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9 hours ago, Sk8man said:

One of the things ignored here is the question of what are the long term  currently unknown effects on the brain and nervous system of contracting even a mild case of covid regardless of strain? The fact that many folks contracting the virus lose their sense of smell and experience other brain/nervous system/respiratory problems suggests that exposure to covid in and of itself may be a worse risk than the potential side effects of the vaccine. There is no data to evaluate at this point in the situation. At least the potential side effects that may affect a percentage of the population (as with nearly any medication or supplement or allergen etc are presently known or suspected and some can be treated. Neurological sequelae the extent to which someone may be living with over time and perhaps unknowingly deteriorating is a significant and largely unknown risk, and like being subjected to the chicken pox virus in the past as a child and then dealing with shingles later in life because the live virus has resided in the system over time. The impact on children's nervous system during the formative years is another significant concern  and so are the concerns regarding the vaccine for them in particular but that is the case with pretty much any medication as it is with the elderly. It is truly unfortunate that so much inaccurate information is out there these days, and the various agendas being  pushed off on us and a lack of fidelity and honesty in the media and journalism as it has contaminated our ability to accurately assess or verify what is going on at this point. The similarity to the "Wikipedia" with the ability to edit the facts and reliance on the information presented does not escape me.

I’ll bet the same people wrapping street blocks packed together wondering if they have covid and waiting to be tested will be the same ones on their 5 booster complaining about long covid. 

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fauci is nothing more than a political puppet.he doesnt talk science,he just spews fear mongering garbage handed down to him from the lefty dictatorship.

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1 hour ago, Gator said:

You can not trust him all you like, but that still doesn't make everything he says a lie. The goalposts do change. Our understanding evolves, and not being perfect beings, we also make mistakes. By loudly proclaiming your distrust, you simply encourage others to do one better. And the gap widens. I've seem way more accusations of manipulation and fraud this past year than I've actually seen manipulation and fraud. And I will also go out on a limb and say that in my conversations with others, I often find that if I get too technical in what I say, misunderstanding abound. You've got to give Fauchi some credit for having the right background and training to be able to make health care determinations based on science and fact. His record has proven his worth.

 

And one final point. Fauchi has a job. His job is to put the health of the American people first. Would you expect the NRA to consider how guns affect drug violence, and soften their position thereby? No, they are built for one thing, to uphold gun rights. So is Fauchi. It's up to the politicians to weigh his message. If you want to blame someone, point your finger in the right direction.

Faucci has ignored, purposely, natural immunity #s. In leaked emails he is doing narrative control ops. He is demanding voices be silenced, not debated. He lied about gain of function funding. These people crapped over the constitution day in and day out. He is a fear monger. He has hurt public health. He is a bureaucrat. Biden just admitted that the Feds can do nothing helpful any longer. That speaks to Faucci. 

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 I think Fauci is falsely accused of negative action.

Let's go back a few years. During the Bush and Obama administrations there were pandemic red flags like Zika, Sars and some other types of bird flue that crossed over to humans. Thank God , those were isolated and vanquished. During the Bush and ,later , the Obama administrations there was a healthy budget that was set up to study and prevent,or at least control catastrophic viral outbreaks. In the beginning of the Trump administration that budget and the manpower working on prevention were slashed,which left us in a poor position to quickly react. After pooh poohing the covid in the beginning, the Trump administration went all out to find a cure and with enormous effort and government support the vaccines were created and mass produced. In all of this, Fauci had to restart a very emaciated CDC in order to get it to the strength it needed to be, which he did. Although lacking the complete set of information needed he tried to set up rules for an effective response to corral and control the new virus. Which he did very well considering the constantly changing character of the virus and the lack of information available.

It would have been better if he would have stayed out of the lime light.

As for natural immunity, (Sweden tried until there was so much death that they changed their policy) yes there is such a thing. At the price of many more dead people and more mutations that can be more deadly or less so. Small pox was eradicated because of vaccines and so was polio to name just a few. Those diseases would still be causing havoc if the anti-vaccers would have gained the upper hand. As long as there are un-vaccinated people there is the virus as well, probably mutating in one way or another. Every unvaccinated person should ask him or herself if they would have survived polio or small pox and if they want to be the vessel in which the next mutation will happen, with possibly disastrous effects for those they love.

Happy new year.

Edited by rolmops
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I’m afraid this post is turning into nothing different than A biased News channel for what it’s worth. If you have questions or concerns about getting the vaccine, talk to your doctor or health care provider.  They can provide you accurate information that is in Yours and your family’s best interest.  They can also inform you what to do in the event you become ill and steps to take to reduce spreading the virus etc.  I would suggest not getting your guidance or information from a social media site that is not accredited. No hard feelings gang. 

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1 hour ago, rolmops said:

 I think Fauci is falsely accused of negative action.

Let's go back a few years. During the Bush and Obama administrations there were pandemic red flags like Zika, Sars and some other types of bird flue that crossed over to humans. Thank God , those were isolated and vanquished. During the Bush and ,later , the Obama administrations there was a healthy budget that was set up to study and prevent,or at least control catastrophic viral outbreaks. In the beginning of the Trump administration that budget and the manpower working on prevention were slashed,which left us in a poor position to quickly react. After pooh poohing the covid in the beginning, the Trump administration went all out to find a cure and with enormous effort and government support the vaccines were created and mass produced. In all of this, Fauci had to restart a very emaciated CDC in order to get it to the strength it needed to be, which he did. Although lacking the complete set of information needed he tried to set up rules for an effective response to corral and control the new virus. Which he did very well considering the constantly changing character of the virus and the lack of information available.

It would have been better if he would have stayed out of the lime light.

As for natural immunity, (Sweden tried until there was so much death that they changed their policy) yes there is such a thing. At the price of many more dead people and more mutations that can be more deadly or less so. Small pox was eradicated because of vaccines and so was polio to name just a few. Those diseases would still be causing havoc if the anti-vaccers would have gained the upper hand. As long as there are un-vaccinated people there is the virus as well, probably mutating in one way or another. Every unvaccinated person should ask him or herself if they would have survived polio or small pox and if they want to be the vessel in which the next mutation will happen, with possibly disastrous effects for those they love.

Happy new year.

Did you not watch the interview I posted with Fauci?  This is my beef.  They are counting children that come into the hospital for broken legs and other non covid issues as covid hospitalizations if they test positive for covid.  He openly admits that.   They are not being hospitalized.  They are being treated for a broken leg and released.  The problem I have with this is, the numbers of children's hospitalizations falsely goes up, our news media spews these inflated numbers and people panic.  Causing false panic is a problem.  If you want to track these cases, do it.  Make a separate category for them.  Lumping them in a different category to cause a false rise in numbers should concern everyone.   Cuomo falsely reporting nursing home deaths is another one.  These are two examples that we know about.  How many more are there?   If you look at the numbers out of Sweden, they are far less deaths per 1 million people than the US.  Comparing countries with sickness is tough.  Different age demographics, different life styles and different quality health care makes a big difference.  Comparing Covid to Small pox and Polio is not comparing apples to apples.  Different diseases, different vaccinations.  How many people do you know that got the vaccinations for polio and small pox still got these two diseases.  You can't compare these at all.  The only thing they have in common are they are horrible disease.   Your points about Sweden, Polio and Small Pox are moot points.   Vaccinated and unvaccinated can drive more mutations.  Vaccines do not totally stop viruses from mutating.   Read this link in the first paragraph.  Vaccines Could Drive The Evolution Of More COVID-19 Mutants : NPR.  I love how the blame goes directly to Trump yet there has been more cases and deaths under the Biden Administration.  What has Biden done to slow down Covid? Allowing covid positive illegals to pour into this country certainly helps the pandemic.....    Didn't Trump do things like operation warp speed to quicken the response times of supplies and vaccines?  He put Navy ships in NYC and LA just incase hospitals got overwhelmed.  Where are they now?  We have packed hospitals yet no support from the federal government.   Bidens hands off approach and sending the responsibility to the states is a great way to handle a pandemic.  A true leader wouldn't pass the buck.  Trump may have been a bone head in many ways, at least he didnt turn his back on the people of this country during a time the country needed a leader to get things done.  

Edited by GAMBLER
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The way I see it, if you want to get vaccinated and it makes you feel comfortable, do it and that’s cool. If you don’t want to get vaccinated and you are comfortable with it, that’s cool too. 
Vaccinated and unvaccinated alike spread the virus. Look at professional sports right now. 
This going back and forth is what is destroying us. 
Its hard to know what is true nowadays as everyone twists the truth to fit the narrative they want people to hear. 
In the end, do what you are comfortable with, and do your best to keep others safe

Edited by fisherman21
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My original post was how the booster made me , and my son who said it was as bad as he has ever felt , affected us . My wife , nothing . 

 

So how can anyone say that this vaccine can have no long lasting side effects ? Maybe worse than the virus.  This remains to be seen . Back in the day they told us Sacrin and cigarettes were safe for gods sake .and there is a long list .  So don't be so quick to throw those that are anti Vax under the bus.  

 

And Fauci is a deucsh bag .  Trump should have fired him . 

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Something I have wondered about and again I’m with HB, if you look at the world deaths by country, Like Canada for example or New Zealand…. Does the US ever look at other countries and go how the Heck can their deaths be so low, I understand the populations are way different, are we trying to reinvent the wheel. Wish I hope we aren’t as arrogant as that…. Woody

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39 minutes ago, fisherman21 said:

The way I see it, if you want to get vaccinated and it makes you feel comfortable, do it and that’s cool. If you don’t want to get vaccinated and you are comfortable with it, that’s cool too. 
Vaccinated and unvaccinated alike spread the virus. Look at professional sports right now. 
This going back and forth is what is destroying us. 
Its hard to know what is true nowadays as everyone twists the truth to fit the narrative they want people to hear. 
In the end, so what you are comfortable with, and do your best to keep others safe

Yes!!! This overwhelming need to be right - it's the root of our largest problem, that is, the inability to communicate effectively with each other. We don't listen, don't want to admit that our opponents may have valid pointe, don't want to recognize that not everything is black and white. Brian makes a good point above: the devil is in the details. I suspect that most of us are much closer to each other than we think, and that we'd be even closer if we sat down over a beer to talk about this stuff. Online forums are a horrible way to communicate, as they promote dogma and lack nuance. How can you listen if you're not even using your ears lol?

 

But forums like LOU are a great way to report where the fish are biting hint, hint!

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4 minutes ago, woody 184 said:

Something I have wondered about and again I’m with HB, if you look at the world deaths by country, Like Canada for example or New Zealand…. Does the US ever look at other countries and go how the Heck can their deaths be so low, I understand the populations are way different, are we trying to reinvent the wheel. Wish I hope we aren’t as arrogant as that…. Woody

Comparing different countries in a case like this is tough.  There are tons of factors.  Health care, over all health of the population, average age of the population, population density, ect.  

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50 minutes ago, GAMBLER said:

Bidens hands off approach and sending the responsibility to the states is a great way to handle a pandemic.  A true leader wouldn't pass the buck.  Trump may have been a bone head in many ways, at least he didnt turn his back on the people of this country during a time the country needed a leader to get things done.  

hah, hah, hah.....Ivan poo-poo'd the whole thing. (as he told woodward)  Remember: "Hong-Kong flu will disappear by May."  Ivan tried to take credit for vax & got boo'd at his own rally.  

 

This is too plitical!

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Gator makes a great point about the lack of effectiveness of communicating via email, Internet posts, etc. Nothing beats face to face communication about important issues  or concerns where facial expressions, intonation of speech body language and many other important cues to learning can take place. Underlyuing this whole topic is emotional fear  which clouds reason and logic regardless of the position taken. It really is time to get back to fishing:lol:

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4 hours ago, finsntins said:

fauci is nothing more than a political puppet.he doesnt talk science,he just spews fear mongering garbage handed down to him from the lefty dictatorship.

Having just posted about trying to understand your rival's position, as a scientist I feel like I need to respond to this, troll-like as it seems. Just to set the record straight.

 

Fauci is the head of a branch of the NIH that has been charged with a very specific mission - to "seek fundamental knowledge about the nature and behavior of living systems and the application of that knowledge to enhance health, lengthen life, and reduce illness and disability." He does not have any legislative authority, beyond the bully pulpit. He can't enact mandates. His job is to advise, and always with the intent of promoting public health first. He has the difficult task of acting as a conduit between scientists and politicians, many who haven't thought about these things since high school biology. He is not self-autonomous, but instead integrates information widely from peer reviewed consensus among folks who have trained their whole life. Like it or lump it, his messages reflect expert opinion. He recognizes, with some humor in fact, that he is a recognizable face for his opponents to castigate. I don't always agree with his opinions or tactics, but I respect him for his service. In fact, I think people's opinion of Fauci speaks more to them than to the man himself.

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18 minutes ago, Gator said:

Yes!!! This overwhelming need to be right - it's the root of our largest problem, that is, the inability to communicate effectively with each other. We don't listen, don't want to admit that our opponents may have valid pointe, don't want to recognize that not everything is black and white. Brian makes a good point above: the devil is in the details. I suspect that most of us are much closer to each other than we think, and that we'd be even closer if we sat down over a beer to talk about this stuff. Online forums are a horrible way to communicate, as they promote dogma and lack nuance. How can you listen if you're not even using your ears lol?

 

But forums like LOU are a great way to report where the fish are biting hint, hint!

they were biting in mexico bay yesterday!!!!

IMG_5147.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Gator said:

Having just posted about trying to understand your rival's position, as a scientist I feel like I need to respond to this, troll-like as it seems. Just to set the record straight.

 

Fauci is the head of a branch of the NIH that has been charged with a very specific mission - to "seek fundamental knowledge about the nature and behavior of living systems and the application of that knowledge to enhance health, lengthen life, and reduce illness and disability." He does not have any legislative authority, beyond the bully pulpit. He can't enact mandates. His job is to advise, and always with the intent of promoting public health first. He has the difficult task of acting as a conduit between scientists and politicians, many who haven't thought about these things since high school biology. He is not self-autonomous, but instead integrates information widely from peer reviewed consensus among folks who have trained their whole life. Like it or lump it, his messages reflect expert opinion. He recognizes, with some humor in fact, that he is a recognizable face for his opponents to castigate. I don't always agree with his opinions or tactics, but I respect him for his service. In fact, I think people's opinion of Fauci speaks more to them than to the man himself.

well i have no respect for him,yes we all no what his job is,but instead of getting honest scientific data from him,we get fear mongering garbage that is handed down to him from his string handlers.

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29 minutes ago, LongLine said:

hah, hah, hah.....Ivan poo-poo'd the whole thing. (as he told woodward)  Remember: "Hong-Kong flu will disappear by May."  Ivan tried to take credit for vax & got boo'd at his own rally.  

 

This is too plitical!

its not all political,its mostly monetary now.we know that the lefty socialist party is in bed with big pharma,so as long as the lefty socialist party keeps selling shots for big pharma,they will keep recieving billions of our tax dollars.its a brilliant plan that unfortunatly is working

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59 minutes ago, LongLine said:

hah, hah, hah.....Ivan poo-poo'd the whole thing. (as he told woodward)  Remember: "Hong-Kong flu will disappear by May."  Ivan tried to take credit for vax & got boo'd at his own rally.  

 

This is too plitical!

What has Biden done to slow down or stop this pandemic? I'll wait.  Remember when the current administration said they wouldn't take a vaccine that was made under the Trump administration because they didn't trust Trump.  Now they are pushing and mandating these same vaccines.   Remember when Biden said he was going to shutdown covid?   Like I said before, the man was a bonehead most of the time, but sometimes you have to put your feelings aside and look what he did during the pandemic compared to the job the current administration has done.  As much as I hated Cuomo, I can at least put my feelings aside and see the positives that he did in the pandemic.  Getting prepared with ventilators and other emergency supplies was a smart thing to do for the people of his state.  

Edited by GAMBLER
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I hope, and pray, at the end of this thread we can all agree NO MANDATES, NO PASSPORTS, NO MORE EMERGENCY ORDERS that restrict us. The baseline data is mangled. The govt is spending and printing our dollar so that it is losing value and our tax burden will rise. We are getting burnt at both ends. The fact is, behemoths like Black Rock and Vanguard and the major banks get essentially free money to rig our markets. They own huge portions of the pharmas, insurance companies, big six media corps, social media corps, and have the politicians in their pockets. We are arguing their constructed narratives. They are robbing our voices, wealth, and we are very much at a fork in the road with the new technology that is here. That’s why our heads are spinning. They are at a cusp of losing their control. Just like invention of the printing press created massive censorship, so to will major blowback happen with the advent of DeFi, open source decentralization projects, and a growing parallel economy. We can walk ourselves into a cage with blockchain based central bank digital currencies, IoT devices, and a myriad of other new bio techs that I believe will destroy our privacy, rights, and good nature. OR we can use the other fork in the road this tech offers and lock them out and escape this fiat money driven rigged game that has us in the current stranglehold we are in. Letting mandates take hold will be us essentially tapping out. I personally believe, as a person with natural disagreeable tendencies, thus high skepticism something stinks to high hell-these new therapies being a means to an end that has 0 to do with health.  A lot of people are naturally agreeable, they see compliance as a means to an end of a pandemic. I get it, I understand, but please, the canary is croaking in NYC with these mandates. This sort of categorizing of people by way of a pharmacological stamp, an assumption of sickness before being able to participate in an economy is NOT a public health measure. It is a means to find the weeds that need to be plucked from the totalitarians utopian garden of obedience. 
 

P.S. reef runner bite is hot in the golden crescent. The Canadians can go eff off, we got our own Bay of Quinte. 

Edited by McWally
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10 hours ago, woody 184 said:

Something I have wondered about and again I’m with HB, if you look at the world deaths by country, Like Canada for example or New Zealand…. Does the US ever look at other countries and go how the Heck can their deaths be so low, I understand the populations are way different, are we trying to reinvent the wheel. Wish I hope we aren’t as arrogant as that…. Woody

We had a 4x birth rate with boomers. Their average age now is 74ish. Americans are also in a tail spin of obesity and obesity related diseases. In addition, we are in an opioid epidemic. We are in a grand finally of that opioid epidemic with overseas fentanyl being the primary drug and now carfantanyl (sp.) has entered the scene. The lockdowns have increased suicide rates, drug abuse, poverty, and mental illness-all increase death rates. And as Gambler mentioned, just about anything can be called a covid case. NY, NJ, MI and Penn had nursing home debacles. And I’ll say it again, Vaers, an underreported tool is at 20,000 deaths. By the way, false reporting to Vaers is a felony and Pfizer unblinded their control groups, so I don’t know where else you’re supposed to responsibly asses risk without being called a conspiracy right wing extremist. Sooooooo, add a crummy pcr test, incentivize hospital admins to check a box, and that’s a whole lot of dry tinder.  

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18 hours ago, Gator said:

Having just posted about trying to understand your rival's position, as a scientist I feel like I need to respond to this, troll-like as it seems. Just to set the record straight.

 

Fauci is the head of a branch of the NIH that has been charged with a very specific mission - to "seek fundamental knowledge about the nature and behavior of living systems and the application of that knowledge to enhance health, lengthen life, and reduce illness and disability." He does not have any legislative authority, beyond the bully pulpit. He can't enact mandates. His job is to advise, and always with the intent of promoting public health first. He has the difficult task of acting as a conduit between scientists and politicians, many who haven't thought about these things since high school biology. He is not self-autonomous, but instead integrates information widely from peer reviewed consensus among folks who have trained their whole life. Like it or lump it, his messages reflect expert opinion. He recognizes, with some humor in fact, that he is a recognizable face for his opponents to castigate. I don't always agree with his opinions or tactics, but I respect him for his service. In fact, I think people's opinion of Fauci speaks more to them than to the man himself.

Legislative authority, can’t enact mandates, HA! Considering a bureaucracy is an institution that exercises enormous power over you but with no locus of responsibility, then you must understand at some level, you, being in the ring and all, are protected if you stay under its roof. For instance; the CDC makes vaccine recommendations. But the distinction between a recommendation and mandate immediately collapses when institutions (government agency, employer, university, school) require vaccination based on the CDC recommendation. Try to contest the rationality of these mandates, e.g., in federal court: the mandating institution just points back to the CDC recommendation. The school, business, Dr., etc., thus disclaims responsibility for the decision. But the CDC likewise disclaims responsibility: "We don't make policy; we just make recommendations." Meanwhile, the manufacture is immune from liability or harm per federal law. Thus, enormous power is exercised over your body, health, physician's license, etc., with no locus of responsibility for the decision, and no liability for the outcomes. You are left with the consequence of a decision that nobody claims to have made. Alllllll that from a little ol’ recommendation. 
 

Ha!!! Integrates information. The FDA Advisory panel voted 16-2 against boosters for the gen pop. And he and the FDA hurriedly ignored that. Hurriedly. They ignored Pfizer’s own warnings. 
 

He has said he is the human embodiment of SCIENCE and to question him, would be to deny science. That’s funny? 
 

This seriously seems like Stockholm Syndrone. 
 

He’s been good at being wrong a looooong time. 48E15469-1F68-4588-A35A-58678BA896A2.jpeg.e05e37c00abd26fa725cb00a54e36cb8.jpeg
 

 

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mcwally,you speak with too much common sense for some to understand,dosent matter if you die in a car accident,heart attack,or cancer anymore,heck doesnt even matter if you die,as long as you test postive,you are playing a part of the covid theater and thats all that matters anymore,!!!!

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2 hours ago, McWally said:

Legislative authority, can’t enact mandates, HA! Considering a bureaucracy is an institution that exercises enormous power over you but with no locus of responsibility, then you must understand at some level, you, being in the ring and all, are protected if you stay under its roof. For instance; the CDC makes vaccine recommendations. But the distinction between a recommendation and mandate immediately collapses when institutions (government agency, employer, university, school) require vaccination based on the CDC recommendation. Try to contest the rationality of these mandates, e.g., in federal court: the mandating institution just points back to the CDC recommendation. The school, business, Dr., etc., thus disclaims responsibility for the decision. But the CDC likewise disclaims responsibility: "We don't make policy; we just make recommendations." Meanwhile, the manufacture is immune from liability or harm per federal law. Thus, enormous power is exercised over your body, health, physician's license, etc., with no locus of responsibility for the decision, and no liability for the outcomes. You are left with the consequence of a decision that nobody claims to have made. Alllllll that from a little ol’ recommendation. 
 

Ha!!! Integrates information. The FDA Advisory panel voted 16-2 against boosters for the gen pop. And he and the FDA hurriedly ignored that. Hurriedly. They ignored Pfizer’s own warnings. 
 

He has said he is the human embodiment of SCIENCE and to question him, would be to deny science. That’s funny? 
 

This seriously seems like Stockholm Syndrone. 
 

He’s been good at being wrong a looooong time. 48E15469-1F68-4588-A35A-58678BA896A2.jpeg.e05e37c00abd26fa725cb00a54e36cb8.jpeg
 

 

I fear that you have made up your mind, and nothing will sway you. I will note however that Fauci very clearly said that he is being made into the face of science, so that there's an easy scapegoat to blame, since it's hard to be mad at a field or concept. And ever since, he's been accused of claiming to be the face of science. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

There's a distinction here. But honestly, you are entitled to think and feel however you want. It's good to have folks on either side of the argument - the balance probably makes for a better decision.

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