fishfighter

At least shorelunch isn't bitter or anything

Thats nothing new in Olcott, unfortunately that has been going on for years and years. Do not know why it has never been addressed, DEC has been notified in the past and turns a blind eye, "across the creek" has a different set of rules I guess

So, just so I have the facts straight. You were in a 16' boat out in 450' fishing solo with wind and waves making it hard for you to steer the boat and hook, fight and land fish. You say the charter boat cut you off, and this has happened 3 times this year. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

To bad you didn't catch a coho to finish the slam, still looks like a fun day for sure.

Can't make it up to fish until the 2nd leg in August. Thinking about participating. Being the 1st leg is almost over and you end on Thursday, what are your total entries to date? For comparisons purposes lets say you got to 40 entries ($30 x 40= $1200) . How do you split the money among the places and divisions? I understand this is all new and you will go thru some growing pains. But a clear understanding of your prize structure might help with generating interest and additional derby entries. Thanks

The only way to get Dave's attention would be for him to see a noticeable drop in derby participation. That would be it. Message board postings ,email messages and phone calls will just go in one ear and out the other. Hit the old wallet and then I believe you would see some interest on his part. Just my 2 cents .

This is from The NY Department of health.

Here is the link:

http://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/outdoors/fish/health_advisories/docs/advisory_booklet.pdf

Lake Ontario

Whole lake

Channel catfish, carp, lake trout

over 25†and brown trout over

20â€

Don't eat

PCBs, Mirex,

Dioxin

Whole lake

Chinook salmon, rainbow trout,

white sucker, smaller lake trout,

smaller brown trout and coho

salmon over 25â€

Eat up to one meal a

month

PCBs, Mirex,

Dioxin

West of Point Breeze

White perch

Don't eat

PCBs, Mirex,

Dioxin

East of Point Breeze

White perch

Eat up to one meal a

month

PCBs, Mirex,

Dioxin

So, it looks like NY health department states one(1) meal a month is OK

Not OK is any fish from 18 mile creek.

Eighteen Mile Creek  (Niagara) All species Don't eat PCBs

 You can now look her straight in the face and say no problem with Mercury.

Here is some good info on the subject.

Health effects in humans

Dioxins build up primarily in fatty tissues over time (bioaccumulate), so even small exposures may eventually reach dangerous levels. In 1994, the US EPA reported that dioxins are a probable carcinogen, but noted that non-cancer effects (reproduction and sexual development, immune system) may pose a greater threat to human health. TCDD, the most toxic of the dibenzodioxins, is classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC). TCDD has a half-life of approximately 8 years in humans, although at high concentrations, the elimination rate is enhanced by metabolism.^[28] The health effects of dioxins are mediated by their action on a cellular receptor, the aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR).^[29]

Exposure to high levels of dioxins in humans causes a severe form of persistent acne, known as chloracne.^[30] High occupational or accidental levels of exposures to dioxins have been shown by epidemiological studies to lead to an increased risk of tumors at all sites.^[31] Other effects in humans (at high dose levels) may include:

• Developmental abnormalities in the enamel of children's teeth.^[32][33]

• Central and peripheral nervous system pathology^[34]

• Thyroid disorders^[35]

• Damage to the immune systems^[36]

• Endometriosis^[37]

• Diabetes^[38]

Recent studies have shown that high exposure to dioxins changes the ratio of male to female births among a population such that more females are born than males.^[39]

Dioxins accumulate in food chains in a fashion similar to other chlorinated compounds (bioaccumulation). This means that even small concentrations in contaminated water can be concentrated up a food chain to dangerous levels because of the long biological half life and low water solubility of dioxins.

The same type of problems occur with Mirex and PCB exposure. The thing to keep in mind is the cumlative effect of the exposure. A meal  a month a couple times a year is probably no problem. Having it a couple times a month most of the year could have some health effects down the road. The problem is when someone you know or are close too developes say diabetes or cancer,whose to say what caused it. So, when you hear uncle Harry got cancer and he has been fishing Lake Ontario for 30 years and loves his smoked salmon,it does kinda makes you think a little.

The prize structure always had me scratching my head. The emphasis was put on the fact more people will participate if everyone gets a check. The tourney fees was also a thinker. Due to the fact participation declined at the Orleans event so significantly this year the Tournament actually collected less entry fee money than they would have under the old format.Here is an example(open division excluded):

2011

16 Am teams x $265.00=$5840.00

40 pro teams x $500.00= $20,000

Total 2011- $25,840

2012

Team Participants-32 x $650.00=$20,800.00

So,by raising the fee structure, less prize money was paid out than what could have been paid under the old format. Meaning ,if $20,800 was collected in fees ,sponsor money made up the difference to get to the $30,000 payout. Would the sponsor money have not been the same if the old format was in place? I think it would have. Just some food for thought.

One final comment. The fact the entries were down for 2012 cannot be explained away simply by saying it was the rules change. I'm sure that gas prices, job security and many other factors influnced the entries.

I will have to disagree with that statement. 2009 saw one of the worst economic downturns in American history,rivaling the financial collapse of the great depression. Yet the 2009 Orleans Pro/Am saw 57 boats compete. In 2010 again with the economy still struggling the tournament was able to draw 62 different teams combined Pro/AM/Open. That sounds pretty consistent to me. As I stated before the 2011 numbers were again in line with prior years. So, the last 3 years participation remained a model of consistency, to state that rules changes and entry fee structure were not the driving factor on participation is short sighted in my opinion. Are you trying to say the economy is worse now than it was in 2009,2010 or 2011? Statistic's say it is not. How about this, call some of the former teams that competed in the prior years and ask them why they did not compete in 2012. I would think that would make it crystal clear. I know the tournament organizers have a thankless job at times, plus they have incentive to see the changes they have made work. So defending those changes when they have appeared to not work can be a tough pill to swallow. No set of rules and entry fee structure is going make everyone happy. But taking into account the feelings of the particpants themselves is what is going to make the tournaments viable well into the future. Because, no matter if it is an economic upturn or downturn as you can plainly see by past results, if you always keep the teams participants in the forefront you will have a tournament series that will always draw. I think tournament organizers may have forgot that ,just like any business,the teams that participate are their customer's. So, how have you treated your customer's lately?

2012 Orleans county facts,

I did a little research on the Orleans Pro/Am from 2011 & 2012 Team Tournament(don't say Pro/Am cause that bird has flown the coop). Here are some facts I noticed. As you can see by the payouts listed more teams made more money than ever before. Way higher entry fees and less competitors will do that for you. One of the points of the series was to grow the tournaments. That has not happened by a long shot. Here are some other facts about the Orleans Team Tournament compared to the 2011 results.The numbers are pulled from the Team Tournament website. For the Open division I counted the number of different teams entered,so if you entered both days your team was counted as 1.

2011 Orleans

Am Teams-16

Pro Teams-40

Open- 8

Total- 64 teams

2012 Orleans

Am teams-0

Pro- 32

Open- 11

Total-43 teams

A drop in participation of 33%.

Using the above calculations you can plainly see the level of participants has dropped significantly. Is this what was envisioned when the new format was put together. The same formula can be used for the Niagara and Oswego tournaments with similar results (Niagara 21% drop) Oswego(25% drop). All you keep hearing is "X" amount of teams received a check. It's even hard to tell who won what. Ask anybody that followed or participated in the old Pro/Ams if they remember who won in years past. I am sure a majority would be able to name teams both Pro and Am from years gone by. Try that now,you can look at the score sheets and still not know. There used to be such a sense of pride and accomplishment when competing and doing well in the old series. That has completely vanished and now as you can see by whats being posted,its all about the money. Now it's everybody wins and look at all the checks we paid out. Maybe sometimes keeping things the same could be a better option. All I know is in any business or work situation, a 33% drop in sales,production,marketshare, ect is not sustainable. The question I have is, are the Salmon Team Tournaments sustainable if the levels listed above are now the norm? I guess time and the organizers of the tournaments will have the final say. The sponsors of the Tournaments have a vested interest, they want exposure and to drive sales of the products and services they offer. Less teams equal less exposure which in turn equals less sales. Why would they continue their support when advertising and promotional dollars could be spent much more effectively elsewhere.?That's some simple math everyone can understand. I believe the tournamnets are at a "fork" in the road,which way are they gonna turn. Stayed tuned!

Nice idea, kind of getting back to it roots. I like it.

Just baffled by the whole thing,I mean an am tourney scrapped and am competitor forced to fish in the pro division at what? About three times what it cost to fish before? If a weekend warrior is put in the position that they need a sponsor to fish a tourney,then it is no longer a fun deal.After paying for my dock,gas and any boat repairs that may come up there ain't a whole lot left.I think they are shooting themselves in the foot, pricing this out of reach for the little guys.

Well said blind squirrel

[ Post made via Android ]

As I posted before in regards to the Open Division, my opinion:

1. Raise entry to fee to $150 day

2. Love the idea of a little longer day. Be in line by say 12:30 or 1 pm. That should not be a conflict with other weigh in.

Thanks

How about tweaking the Open division. Let’s say $150 per day per boat. If you were able to get 20 boats (with the proposed changes, I think you will, Niagara has been averaging 10 last 2 years) that would be $3000 in prize money per day. Pay top 4 -1st (50%) $1500 2nd (25%)-$750 3rd (15%)-$450 4th (10%)-$300 based on 20 boats. The $300 in fees that the open boats would pay would actually be cheaper for most teams than entering the old AM division when you take into account the old entry fee($265 plus what you would normally pay an observer $100 for 2 days) The $150 fee per day is a nominal increase over the current $115. The new proposed changes and fees would now cost a team that has to pay an observer roughly $800 to $1000($650 or $850 plus $75 day observer) for the event depending which way the tournament directors go on the entry fees. With gasoline expected to be $5 + a gallon this summer and a lot of people’s financial situations not what they used to be, this could truly be an idea that would appeal to everyone that likes fishing these events. Just imagine 30 boats in the open division fishing for over $2200 in 1st place money a day. If an Open participant was lucky enough to win both days the cash prizes would far exceed the cash payouts of what was won by the 1st place AM teams over the last couple years. This could be a reasonable solution for all. Want to fish big money then plunk down your $800 to $1000 and go for it . If not, fish the open have a chance at some nice money and have a good time. Just a thought for what its worth. The one variable is if the open division is 100% pay back, that ,I am not sure about. I guess someone could clarify.