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16 minutes ago, Tall Tails said:

They stocked Rome fish in more central and western basin area's.  However the eastern basin has been getting Rome Browns for many many years.  That is not the issue.  We have a HUGE class of 2yr old alewives.  Perfect size for the BT to enjoy and very unstable weather in April.  I think it is a combination of the two.  Lets not sound alarm bells till we aren't catching them in June and July.

 

I there's plenty of data to sound the alarm bells. I could see if Rochester was still catching them, but we fish dirty water and they're not there. You can fish warm water discharges, and they're not there. Good days have been 2-5 bites in colored water. Those days typically yield 20+ bites. We have a missing class of fish becasue when you do catch one it's quality.

 

16 minutes ago, GAMBLER said:

One other thing that could be going on is they are eating gobies.  I have noticed in other clear water spring years, browns seem to scatter in deeper water and feed on gobies. ( I have caught a bunch of browns over the years laker fishing at this time of the year).  I hope you are right Brian.  Last summer when I was brown fishing in June, July and August, we caught very very few stockers compared to past years.  

 

They've been eating gobies for many many years. We catch them all Winter with bellies full of Gobies, but they still hit sticks and spoons that don't resemble Gobies in the Spring. We've had some great colored water off Rochester and the bite is non-existent.

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5 minutes ago, Yankee Troller said:

 

I there's plenty of data to sound the alarm bells. I could see if Rochester was still catching them, but we fish dirty water and they're not there. You can fish warm water discharges, and they're not there. Good days have been 2-5 bites in colored water. Those days typically yield 20+ bites. We have a missing class of fish becasue when you do catch one it's quality.

 

 

They've been eating gobies for many many years. We catch them all Winter with bellies full of Gobies, but they still hit sticks and spoons that don't resemble Gobies in the Spring. We've had some great colored water off Rochester and the bite is non-existent.

What I'm saying is they could have moved to deeper water.  We have been getting a huge abundance of 1-2" gobies in our intake recently.  That is not the norm.  

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6 minutes ago, GAMBLER said:

What I'm saying is they could have moved to deeper water.  We have been getting a huge abundance of 1-2" gobies in our intake recently.  That is not the norm.  

What is the temp at that intake this time of year? Probably too cold for browns I would guess

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19 minutes ago, UNREEL said:

What is the temp at that intake this time of year? Probably too cold for browns I would guess

Its 45 right now.  What's too cold?  I have caught browns in the spring in 39 degree water.  Its about food.  If the food is there, water temp will not matter.  

Edited by GAMBLER
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2 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

What I'm saying is they could have moved to deeper water.  We have been getting a huge abundance of 1-2" gobies in our intake recently.  That is not the norm.  

I think you are both right. There was some decent numbers around until we had all that east wind and the water cleared up. I have been getting out since March 9th and have put 100 browns or more in the boat and not one under 5 or 6 pounds.  Something is up 

Edited by shawn393
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8 hours ago, Yankee Troller said:

My opinion is something happened with recent stockings. The fish you do catch are all quality older fish, but those smaller Brown Trout just aren't there. 

Agree. I know in Oswego the cormorants were having a field day with Brown stockings a couple of years ago and all the DEC guys could do was watch so I'm not surprised at all that there are less browns in that area.

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They need to barge stock browns and spread them out so they stand a chance. Stocked browns are pretty stubborn when it comes to movement after they are stocked. They are sitting ducks for weeks. In streams I’ve seen browns never leave the same hole they were stocked in the spring and be there right through fall. Between the cormorants, blue herons and fisherman  last year I watched the browns that they stocked at Webster park get absolutely hammered for weeks on end. It was like opening day of trout season there. I was also surprised at how easy the blue herons could pluck browns out of the stream just standing there. For the amount of money and effort it takes to raise them it would be wise to take the extra step to run them out on a barge or tow them out in a pen so they stand 1/2 a chance. The ROI from Shore stocking is a huge miss IMO.  The brown fishing should be phenomenal this spring after seeing very little fishing pressure last year. Doesn’t seem to be the case. 

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Brian those gobies are from 6' to 160' of water water. Their bellies always have the juvenile gobies in them, later on bigger ones. Food is all over the shoreline and so should the mix year class of browns. The 1yr' olds are far and very few in between. Something has happened. We can all come up with theories but they (biologist} really should figure this out so this doesn't happen in the future. I agree with you A- lure-A 100%.

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Brian those gobies are from 6' to 160' of water water. Their bellies always have the juvenile gobies in them, later on bigger ones. Food is all over the shoreline and so should the mix year class of browns. The 1yr' olds are far and very few in between. Something has happened. We can all come up with theories but they (biologist} really should figure this out so this doesn't happen in the future. I agree with you A- lure-A 100%.

It’s the Covid Bruce. All the fish are double masked this year.....


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1 hour ago, Silver Fox said:

It’s the Covid Bruce. All the fish are double masked this year.....

 

I think it has more to do with "Social Distancing"...

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On 4/20/2021 at 2:13 PM, GAMBLER said:

Its 45 right now.  What's too cold?  I have caught browns in the spring in 39 degree water.  Its about food.  If the food is there, water temp will not matter.  

39 deg? Hmm. I would say that’s the exception rather than the rule. Plenty of bait around the I-Bay outlet. There is something going on with the juvenile browns. We noticed a downturn last year. Could the cormorants have put a hurting on a whole year class of browns from 2019-2020? Big flocks of them in I-Bay already this year herding schools of you name it

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4 hours ago, UNREEL said:

39 deg? Hmm. I would say that’s the exception rather than the rule. Plenty of bait around the I-Bay outlet. There is something going on with the juvenile browns. We noticed a downturn last year. Could the cormorants have put a hurting on a whole year class of browns from 2019-2020? Big flocks of them in I-Bay already this year herding schools of you name it

My point is in certain situations, brown (kings, lakers, steelhead, coho, atlantics) will leave the preferred water in certain conditions and move to where there is plentiful amounts of food.  With the clear water and the calm sunny stretch we had two weeks ago, the browns may have moved off the shoreline to deeper water.  I have found browns scattered over deeper water at this time of the year before feeding on gobies.  In the spring of 2013, we found browns in 40-70 on the bottom at this time of the year off Sandy.  The inside waters were clear and the browns were not around.  I don't ever remember an April with this little colored water either.  I do agree the stockers from last year seem to be MIA.  We caught zero fishing browns last summer.  I did watch the DEC stock browns near our pump station and the cormorants pounded that water for days after they were released.  I hope we are wrong about the stockers and everything is ok.  With the king stocking cuts, browns will be a staple for everyone to get through a season or two at some point. 

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I don't have a clue about the smaller browns but I think Brian may be right about the larger ones.  Even in the Finger Lakes the browns often can be found in that 30-80 ft or so right near bottom and near pods of small alewives with perch also mixed in feeding on them. The common mistake is to think they are lakers on bottom much as the case for mistaking kings near bottom for lakers in Lake O during the summer in the ice water. The browns have a pretty varied diet too so shad, fatheads emeralds etc. may be out there deeper too so they may be getting a break from the gobies:lol:.

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Brian and Les, several of us have fished the water you are talking about to no avail. The only water i have not been into is the 180' plus. In all of my years i have never caught browns out there or never had to do it. We have had a ton of colored water at the genny one side or the other very few fish.;(

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And the puzzle continues....:smile:.  I haven't seen anything on here that indicates that the browns are being seen in numbers near or in tribs after the rainbow eggs either. Puzzling but disturbing as well. The only time I have ever caught a brown out in the real deep water was here on Canandaigua Lake during the month of June and it was on a Seth Green rig and the fish was about 40 ft down. They are much more "home bodies" than Atlantics etc. Especially troubling is the lack of small browns being caught for awhile now. The uptick in the cormorant population in last few years taking its toll? Any relationship to the dwindling population of smelt in the shallows at this time of year (ongoing for quite a few years)?

Edited by Sk8man
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The cormorants are the main culprits. These stocker browns school up and the cormorants just decimate them. When you see hundreds of birds on a school for a week, how many could be left? Down on Lake Marion in SC they recognized the cormorants were eating their bass, they opened a season on them and killed 250,000 the first year. No more problem! Until NY grows a set and deals with this problem, we will continue to use taxpayer money to feed these birds. DDT was bad, but since it is out of the environment now, these birds have overpopulated and all the fisheries are paying the price.

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22 minutes ago, bacatit said:

The cormorants are the main culprits. These stocker browns school up and the cormorants just decimate them. When you see hundreds of birds on a school for a week, how many could be left? Down on Lake Marion in SC they recognized the cormorants were eating their bass, they opened a season on them and killed 250,000 the first year. No more problem! Until NY grows a set and deals with this problem, we will continue to use taxpayer money to feed these birds. DDT was bad, but since it is out of the environment now, these birds have overpopulated and all the fisheries are paying the price.

Can you provide a source for the 250k harvest for the cormorants?  They are under federal control.  The states literally have no say other then to apply for a limited harvest permit which ends up in 1200 range... I am not doubting you but would like to see where the feds authorized a 250k harvest on the cormorants.  Our DEC hands are completely tied when it comes to those birds.  They beg us in meetings to reach out to our officials and apply pressure.

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Over the last few years I have caught brown trout 60 feet down over 200 feet of water. When the winds push the warmer water of shore the browns will move right along. Specially when that warmer water is full of bait. So it is really possible that with this last winter's wind patterns they are miles off shore where you would not expect them. There is also mention of plentiful bait close to shore which lessens the need for food competition,ergo, why go after something strange while plentyful known food is all around. Did anybody try to fish with live bait? That might provide some answers

Edited by rolmops
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I guess I should have been more specific:lol: The one I caught was down 40 ft over 200 ft. When I used the term deep I meant as in Lake O deep 300 -700 plus:smile:

Edited by Sk8man
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