Shade

Tom,

Is it the Black/Green dot? That is the only one listed on you combo's that looks like the Capt. Valium?

Howie

Tom,

You do not show Capt. Valium combo or just Capt. Valium Spin Doctors.

Howie

Rick,

Just let us know what you want us to do.

Howie

Capt. Vince,

First of all thank you for your response.

I believe when Tom put this comm. rule out here it was because there where some teams, I do not know how many, said they would once again enter the Oswego pro/am. Is changing the rule or rules the direction these events need to move forward and grow, probably not. Do the committes need to look over the structure and bring it to the new millinium, absolutly.My problem with the open comm rule is what I witnessed first hand and this is not the time or place for me to get specific. To me it is a form of cheating and I know that remark will po some fishermen.

I have only fished the Niagara Pro/Am 3 times since my return to Ontario 5 years ago. I fished with another team in the pro dinvision in the east end of the lake last year and I was an Observer 2 other times. My point is I have not seen growth in the participants in these 5 years. Here are some numbers just for the Pro division this year. These are just from the Niagara even to the Orleans event. The Niagara drew 49 pro teams. The following week in Orleans which is only 23 miles east dropped to 41 teams. Out of the 41 teams 14 teams did not fish Niagara, so in retrospect the entrants dropped from 49 to 27 coming out of Niagara to Orleans, thats a reduction of 60%. The Amature division went from 25 teams in Niagara to 15 in Orleans. The committee should be asking why? Maybe the other teams could not get time off from work, maybe it was a money issue or a few other reasons. The salution may be spreading the dates out a bit more who knows unless you do some research.

I volunteered to serve on the committte and I immediatly got an email from Bill congradulating me. Then , after sending a number of emails to the committee members to find out when and where they got together, I got another email from Bill telling me that Bob Cinelli would be contacting me. NEVER HAPPENED. So apparently the committees do not need any additional help they have everything in hand. The getting this national coverage is not the answer in building these events. It may bring on a few teams but teams from Micnigan and accross the border is what we want? Nothing personal to these guys and welcome, but if the committee would think out side the box they may increase participants right here in the four counties. But by allowing the contraversy that comes from every event and the Dont Like It Don't Fish It attitude these events will eventually lose more sponsorships and participants every year.

Howie

Nick,

I like your idea on voting and along with that I would like to see the results posted along side each teams name just to keep the count mistake free.

Saying that,until the committee lets our voices be heard all this discussion is for not. This comm topic has been going on for months now and, with the exception of Paul C., no one from the committee has come forward. I do not know when this rule was changed from no comm to open comm but the participants are looking for a possible change.

I just want to know from some of you pro/am participants from the beginning:

1) How was the Pro/Am started?

2) Who or whom are the owners of these events?

3) How or who decided who took charge?

Howie

4 C's.....has everything your looking for.

www.attheoak.com

Shade

ifishy,

If you deside to make a trip to Olcott send me an email or PM and I will be nhappy to take you out.

Howie

ifishy,

Ya need to tell what prot you are near.

Howie

NO NO Rod,

I did not point you or fishnutz or Wizard as comm type guys. I asked you guys because of your knowledge and leadership in the AM division.

Howie

We started out at 0630 due to one of our crew was a bit late and we added a co-worker of my sons. This was Joe's first time ever on the big O and he never saw or fished with riggers, wire or leadcore. We decided to start in 80 fow in hopes of breaking Joe's cherry on a Brown or two. The first rigger fired in 120 fow 45 down on a geterdone SS. Joe was in the cutty getting a water so my brother landed a nice 10lb. brown. As Joe came to the deck the 10 color leadcore went off and he had good fight until FISH OFF. We where in aww watching him reel so we had to do a quick class on pole handling. Two more fires and Joe handled them well even though they where skippies. Then it went dead and once we hit 250 fow we decided to go north to 400. At about 425 our inside wire started to screem and we let Joe take it and he landed a nice 11lb Steelhead which he wanted to keep. Once again nothing all the way to 525 fow so we decided to do an slow turn and point the boat toward the microwaves.

We kicked our down speed up from 2.8 to 3.1. I also put a wht on wht SD with a ATM Big Fin fly on the center rigger and ran it down to 75'. Five minutes later it fires and Joe had a 20 minute fight with an aerobatic 21# King. We continued on a south troll and our fly hook ups continued firing. Nothing bigger than the 21#, some 10 -15 lb. kings. We put all riggers on wht SD's and Green flies and had a blast. All in all we went 16 for 20 keeping just 1 King, I Steely and 1Brown with everything else released alive. We fished from 0700 - 1300. Our best hits came in 400 - 475 fow down between 65 - 75' at 3.1 mph. Best lures where ATM green crinkle, glow hammer, green dolphin and big fin flies with wht/wht and blue dot SD's

all took about the same numbers.

Shade

Vince,

On the AM's side my team is in on NO - COM and I hope Wizard. Lucky Enough and Fishnutz follow.

Shade

I have one...make a reasonable offer.

Shade

I guess the no-com rule has a chance to be implimented.

Shade

Chad,

I got one from Mariam at 8:30 this morning.

Shade

It does not matter wether the tornament took place or not, I was just pointing out the rule. I would be really shocked if you needed to be associated with a communicating network to catch fish during a tournement.

Really impressed with the last couple of your reports...nice kings...

Howie

I have one question.....I keep hearing the closed communication rule can not be enforced.

Then why is there closed communication in the Monday events in Niagara and Oswego and how is it enforced? You must be a participant in the Pro/Am to fish the Monday event. Same participants different rule.....WHY????

Rule as it is written......Rule #7 paragraph 2

OPEN COMMUNICATIONS WILL BE IN EFFECT THROUGHOUT THE TOURNAMENT "EXCEPT OF THE MONDAY EVENTS IN NIAGARA AND OSWEGO"

Am I reading this wrong? Definition of EXCEPT -" exclusion of "

Shade

I am not going to put down any other SNT unit. If it works for you great. The 800 that came with the boat works great but i like the X4 better. Knock on wood we have had no isssues with either one. I am having more issues with my Raymarine A60.

Howie

Funny Tim...

I have an X4 and have had no problem with it and we have sent to 200' which I do not do often. My only bad experience is with the first Cannon SNT..that never worked. This boat came with an 800 and I both hooked up but I just use the X4.

Howie

Make sure your hooks are sharp.

Shade

Squid,

Because it is a rule does not make it right. I do not condone communicating outside of tournements but to help someone win or get on the board because they put the wrong program together is not right no matter how you slice it. Evgery Charter that I have talked to or read their website contends they have 25 - 30 years of experience. In that amount of time you should know where the fish sre on any given day even with weather changes. I am not saying that every time a charter captain goes out he fills his box but they put fish in the box. These guys help each other out and I would to, this is their living.

I would rather catch fish on my own DURING A TOURNAMENT, then to have someone catch fish for me. Thats just me. I would always help a friend but not during a tournament if he was a participent. To ME it is not right.

Shade

Tom,

I have had to get some cheeze and crackers for my wining in response to some of these threads but this one surprises the s..t out of me.

Since coming to Lake Ontario we have fished the Niagara Pro/Am 4 times and had the honor to fish with Bob Buck, thanks to Rod, to fish the Pro Division in the Orleans and Oswego Pro/Ams. My son Howie, friend Dale and myself have been together on the lake since 2005. We have learned alot from the members on this site and the 6 charters we went on.

We have upgraded our electronics, purchased boats to help to fish in some tough weather conditions, purchsed tackle from a variety of manufactures, read fish reports and put together programs based on the advise from LOU members.

Its only been after the past Niagara Pro/Am have we now put programs that are putting fish consistantly in our box and I am talking 15 - 30 fish and we do not fish past noon. We now enjoy personal pride when we hit the water.

Thats how I feel even in tournaments. We want to know that we either failed as a team or achieved as a team regarless where we finish.

We as a team have only fished this lake since 2005, but we where determined to take what we learned and purchased to have catch quality fish and have fun trying different things. Most important we have FFFFFFUUUUUNNN.

Howie

WOW...I guess I was being nieve when I thought some of the Charter Captains fished on their experience to win. I am appauled to see the amount of teams who are against communications but do it because its a rule that allows it.

Dictionary defines this behavior as Hipocritical. If you believe its wrong ya do not do it. You do not show the ways it can be used. I keep hearing it can not be managed. Sad really sad. If I was BC2 and got caught cheeting, I could not show my face. If the rule says no communication and the cosequences bar you from ever competing again....is it worth the enbarrassment?

Many of the Charter Captains have helped many members on this site and I applud each of you who have given us the tools and direction that has helped put fish in our boxes. I thank you for that. I can understand you guys communicating each other to keep your clients happy, but to help other compettitors box fish during a tournement or recieving information to help you because you out a network together is appauling.

I guess it is true...IT IS NOT WAT YOU KNOW..........IT'S WHO YOU KNOW

Howie

WOW....Tom you are the man and I admire you for standing up to what you believe in

In MY OPINION this was handled and announced unprofessionally. Regarless of the reasons for the change announcing it the day after the Niagara Pro/Am deadline was not done by accident and the committe knows it was wrong.

A-TOM-MIC makes the best flies and combos on this lake both north and south shores. I would bet that every fisherman has an ATM fly is his/her arsenal Your new flies for 2010 has increased my box numbers. I just recieved another order from Pete (Great Lakes Tackle) last Thursday and they put 8 fish in my box Saturday.

I kinow by saying this next statement I am going to get grief but every Pro/Am there seems to be s thread that draws a lt of attention and rebuddles. The last three (The Observer, Communications and now Sponsors) the same comment from the same guy says "I heard from a source that there is more then is being said on LOU". I guess I do not understand why this source does not come forward and help with the understanding of why some changes are being made. This would probably cool these situations down.

Howie

I like rolmops idea of color coding copper. I got my marking style from an thread by Billy V who uses paint sticks to mark his copper every 50 feet. I used white for 50', then yellow for 50', then back to white and so on. My mark is about 2" long and really stands out. Chromsleyer is correct, ATM does sell copper with backing, copper marker every 50' and a leader.

Shade

Tie rubber band around cable then take cheater line hook rubber band in your swival and connect rubber band and cheater line on to your line from pole.

Shade