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LongLine

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Posts posted by LongLine

  1. Scott - as long as you have them installed correctly - trust your electronics.

     

    Just some thoughts:

     

    The main driver of river current is the elevation change between upstream & down stream plus how much water is draining into the river.  Also the water in the center is generally moving much faster than along the shore. (however it may be more turbulent along the shore)

     

    The main driver is of Big-O mixing current has to be the wind, which goes all over the place, even though we live in the "Prevailing Westerlies".  Check the wind maps. I've seen NW winds at Olcott, and South wind at the Genny at the same time.  I've also seen strong SW winds produce 6 ft white caps off the Oak yet the Genny area be calm due to the Braddocks area acting like a topographical wind barrier.  (i.e. The Genny is in a cove) The degree of mixing has to be different.  (Why do fishermen travel west during mid/late spring? That's where the fish are.  Why are the fish there?  IMO,  water temps are more stable).  Yes, I've seen/experienced multiple "sub-surface" currents.  (I learned long ago not to use pancake weights on Big-O)

     

    Big-O has a natural "Double gyre"  i.e typical currents (negating winds).  The 1st starts at Niagara and flows along the S shore. It turns and flows counterclockwise around the Salmon River area.   The 2nd starts at Niagara and flows along the Canadian shore.  However this 2nd one gets about 2/3 of the way to the St Lawrence and then the doubles back in a clockwise direction.  (Meets the 1st current head-on)  Interestingly there is generally a south bound current near the Scotch Bonnet Ridge that generally hits the S shore near Sandy/Hamlin area.  Winds, especially anything out of the east, can mess this up.

     

    I believe the lakes' bottom topography can sometimes affect the mixing of temperatures.  I.e. With a strong south wind cold deeper water moves towards the south.  Where the bottom is generally flat (like at Rochester) there's no "barrier" to its movement. (other than the warmer shallows) At the Oak, where you don't have to go nearly as far offshore to find the same depth of water as you do off Rochester, the steeper bottom gradient has to deflect some of that cold water upwards.  (look at how fast the deep water temp gauge changes off Rochester - one day it's 58F & next day can be 44F)

     

    I don't know, (and I'm not going to count) but I'd be willing to bet that more little alewife died (per unit of shoreline) along the flat bottom area (say from Braddocks to Ginnea) than anywhere else.  

     

    Lastly, currents in winter are much faster in winter than in summer.  Why?  Lake is not getting nearly as much direct sunlight (hence heat) and remember "Gales of November".  i.e Big waves & strong winds.

     

    Luck to all,

     

    Tom B.

    (LongLine)

  2. Interesting paper.  However doesn't explain why the temperature change.  Here's my take on it (from many yrs of fishing Big-O around Rochester.) 

     

    Big-O in the Central area is very dynamic.  We all know in late winter to early spring the entire lake is basically 40F - top to bottom. After a while a Thermal Bar sets up & moves off-shore.  (Temp on inside may be 50F and outside may be 39F and only lasts a week or 2.)  We also know that much later in the summer a Thermocline sets up where surface temp may be 65F but a fairly consistent band of 54F water can be found at a certain depth. (We all love to find where 54F hits the bottom.) 

     

    However, there's a transition period, typically in mid/late May to mid/late June.  This is when the charters all head off-shore for their fishing.  i.e. 250 FOW plus. Fishing for us recreational fishermen becomes real tough.  Thank Heavens for graduations, little league, Father's day, weddings...(well maybe not weddings)

     

    Anyways,  Big-O is very dynamic, and I don't mean just in terms of the changing winds and cloud cover. I'm talking currents.  Some days on a S-N troll, your GPS says 2.5 mph but down speed is 3.7.  15 minutes later they match at 2.5. Then it changes again. Other days I've seen the same thing on an E-W troll. There's generally an easterly current along the south shore but that's not always true.   (Niagara is obviously different than Rochester)

     

    I generally troll S-N and a number of years ago I noticed something interesting during Transition on my down temperature probe. Namely, during this "Transition" period, there are drastic temperature changes at depth.  Not smooth at all.  (And yes, I have had the unit checked.) 

     

    For example, going N at 2.5 GPS with surface at 60F and probe down 30 feet, down temp reads 60F.  Then a couple minutes later 45F, couple more minutes 58, then 40.  Kind of like the unit goes whacky. Then all of a sudden the temp reading goes steady as I continue north bound and it stays steady. The 1st time this happened, I changed battery, cable, antenna & rewired connections.  Couple days later when I got back out, same thing happened so I pulled the entire unit & sent back to factory.  They returned it saying the unit was fine. 

     

    So here's my theory:  During Transition, there's a band of water depths where the temperature is very unstable.  Some years it may be from 70 FOW to 110 FOW, others, like this year it may be 50 to 180FOW.  The lake does not mix or stratify evenly due to currents and heating. Ever notice those perfectly calm surface areas adjacent to a streak where there are some small waves?  I guarantee there's a temperature difference between the two areas. Ever notice, some guys love to fish after a strong south wind - they say the warm inshore water gets blown out to the deep water & helps settle thing down.  Also, ever notice that some guys hate a strong NE wind?  (That really messes with water temps.) 

     

    Anyways, this is what I've observed graphically over the years. (I picked temps & FOW just to illustrate irregularity)  the first is a profile of the Thermocline.  Second is the Transition Period.

     

    Untitled2.thumb.jpg.87b7c42b8a7e89bc83fde4a289192993.jpg

     

     

    Untitled.thumb.jpg.04723cfe85aae61e363569068d30dc88.jpg

     

    Back to the Alewife:  These irregular temperature changes are below the surface and they appear to be in dynamic motion as the lake mixes and tries to setup due to the various currents. This is the Transition Period.  The cold spot at 50FOW today may be at 30 FOW tomorrow or in a couple hours.  Alewife are not great swimmers and could very easily get caught in rushes of cold water. Alewife spawning just happens to coincide with the Transition Period.  Remember, this is all happening well below the surface.  My advice is to keep going North when you encounter these temperature conditions. (Just like the charter guys who found out that in June, you have to go deep.)    

     

     

     

    Luck to all,

    Tom B.

    (LongLine)
     

    • Like 1
  3. Saw maybe 6-8 cormorants swimming & diving in 165 FOW on Thurs off Long Pond.  Also maybe 2 dz small alewives swimming in circles on surface, obviously wounded.  Didn't mark any pods though.  I always thought those birds were better hunters.

  4. Canadian law does not require periodic monitoring of effluent as US law does.  That's a big reason that the Hamilton harbor spill happened.  No one checked for the gate that was left open over many years!  Expense is a big reason they're not going to dredge that creek where it happen, and cleanup the 20 billion liter spill that has been draining into the lake.  Wonder why Hamilton harbor has had those algae blooms? 

  5. The Niagara is naturally choked by that shallow section above the falls.  (i.e 1500 wide x 17 ft deep)  Falls site/people say 168K cuft/sec is what they want for high tourist hours in summer but Buffalo water keeper says average has recently been around 210K Cu ft/sec.   St Lawrence can flow considerably higher.  What really hurts are the additional smaller rivers that really add up.  i.e Rochester currently at 12K, Oswego at 17K & Lord knows what the Ottawa is throwing at the big river.  They need to keep the St Lawrence well over 300K

  6. Check out the MODIS imagery of the lake.  Erie is green & so is the south shore of Ontario yet offshore & northern shore of Ontario is dark.  GL Currents map shows pretty strong easterly currents along the southern shore and strong westerly currents along the North shore so you know where the Erie water is going. 

  7. Higher runoff, seems to me, logically leads to more "stuff" being washed in the lake.  Question is "what's the stuff?"  -  Good "stuff" or bad stuff?"  Articles that I've seen indicate a rise in pharmaceuticals & plastizers.   Obviously NYS phosphorus ban in soap & fertilizers has helped reduce phosphorous loading from NY side but what about the effects from Lake Erie & the Canadian side?  

     

    Erie has algae blooms, which I believe have been blamed on phosphorus loading and the Canadians don't have Federal laws like the US does concerning secondary wastewater treatment nor the same fertilizer laws.  I remember a few news articles about raw municipal waste being dumped directly into the lake because treatment plants overflowed in Canada.  It's also my understanding that only a few Canadian cities have waste water treatment anything like the US has. (I'm thinking Kingston & Windsor)  Hamilton being the most guilty polluter on Lake Ontario. 

     

    But back on point -something to think about:  lake Ontario has very wicked gyres, (circulations, hence mixing - with offshore generally a little slower than nearshore) especially in the winter time.  (which has been reversed at least once this winter according to the GL Currents monitoring website)  Therefore I would think that high water levels would have a diluting effect of pollutants from the other two main sources, on phosphorous & water quality studies. i.e same or greater tonnage of "stuff" but much more water. (I don't know how many "gillions" of gallons 3 ft or 4 ft of surface water represents)  

     

    Come on Spring!

  8. At 3 am Cape Vincent at 245.4.  At 8:45 am 246.6.

     

    977067348_waterlevelcape1-12-20.thumb.jpg.fe1f1f5cf602f982048fa9bbfe6eeec0.jpg

     

    At 5:12am Ogdensburg at 243.4.  At 10:18am at 244.2

     

    1705984022_waterogdensburg1-12-20.thumb.jpg.bcea433ad9c36dc5af925eee3c8781fc.jpg

     

    winds greatly affect current flow.  Gyre back to normal direction this time of year but current very strong.  Near 20cm along S shore.

    1218426512_watergere1-12-20.thumb.jpg.064c40e5e0c1c366f9b8e8d8f7b25743.jpg

     

     

    I'm sure waves on top of that level & gyre doing damage.  Probably a lot of spray ice

     

     

     

  9. 1 hour ago, horsehunter said:

    Does anyone know what the maximum level reached in 2019 and when for the east end of the lake?

     

    June 3, 2019, max was 249.1 Ft at Cape Vincent.

     

    800699521_waterlevelcapevin6-3-19.thumb.jpg.1f49b583b78fed7247d6a2a10e97d146.jpg

    July remained in high 248's,  Aug stayed in low to mid 248's

     

     

  10. Marks on fishfinders can be interesting to interpret.  If I was seeing a lot of marks like the one on the left and the center, I'd check the angle that the transducer makes to the water level as my boat sits on the water.  Thinking that it was tipped backwards too far.  I'm having trouble visualizing in 3-D how a fish can be first seen in the cone shallow then go deeper.  (unless he was dive-bombing towards the center of the cone)  If tipped too far backwards then the first two fish could have been swimming horizontally but perpendicular away from your boat. (hence further out of the cone)  If a perfectly vertical cone passes over a stationary fish, it will show up deeper then appear shallower then deeper again.  Like an inverted arch. (checkmark).  If he was coming up from the bottom then the mark would start deep then go shallower. i.e mark sloped the other way than on your screen.  Someone help me on this?

     

    Also remember that length of the mark does not necessarily mean length of fish, rather it means he spent a longer time in the cone. i.e. the one on the right was probably a follower. 

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