pvelyk

Nice Brown and a great day out on the water.

Sounds like a great day and a great peak at what to expect in the spring.

Interesting, gonna give it a good look.  First appearance is the Water Wolf is more setup to be on the fishing rod line which scares the heck out of me.  Probably better footage but risk is a lot higher that way.

I have been watching this Kickstarter campaign for a downrigger camera for a real good price compared to what I paid for my GoPro.  Having been burnt by a Indiegogo project I am willing to wait for it to go to retail and grab it then if reviews are decent. For a $130 and it being built around fishing and it is nice and streamlined to prevent blowback, it looks pretty darn interesting for what you are talking about.  Plus I rather lose $130 to Lake O than $300 or $400.

http://gofishcam.com/productspecs/

As per NY state regs the season reopened January 1st on the great lakes and tribs.  Check special regs for size depending where you fish..

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/31423.html

Awesome gift, keeps you fishing year round, even if only in pictures.

Pap,

My wife uses a air brush for cake decorating and I just bought an airbrush for myself to eventually do some spoons.  My plan is to use the food coloring for airbrushes my wife for her cakes to practice with before using paint.  That way cleanup of the airbrush, practice material and the work area is easier and its cheaper than using the auto paint I plan on using for the lures.  Once I get some comfort putting my design down using that switch over.

Pap,

The show is in Niagara Falls, the US side, at the convention center.  Yeah it's $8 without school.  The school is put on by LOTSA and details for that are at the LOTSA website www.Lotsa.org .   The website for the show is http://niagarafishingexpo.com  and besides a convention style floor they do have a lot of 2 hourish seminars.  Last year they "tracks" of these seminars broken down by subject. Also Sunday I beleive is the LOTSA Flea market so there is a pretty good amount of stuff going on. I believe there is a Days Inn very close to the show that has decent rates.

I asked specifically if there was a protocol in selecting fish at the hatchery to strip or milt and was told they take any size or age salmon to reach there number they need.  NOAA states Chinook salmon produce 2500 to 7000 eggs depending on size.  That means on the low end of eggs per fsih you need 800 hens to get 2,000,000 eggs and on the high end you need 267 hens so probably between the two number is the numbers actually need to meet the goals.  Realistically I would hope that the hatchery is getting many more hens than that and they could be more selective if they wanted to.  

Having said all that I do respect the work done by the hatchery and DEC guys.  We have had a World Class fishery for many years and they undeniably were at the center of that.  I would hope that past success has not impacted there ability to change procedures to match the changes the fish and the lake have gone through.  There should be diversity in eggs and harvest from all size fish should occur, but I would prefer a majority of fish, if available, should come from larger and more mature fish.

PM Sent

I hope this is a real early April fools prank.

http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2015/11/cabelas_bass_pro_shops.html

Cabela's stores might be getting a new owner.

According to a Reuters story citing "people familiar with the matter" who "asked not to be identified because the deliberations are confidential," Bass Pro Shops is exploring an offer on Cabela's, a fellow outdoor retailer.

Reuters reported that Cabela's has also begun to explore its sale options in general by reaching out to private-equity firms.

Cabela's, which is headquartered in Sidney, Nebraska, operates dozens of storesspread somewhat evenly throughout the United States and Canada. It has five locations in Oregon and Washington, including stores in Springfield and Tualatin.

Bass Pro Shops, founded in 1971 in Springfield, Missouri, also has stores in the U.S. and (a handful in) Canada, though most of its locations are in the eastern half of the continent. Its only Northwest locations are in Tacoma, Washington, and Vancouver, B.C.

Neither retailer immediately responded to requests for comment.

Why is so important to you to be right here?  Is it to justify that all the snaggers and poachers pissed you off and you started this thread.  Guess what, we are all on board here with that, It's wrong and shows a terrible attitude toward the fish, nature and society in general that some people think doing that is ok.  There are a tons of threads every year created about this problem and even more threads hijacked about people complaining and being pissed off about the poachers.  Whether the salmon successfully go through the steps to spawn and produce offspring or not doesn't even enter in to the whole equation here, it's wrong plain and simple and it pisses everyone here off.  Trying to justify this thread by sticking to the claim that there is natural reproduction for salmon in the Genny when it is the accepted belief of old timers here with tons of knowledge and the DEC's own words then you come across as being argumentative and unable to accept that you misunderstood something or just got it wrong.  According to science as far as everyone in the world scientifically and antidotely knows natural reproduction in the Genny is non existent for Salmon.  And I will repeat what I said before even if there somehow some small amount were to somehow occur in some small micro habitat in this river that number is statistically the same as zero for any contribution to this lake or its fishery.  I wish you were right and reproduction would occur at the Genny and a lot of other south shore tribs but wishing doesn't make it so.

The usgs states the water in the Genesee has suitable oxygen levels for salmon reproduction. There is no data supporting your claim. Salmon have been naturally reproducing in the Genesee for hundreds of years.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

First Pacific Salmon were not here for hundreds of years, so your reference to them is moot.  Second Atlantic salmon all but became extinct in Lake Ontario do to industrialization and the effect it had on the water quality both physical in increased silt due to modern farming practices and Chemicals. Third oxygen in the water is not the same at the oxygen found around the eggs and any lucky enough fry that hatched in the minuscule gravel beds that would support them covered in silt.  Honestly it sounds as if you have never laid eyes on the Genesee River in Northern NY.  Southern NY and Pennsylvania has areas that would fit the bills but several Water Falls and Dams including a large one called the Mt. Morris Dam prevent any salmon or trout from Lake Ontario getting anywhere near these areas.  I grew up on the Genny upstream by RIT, trust me when I say the silt and runoff in this river is constant and heavy.  Salmon eggs are just not suited to survive the water quality provided by this watershed and anyone who has fished or seen it up close would have little reason to believe otherwise. 

It's pretty simple it is direct stockers and pen fish are returning to the river.  The Genesee River's bottom makeup is not a hospitable place for salmon eggs to get fertilized, eye up and survive as fry to make it to the lake.  The eggs need cool water, small sized gravel for beds and habitat for the newly hatch fry hide in once hatched and it needs to highly oxygenated.  The amount of silt that this very mature river has in it covers they eggs and chokes the small amount of gravel beds and starves both any eggs and lucky enough fry to hatch of oxygen.  The Genny from the lower falls to the lake is pretty much devoid of any stretches of the small size gravel that is needed for either the spawning bed or a place for the new hatched salmon to hide.  Any any beds that do exist are simply choked and covered by the large amounts of silt carried down from upstream where the large amount of farms and other high erosion land it flows through.    This river simply is not a suitable river for Salmon reproduction, If any natural spawning at all actually occurs and the fry are somehow able to actually grow to the point to go in the lake the number are truly so small that they are considered zero.  Seeing salmon upriver is NOT a sign of natural reproduction.  Few rivers and streams on the south shore of Lake Ontario are even remotely capable of the needs of the eggs and resulting fry to survive and make it to the lake.

If you end up having to go new Anchor Express had the best price I could find two weeks ago.  I got two Otter Boats shipped to my house for $203.  Half keels were 43.99 if you want or need them.  Good luck.

After all the complaining and crying from all angles the first scheduled meeting to talk with the DEC and 43 people show up....  I don't need to say anymore..

You never know.  I was telling one of the guys I work with this spring about volunteering for the Sandy Creek Pen project and even know he doesn't fish he decided to be a volunteer for the Genesee River Pen Project.  I know for a fact he followed through and did many feedings and the assembly project.  I asked him why if he doesn't fish he did it and he gave me to main answers; his family has a cottage on the Lake and he wanted to give back to it and he thought it would be a interesting thin to see this side of the salmon cycle.  

I think there a lot of people here that have a whole lot more investment in this fishery than him and after the last two seasons may see that volunteering just a very few hours for the could make a big difference what happens the next few years.  I really hope two seasons of poor returns finally motivates those that are willing to let others do all the work for them to actually get involved.   

For what it's worth I am convinced there is no one issue that we are battling here for the last few years poor fishing.  My guess like anything this complex there are multiple with some issue being greater factor for the decline than others.  But fixing even the small ones help, even if by fixing or addressing them it is to eliminates them from from the list of variables.

For once I am trying to limit my pessimism and up my optimism.

When you consider how much money and time we tie up in this "Hobby" it should not take all that much convincing to get people to volunteer for something so tied to their success and fun out there on the water.  A few hours of volunteering distributed over a decent sized group would likely pay great dividends.

Not sure what they mean dumbed down for our salmon.  Seems like in a closed system over 40 years would lead to some inbreeding and giving a shot of fresh eggs would mitigate that some.  

Thanks for posting notes from the meeting.  

Website is being redone by Chad. They are around and have an active membership.

Inline spinners work well, but like everything else they have there time and place. I make my own with silver plated components and tape on the backside of the blade and a single hook so they are legal.

Yea, but they're "Pros." For sure I'd do as they say. 

Yeah, I know where your going there, LOL!  Even if I didn't, I learned a  long time ago gills are sacred to a fishes survival.  If you want the fish to live they never get touched.  Common sense always trumps a persons titles.

Thanks for the video, I looked a bit yesterday for it but only found the one from Finders Keeper with holding the tail with the fish backwards or holding by the gills forwards and neither seemed ideal to me.   This looks like the best solution and will give it a try next year.  Good stuff, I appreciate everyone's help.

Boaters whether rag fliers or power driven are just a small subset of society. Society has conscientious people and it has self absorbed people that think the rules are not for them. You see it on the road, in stores lines and just about everywhere else so why shouldn't we see it on the water. My mindset on the water is the same as morning rush hour, hope that people follow the rules but be prepared to react as though they won't.

Thanks for the info guys all good stuff, what I am really struggling with is the best way to hold the fish in the water. Between the gunwhale height, waves and the occasional fish trying to get loose early I often find myself with empty hands and a fish that could be diving down or floating on the surface. My next thought is to get a boga stick and try that but I am hoping there is a better way.

Appreciate that video of removing air from the swim blatter, I have read about doing it but I always feared doing more damage with the needle than help.

With all the talk of low king numbers I would like to find out peoples different methods of reviving fish they catch on the boat prior to releasing them.  I know there has to be a better way than I was doing as about half the fish took off after I released and the other half seemed to either not do so well or took a bit to get it together.  I want to give these fish the best shot possible so these fish survive and contribute some fun again to someone else.