OMNRF suggests jigging for them!

 

Have you tried running the big plugs like j-Plugs through them!

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Posted (edited)

I trib fish for kings a lot as I have a cottage on one . 

 

I fish either a j 13 rapala or a mag hot n tot  among others lures . The plug bite is usually first light . After that it's Skein. 

 

Last year I caught a hand full on plugs , it was mostly skein. 

 

I fish a lot of bass and pike and when I come to a spot I fan cast a spinner of some sort , then jig . Sometimes they hit the spinner bait . Or sometimes I can't get a hit on one and it's all jigs . 

 

They are either in a chasing mood or they aren't . 

 

I feel it's the same with the salmon . 

Edited by HB2

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On 8/30/2019 at 11:08 AM, jimski2 said:

Fishing the wild hatched fish of Alaska possessing salmon eggs is illegal.


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Good bless you jimski ......but man are you prone to rambling lol. :lol:

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Thing slowly trolled but lots of 

aggravating/ triggering wild action. This time of year they are attracted to skein scent so skein on a j-plug or kwikfish/maglips. Hot’n tots, big lipped stickbaits with upgraded hooks etc etc. 

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Yes I've run j plugs, Kwik fish, u name it.

Andy Todd of OMNRF suggests jigging for them!
 
Have you tried running the big plugs like j-Plugs through them!


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10 hours ago, garrymny said:

But the jigging, now that would be a riot if they hit!

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A lot of the guys trolling around the piers with J plugs are not fishing for the hit, 5 mph right up the channel in the Genesee is called " Power Trolling", and is as likely to get you one hooked in one end as the other.  Some contend that fish caught on egg sacks off the piers are just running through the line.  If the fish is hooked in the mouth it is legal,  and I can't see why they would be any less likely to hit a jig than another bait.  The Canadians often approach things differently, Andy says it is great to be able to get the kings on light line and tackle rather than an ocean rig, so he jigs for them while they are out in the lake.  It is my sense that the Canadians have enough sense to not bother with soft fleshed, low eating quality, dark salmon anyway.

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The “alleged sport fishing of Sockeye Salmon” on the Kensington River and Russian River systems is still snagging if that there it is an acceptable practice. A triple X heavy hook highlited with fluorescent feathers and a rubber sinker are bounced in the rapid currents to allow the free line to enter the mouth of migrating sockeye salmon where the heavy hook is impaled in the mouth area. This is also known as “lining” snag.

 

 

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On 9/2/2019 at 11:05 AM, Gill-T said:

 

Good bless you jimski ......but man are you prone to rambling lol. :lol:

 

I suspect that what jimski meant was that skein is so productive that they've outlawed it in Alaska. The reason I understand this is because I, too, am a man prone to rambling :lol:

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Maybe someone should make Skein scent spray we can spray our lures with. My local Archery shop guy said they bite skein in the tributaries not because they are eating but to kill the offspring of competition.

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I have asked every salmon that I caught in the mouth why it bit, and I have yet to get a clear answer! :lol:

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I have caught a few  kings on eggs under a float  this past week and a few had the hook down its throat . 

 

I have learned in the past few years doing this that if you don't have the right eggs cured the right way you will catch little or nothing . 

 

The fish may have lost their appetite, but they haven't lost their sense of smell , sight or taste . 

 

If they see something that looks and smells  good,  and tastes good , they might take a bite . 

 

How many times have we eaten something when we are not hungry because it smelled and looked good ? 

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HB2 that is a very insightful post.   no matter how full i am if a potato chip floats in front of my face i probably am gonna eat it.  unless of course i'm dodging chunks of lead flying at me from all directions. 

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95% of the salmon I catch on skein are hooked around the perimeter of the upper mouth. Very few actually swallow the skein. To me, it seems as though their intention is not to eat it but to nip it, or to test it..... or as previously mentioned to destroy it. 

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I catch quite a few casting plugs and they generally destroy it. Just bone jarring hits. But a couple of times I've felt little ticks as I'm bringing it back to the boat and once it gets in sight range I can see a king following it just nipping at it. Strange to see and haven't hooked either of the fish I saw doing it.

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I river fish, have for many years.

 

Salmon breathe rapidly when in the rivers ... so I'd say the majority of hook ups are simply placing the hook in the right place at the right time.

No doubt, many salmon are snagged.

 

However, I have also see with my very own eyes salmon aggressively striking a bait (flies, lures, eggs). I mean the incidents are where salmon are a good

6 feet away from the bait and actually dart out and grab it ... I've seen it in clear water.  I've seen 5 guys at a whole with roe, and then one guy comes along

with a fly, and suddenly they are interested in that one bait ... won't touch the roe, but the fly is on fire. I speculate that this is out of irritation, and possibly some feeding.

I do know for a fact that first thing in the morning they seem to be more active than later in the morning.  Perhaps they have some hunger when they wake up

but after that they have no appetite?

 

Anyhow, I think the only real legit technique that works is to try and tick them off ... bright colors, keep moving past them, erratic baits.

 

 

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2 hours ago, TyeeTanic said:

I river fish, have for many years.

 

Salmon breathe rapidly when in the rivers ... so I'd say the majority of hook ups are simply placing the hook in the right place at the right time.

No doubt, many salmon are snagged.

 

However, I have also see with my very own eyes salmon aggressively striking a bait (flies, lures, eggs). I mean the incidents are where salmon are a good

6 feet away from the bait and actually dart out and grab it ... I've seen it in clear water.  I've seen 5 guys at a whole with roe, and then one guy comes along

with a fly, and suddenly they are interested in that one bait ... won't touch the roe, but the fly is on fire. I speculate that this is out of irritation, and possibly some feeding.

I do know for a fact that first thing in the morning they seem to be more active than later in the morning.  Perhaps they have some hunger when they wake up

but after that they have no appetite?

 

Anyhow, I think the only real legit technique that works is to try and tick them off ... bright colors, keep moving past them, erratic baits.

 

 

I disagree with the fact they are just breathing it in most of the time . 

 

I been fishing a spot with up to 10 other anglers and one or 2 guys are getting fish and the others aren't . 

 

Just because you are fishing eggs doesn't mean you are fishing the right eggs . 

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While I agree with HB2, 2 guys could be " expert flossers" and the other guys could be legit anglers.  I've never said that snagging (which flossing is) isn't more effective, just that it is a poacher's game, illegal and unsportsmanlike.  Of course, you really don't see flossers in a river like the Genesee, because it is impossible most of the time to see the mouth movements that are reported ( I really don't see that even in clear water, I think it is just more rationalization for the " hero snagger" types) so the snaggers there just snag!  But I have definitely seen the superiority of one cure of red skein down there, I'd tell you what it is but the guys using it are pretty tight lipped, kind of like the salmon a good part of the day! I have also noticed that the fish bite better at dawn, but they have just had the darkness period of not being harrassed continuously by lines and baits, I've never seen anything about fish sleeping, and especially sleeping only in the dark hours.  I agree that they move, sometimes great distances like 6 or 8 feet, to take a bait or lure.  And for the old "they don't feed, they don't bite" crowd, no they don't feed, and they don't bite continuously, but what fish that isn't starving or living in a stressed (not enough food) environment, does?   Fish for pike at midday in August, how do you do? 

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Lucky, as a self-reported steelhead and Atlantic salmon fisherman, would you include yourself in this indictment that all trib anglers are flossers?  As A fly fisherman, I can tell you a swung fly under slight tension is the most efficient flossing tool out there. Chances are you have recognized the nuance of a fairly fished dead drift or an upstream streamer presentation that has very little chance of snagging fish. If you except that these methods as fair practice, then you have to recognize that egg fishermen can catch fish without flossing. The whole center pin revolution is based on a true dead drifted bait. 

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I did not say anywhere that all trib anglers are flossers. I said that in HB2's scenario, if the fish were not in a biting mood, the two catching a lot of fish might be flossers.   In a subsequent sentence I spoke to the guys with the red cure who are catching fish quite frequently.  Gil, maybe you should go for a job at the New York Times.  As to swung flies, are you saying that all fish caught on the swing have been flossed?  This will sit poorly with Atlantic Salmon fishermen on both sides of the ocean, and a lot of west coast steelhead fishermen, who have been swinging flies with no add'l weight for centuries and catching anadromous salmonids.  The dead drift and upstream streamer can be used to foul hook fish, more efficiently than a swing, substitute a piece of sponge and you have the Naples lift rig down to a T, but the "nuanced" modern snagger just lets the bait drift a little behind the head of a visible fish and then sets.  I suppose if someone wants to cheat they can use most any method.

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