Fishtails

Disregard, I found the rules !!    

Looking forward to this event!!   Always one of my favorite weeks of the year. 

Just a heads up for those of you who are, or may be considering fishing the AM division of The Kevin Davis Memorial Oswego Pro Am that there will most likely be some very positive and much needed rule changes for this year.  This is very unofficial, as the powers to be have final word but a group of us regulars have been talking with the committee about unifying the Oswego rules with the Sodus rules for this year and it sounds like it should happen. 

The main changes would be AM teams would weigh in a 7 fish box, consisting of 6 silver fish ( salmon, steelhead or brown trout) and one bonus lake trout that would be worth 10 points.  The advantage to this format is it opens up the tournament to two person teams !  In the past, the 9 fish limit required a 3 man team.   This is huge !!  I fished Sodus with just myself and my son for years, taking both a second and first place finish as a father/son team and It's one of my fondest life memories. 

I'm sure they'll make it official soon, so with the outlook favorable for reseeding water in July and the incredible fishing this season consider signing up and honoring Kevin Davis by making this a great turnout !!!  It's sure to be an amazing time !!!   

Nice Abe !!!   See you in Sodus.

On 5/20/2019 at 12:49 PM, moemoe said:

Anyone know why the numbers crashed? 29 team field? thought it was always a 60 team event?

Where you there ? I think a lot of times we can answer our own questions  lol

It was a 50 team limit, but I have no idea why the turnout was low ?  A lot of guys are 

intimidated to fish big tournaments but probably should't be.  A few guys dominate the leader board, and I know that plays a big role. Not really clear on where things are heading, but it would appear something needs to change.

On a positive note, I was among a great group of regular AM teams participating in a discussion this afternoon about The Oswego Pro Am and it was very refreshing!  Good things potentially coming this year, so keep your eye on that one if you're an amateur.  

Shoot me a text with any questions you might have.  My cell service sucks at the house.

215-356-8534

Yup, I still have it wildman97

TTT, thought it was sold, turns out they didn't have the cash so still available.

Taking off boat on Monday.

Yes...still available.  

Things I forgot to mention, but was just asked.

No, it does not have power trim

It's a long shaft (20")

More Pics...

I have a 2004 15 hp Merc 4 stroke electric start with controls in perfect running super low miles condition. It doesn't have 100 hours on it.  New carb last year (not rebuilt....new carb) because motor sat so many years without hardly running it just wouldn't idle right but new carb cleaned that right up and it runs perfect!  Not tiller control, set up to be kicker. I also put new plugs in last fall, changed the motor oil and filter and gear oil. It's ready to go.

I bought it from a dealer that serviced it since new. It came off a bass tracker.  Dealer told me the owner bass fished, and never used a kicker and as far as he knew it hadn't been run except periodic servicing. Since I owned it, 3 or 4 years now, I only used it for trolling maybe 5 times. I just prefer my main outboard motor over a kicker because I can dial in my speed better with the main. Comes complete with brand new 4 blade prop, wiring harness and controls ready to install.

I will also include my ez steer to attach to the main. The bracket on the main broke though when another boater hit it last year at the dock.  I might have some spare parts though to fix it, or just order new bracket.  

Since its complete low hours package with new carb, 2 props, complete controls and wiring plus ez steer, I'm asking $1500.  Great motor, Someone's gonna be very happy

I can take vid of it running as it's still on the boat.  I can deliver the week of the LOC, as I will be in NY starting the 10th.  Motor is outside Quakertown Pa right now.

No Culling according to the Pro Am rules means you cannot release any fish that has been caught / boated, unless it is under the tournaments legal size limit. Rules also state no shaking fish off, releasing out of net, cutting line or any act to aid in the loosing or release of  the fish.

Its a good pro rule, but a terrible AM rule when no observer is on board.

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On 7/24/2018 at 7:37 PM, rolmops said:

After having read the LSR Shootout rules , it occurred to me that,according to the rules, I cannot go to a LOC derby weigh in station before weighing in my maybe 30 pound salmon at the Shootout scales. This can be the difference between biggest fish in the LOC Derby and second place. This is potentially a thousands of dollars difference. Can the rules be changed so we can first run and weigh our big fish at a LOC weigh in station?

 

These are very standard tournament rules :

Weigh-in: - Upon returning to port the cooler containing the day's catch must be immediately transported to the weigh-in site, Oswego Marina. Weigh-in starts at 12:00 P.M.. A team representative must be in line for weigh-in no later than 3:00 P.M. with catch.

I personally wouldn't want it any other way.  From boat to weigh in....no exceptions.  I would take it a step further myself and also add to the rules that two team members should remain with the cooler at all times  (am standard Pro Am rule)

The rule is there to deter cheating.  We all know foul play occurs with a small percentage of participants. I think all that can really be done when the honor system is in play is to police ourselves and not have rules in place that encourage or aid cheating. If a team is allowed to drive their catch to another weigh station for an LOC entry first (per your suggestion), then who's to say they cant also stop and pick up a drink and some lunch, some gas for the truck, then get to the LOC scales the same time as their buddy whom just so happened to also catch a nice fish whom lets just say didn't want to keep his fish and voila,  "someone" ends up with a nice addition to the cooler.  Then off to weigh in they go....

Just one scenario in 100's of similar scenarios that could take place. So....by policing ourselves we can keep an eye on each other. No stopping at a friends house, or stopping by a friends boat, or going for gas, lunch, LOC scales, the bar, etc.  From the boat to weigh in.....keep it simple and make it more uncomfortable for that very small minority to do their dirty work. 

I have nothing to do with this tournament, nor am I even fishing it so it's just my opinion but I do fish a lot of tournaments and totally support any rule that keeps the foul play to a minimum. I just fished the Oswego Pro Am on the Amateur side and the rules stated no culling, yet there were no observers to enforce it.  A few boats came in with huge 9 fish boxes both days, so we are to believe they caught zero small fish out of the 18 in two days?  A truly difficult task !!  Is it possible, sure.  But that margin of doubt shouldn't exist because its an unenforceable leftover rule from the days am's had an observer. Overall I loved fishing the Oswego Pro Am and thought it was a GREAT event.

It's just that my team was basically done and pulled lines with 8 of our 9 (mostly smaller) at 9:45 am Saturday so we went to scout waters for the next day. We finished off our 9th around noon and went in early feeling we probably got beat by teams who culled a few and upgraded their box throughout the day. Culling should ALWAYS be allowed if there are no observers on the boat or it just becomes a tournament that favors the cheaters, and also puts the honest guys in a position to either have to break a rule that shouldn't exist or get beat by those who do. Hopefully it gets eliminated from the 2019 Am rules because I really did love the Oswego Pro Am this year  !!! 

2 hours ago, TOP SECRET said:

I might be missing it, but do we have to sign up for BFF separately or is that included in the ProAm registration/fee?

 

Signed up for the Pro Division Saturday, looking forward to another great event!

Its always been separate Nick.  Normally we sign up at Captain Jacks.

Thank You, mailing our entry today !!

How are entries being accepted Matt?  By mail or in person only ? No online registration, correct?

 10 guys will give you all different answers. How many riggers depends on your boat and how you fish. I had 4, went down to 3, and now normally run 2.   I'd like more for Brown Trout, but 2 is all I need for salmon.

With the clear water, fishing has changed.  Getting some of your baits further away from the boat can be more productive for salmon once the sun comes up so most guys are down to 3 riggers max. If you fish browns much, they love riggers!

Some guys still run 4-5 riggers with lots of success, but its really just a different style of bait presentation.  Depends on how you like to fish.  Its hard to deny that a rigger fish is much easier to reel in than a 600 copper fish.

On 6/14/2018 at 7:31 PM, rdebadts said:

I like 3-6 fish boxes, with culling allowed. 6 is probably my favorite- a nice mix of skill and luck required to win those tourneys. I like the open concept with no observers too.

 

I was a bit frustrated in niagara when I caught 12 salmon by noon and would have been 7th in the pros, but barely got 6th in the open. All because I lacked a 18-20 lb fish.

 

 

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I feel the same Abe.  5 or 6 fish seems to be the magic number. 

I experienced a similar fate last time I fished Niagara. The 3 fish format The Niagara Pro Am has for the Am's is more of a derby format than a tournament.  I'm not knocking it, I think it's good for plenty of guys and a great starter event.  That format just isn't for me.  I do however, like that each day is a separate event so you have the option to fish just one day.  That's a really smart idea.

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I haven't seen any results yet.  I'm glad you had fun Rod and it was great to see you

 

Was great seeing you as well Mike !

I didn't see it either Mike. Couldn't even tell you who won.  We were last to get in line at weigh in, only made it with maybe 5 minutes to spare.  Once we knew we were not top 10 and wouldn't cash, weighing in was going to burn up valuable time so we bailed to gas up the boat and run back across the lake.  Even so, the gas dock had closed and we almost had to stay the night.  Luckily, two other boats were also stuck without gas and the marina got someone to open and pump gas for us.  

18 hours ago, Bozeman Bob said:

Somewhat surprised that the field is only 55 boats.  When you consider the population difference between the " Golden Horseshoe  " Toronto to St Catherine's has to be pushing 8 million and Wilson to Sodus at around 500,00. That could be another reason for the large entries of smaller boats.  

Its an invitational type of tournament Bob. The spring event is capped at 60 teams.  The summer event is capped at 40. There is normally a waiting list.  I actually don't know the exact number of teams this past Sat but 55 rings a bell.  I could be off a few either way.  Regardless it was either a full field or around 90%.   

We actually attributed their different "viewpoint" of competing in small boats at least in part to a couple of very successful captains on the north shore who regularly win and do so in aluminum boats. Canadians just seem to have a different mindset in that regard.  It would be interesting to hear from a few at some point on the subject.

I gotta say, some really good feedback guys !

On a side note, the past two weekends I was able to participate in the Oak Orchard Open in Point Breeze NY and The Tightlines King Of Kings in Toronto Canada.  The OOO is an absolute blast!!  We had so much fun.  It's an incredibly enjoyable and challenging format.  Very well run and one worth checking out!

Tightlines is great, but a big $$ event on the north shore so only a half dozen or so of the approx. 55 team field is from the USA. I've fished it a few times now and one thing that really jumps out at me every time I fish it is the large number of SMALL boats that enter the Canadian events.  As we all staged out in front of the harbor awaiting the shotgun start, I counted around 15 - 18 aluminum boats 18 to 20 ft and a few more smaller fiberglass rigs.  Those guys are not intimidated one bit going up against the big boats in a one day six fish high dollar shootout. I wanted to snap pics but its no communication and my phone was off. A totally different mentality on the north shore and those little boats often times not only finish in the $$, but even win !  Not saying I think 3 guys PLUS OBSERVER should pile in a 20 ft Aluminum boat and fish a 20k tourney, but they not only do it in CA, they do it well! 

A thought for some of you guys that may want to check out what the bigger tournament fishing is really like. Three upcoming tournaments will be requiring observers. The Pro side teams in Oswego and Sodus Pro Ams and The A-Tom-Mik Invitational.  You can get on a team as their observer and get a front row seat to truly see what it like, plus its the best way there is to learn from some of the best fishermen on the lake.

I'll be fishing the Am division this year in the Pro Ams. Am's don't need observers, but two of my team members on this years team have been past observers of mine, so you just never know where being an observer will take you? 

1 hour ago, Frogger said:

Well I guess with a question you had originally asked, you had to expect you were going to get a barrage of opinions. That’s good right? If the intent was to only end up suggesting that these tournaments are for those chosen few and not for everyone it kinda brings you back to full circle of what the outcomes your seeing? I was kinda of waiting for that one bull in the china shop charter captain to say quit your whining speech. Which may still come. Hopefully not, but it will lead you to an opinion that maybe some pros would rather have it the way it is? There’s a tremendous intimidation factor for many from an amateur standpoint. Whether you agree or not, many fish with kids and or non fishing buddies who generally are not comfortable going out a channel with elite fishing machines pushing them against the channel wall going out at start time. Allowing amateurs to spread out for what they are willing to drive to for weigh in and use their go to launch would, I think, make it more appealing and provide more of a comfort factor. Last thought that someone else previously touched on was the entry fee and to be able to pay up until the night before and at least get your money back the morning before start time in case of weather. There’s too much variability in the big O as everyone knows. To say that I’m going to take vacation, pay the entry fee in advance, get everything ready and find out that’s there’s 3 footers the morning of? Only happens once I guess. Safety concerns in one boat is not the same in another. Trying to balance that will get you some increased participation in these tourney formats if in fact that’s the goal. If not then as you suggested the derby’s will remain their venue. My hats off to the people putting the time in for these events. It has to take an incredible amount of time and effort I’m sure. This has been a good read for many I’m sure. Thanks for posting.


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That was a great response Frogger, exactly the kind of healthy feedback I think coordinators reading this post can digest for future events.  Thanks for your input !! 

I missed it this year, but that situation Sunday was too bad.  See you in Sodus Abe!

On 6/7/2018 at 8:12 PM, John E Powell said:

Fishing rough water on a large seaworthy boat most pro teams use with the incentive of a big purse is one thing.

 

Fishing those same rough waters on a small trailerable boat most amateur teams use for a purse that is usually 1/10 or less what the pro prize is another thing altogether.

 

In my mind if you’re going to run an amateur division it needs to be run in a different manner than a pro division. Not just team members, observers, number of rods, and fish, but with the understanding that most Am teams aren’t really after a big prize, it’s to have a good time and not throw away an entry fee.

 

I’d be a lot more inclined to fish a tournament if I could get my entry fee back the morning of the tournament if I felt it was to rough to fish comfortably in a smaller boat.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

 

Tournament fishing isn't for everyone, and I'd go as far as to say it's not for most.  I hear you on your complaints and I also took in your issues with The Niagara Pro Am and their payout structure.  We all have opinions, both good and bad on practically every subject.   I asked what's the reason some of us don't fish tournaments so that we can have a healthy conversation mostly because I am genuinely interested.  

I don't necessarily agree with all of your opinions, but that's the thing about open discussions and opinions    I'm not looking to change anyone's mind.  The great thing is that there is something for everyone that has an interest.  The LOC derby is perfect for kingpossible and tons of others. Choose your days with weather, low entry fee, fish any port, etc. 

The small one day events like King of the Oak in Point Breeze, The A-Tom-Mik Challenge, The Fairhaven Challenge, The Sandy Creek Shootout, The Little Salmon River Challenge, etc are perfect for those wanting to take a step up from the derby thing. Low entry (lets be honest, if $50-$100 is too steep, than derby fishing is for you), one day event, choose one in a port close to you, a chance to compete and add a new dimension to your fishing adventures and test your skills against other anglers. If mother nature wins, it's only $50-$100  and you can choose not to fish. Often times entry doesn't need to be paid until the day before the event.

For the many who want to participate in a true tournament format and step up from the smaller shootouts there are the Pro Ams and Invitationals which from my expedience can be the most fun by far !! 

 I personally think most committees do an extraordinary job and I have fished many events in the last ten years.  Sometimes the wind blows. We fish a big lake.  I agree they don't get it right every time in every event when it comes down to the wind issue, but I know they do their best with the info they have and there's a lot more to it than most of us know.

. 

On 6/5/2018 at 8:40 PM, jth21usa said:

Just my 2 cents:

1. Entry fee, $200 is a lot of money if I have to run from Rochester.

2. I always thought you should be able to leave from multiple ports, example if the tournament is in Rochester you should be able to leave from Braddocks and I Bay and end up at the weight in.

3. No catch and release options, sorry I don’t eat fish and all my friends and family’s freezers are stocked and I have a lot of guilt if I had to throw them in the garden.

4. No late entry, I want to be able to PayPal the tournament director at 9pm Friday when I know there aren’t 4 footers that are going to kill me all day.

5. Why do all tournaments hate our only native species, the lake trout?

 

make it cheap and easy and they will come.

There are lots of options for you that fall under your requirements.  You are describing more of a derby or shootout more than a tournament.  They can be lots of fun.