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Why a speed and temp unit is critical


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4 hours ago, Gregger300 said:

Thanks a lot...you just cost me a bunch of money!


Wrong!  Cost savings in gas will pay for the unit because you will limit out sooner.  At least that is what you tell the wife!

Edited by Gill-T
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52 minutes ago, Gill-T said:


Wrong!  Cost savings in gas will pay for the unit because you will limit out sooner.  At least that is what you tell the wife!

 

 The problem with that is she will be expecting you home earlier to possibly do more yard work. 

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Great video. Glad I watched. This pic is from last Saturday lake trout fishing while trying to maintain down speed of 1.4-1.8.  Surface speed was bouncing from 0-.3   

A8472FE7-89AC-412F-9BE0-AA4D9048B123.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Bozeman Bob said:

 

 The problem with that is she will be expecting you home earlier to possibly do more yard work. 

Almost impossible to get a true boat limit on Lake O.  Try getting an Atlantic for everyone in the boat in one trip!  

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So at the risk of appearing stupid ... at least on Seneca Lake I was under the impression that one needed a lure (spoon) to appear as if it was injured ... thereby the bit slower trolling speed seemed like it would be more productive ... no?

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 Neo1945 In my opinion you just kinda nailed it.Some lures are very speed forgiving some your speed has to be spot on.  The exact speed for one MFG might be different than another MFG. Bend a spoon catching a fish, Change the hooks. Whats the speed? Take this advise from a guy that is not going to buy anymore $$$$$  probes..... 

 

Yes I know fishhawks have helped some guys....   Not trying to offend anyone.

 

 

 

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The currents are at a different level of power compared to the fingers. Yes, you can look at downrigger cable angle or dipsy rod bend or the thump of a dodger with a drop weight but each spoon has a sweet spot where a triggering action happens. It might be the difference of .25 mph. You are not going to be able to accurately measure a .25 mph difference by looking at your dipsy angle. One of the reasons flasher flies had grown in popularity over two decades is that speed becomes less critical compared to a spoon presentation. 

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As with much of fishing there are a lot of assumptions being made in lieu of being able to directly observe or interview the fish. The video above is instructive in a lot of ways. It illustrates the fact that going with the current kills the action of some if not most lures. It also reinforces the fact that when in such a state increasing speed can accentuate lure action in a down current. Underwater currents are complex in operation and not always easy to figure out from the boat as they can go in multiple directions at once too and we make a lot of inferences or assumptions about what they are doing to our tackle. The Fishhawk assists in making a judgement about where the lure is running and the speed of the downrigger weight through the water basically and this can be compared with the GPS speed of the boat over bottom so an assumption can be made about strength and direction of underwater current. The desired speed of trolling is often taken for granted as being the effective speed that we think the lure operates say 2.2 mph, but that speed may affect a given spoon or stick in radically different ways under the water in the various currents where it isn't actually visible to us and also back from the weight because of the distance placed there (e.g. long setback and bow in line etc.). All the while we are assuming the lure is operating at whatever speed we had desired without any real evidence that it is actually running at that particular speed that the weight is OR that is running optimally action-wise. The video approach can help clear that last thing up but it isn't practical to do with every lure either.

I use a Fishhawk X4D along with my depth finder as tools in trying to figure things out, but I also recognize the limitations in totally relying on any of them in figuring things out down there. People often want to simplify situations by limiting their input of information and this is one of those circumstances.  A lot of time can be spent fixating on these electronic devices and forgetting to fish comprehensively and that is more effort paying attention to detail, monitoring the wind and water conditions, observing objects on the water and their path, observing changes in equipment, and many other variables that can be just as important as the data from the devices.

Bottom line: all these devices no matter how sophisticated are merely "tools" with which to make "assumptions"or "estimations"and some are more reliable than others but none of them should be treated as "gospel" either.

One of the things I found of interest in this video and many others I have seen is the apparent difficulty that fish often have in grabbing a lure in front of them traveling sideways and I am wondering if it is because of the positioning of their eyes which doesn't afford them binocular vision which is required for depth perception and maybe not related to just the speed factor.

Edited by Sk8man
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5 minutes ago, Sk8man said:

As with much of fishing there are a lot of assumptions being made in lieu of being able to directly observe or interview the fish. The video above is instructive in a lot of ways. It illustrates the fact that going with the current kills the action of some if not most lures. It also reinforces the fact that when in such a state increasing speed can accentuate lure action in a down current. Underwater currents are complex in operation and not always easy to figure out from the boat as they can go in multiple directions at once too and we make a lot of inferences or assumptions about what they are doing to our tackle. The Fishhawk assists in making a judgement about where the lure is running and the speed of the downrigger weight through the water basically and this can be compared with the GPS speed of the boat over bottom so an assumption can be made about strength and direction of underwater current. The desired speed of trolling is often taken for granted as being the effective speed that we think the lure operates say 2.2 mph, but that speed may affect a given spoon or stick in radically different ways under the water in the various currents where it isn't actually visible to us and also back from the weight because of the distance placed there (e.g. long setback and bow in line etc.). All the while we are assuming the lure is operating at whatever speed we had desired without any real evidence that it is actually running at that particular speed that the weight is OR that is running optimally action-wise. The video approach can help clear that last thing up but it isn't practical to do with every lure either.

I use a Fishhawk X4D along with my depth finder as tools in trying to figure things out, but I also recognize the limitations in totally relying on any of them in figuring things out down there. People often want to simplify situations by limiting their input of information and this is one of those circumstances.  A lot of time can be spent fixating on these electronic devices and forgetting to fish comprehensively and that is more effort paying attention to detail, monitoring the wind and water conditions, observing objects on the water and their path, observing changes in equipment, and many other variables that can be just as important as the data from the devices.

Bottom line: all these devices no matter how sophisticated are merely "tools" with which to make "assumptions"or "estimations"and some are more reliable than others but none of them should be treated as "gospel" either.

As always, well said Les. Sometimes we get caught up in all the gadgets we have on board and forget about the basics we learned when we didn't have all the bells and whistles but still caught lots of fish. 

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Another great " Bottom Line " sk8man ! Captain Dan Keating in his most recent book " Big Water Wisdom " discusses this in some detail currents and there importance plus extoling the virtues of speed and temperature probes .IMO pays your money and take your chances but do not " forget about the basics " !

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Don't give up on it Stan It is coming along tough part now is pics, tables  and diagrams etc. and I've taken long breaks away from it to fish:lol:

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I have no idea why but even on the Fingers as well it has always been that way for me. Unless during a derby etc. I don't even bother fishing in an east wind and I don't think it is just "superstition".

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My take is the reversing effect  on currents with the resulting changes to water temp and oxygen levels. The fish don’t leave the lake (obviously) but pelagics can get pushed clear out into the next county. I used to stay home during East winds out of frustration. Now I have a few spots I go to to fish in an East wind. Keep in mind the large outflows are carrying oxygenated, warmer water that can have a stabilizing effect so sometimes it is best to find where the river water is hanging out. 

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