CaptSpike

Grab the rod like this: Left hand grabs right side of rod and right hand grabs the left hand side on either side of the ferrule , like an X. then try to twist and pull apart gently. Has worked for me on some tough rods.

Spike

When I had problems after putting on  new tires I was told to move the axel back in 6" increments until the problem went away (boat was in perfect relationship to the back of the trailer so the axel was moved). Only took me one move of 6" to fix the sway issue. With the original tires I must have been right on the edge of sway/no sway. I also added some accesory's that added weight from the original package purchase. This also plays into toungue weight. Lastly and often most overlooked is your tounge is suppose to be horizontal when trailering not tipped up or down. Different ball drop assy's should get you close if that is an issue. My neighbor drives off with his boat tilted a good 20 degrees. I imagine his boat would sway at higher speeds. Since he is just going to the local pond at 40mph he probably doesn't see it as an issue.

Spike

Oh man you guys are depressing me. I head out in a couple weeks. I need upbeat reports/theories! lol.

Seriously, even a bad yr there will beat anything my state has to offer.

Arriving the same day as the big king bite,

Spike

It sure sounds like this is going to be an early start to the run. A bunch of recent pictures have the fish coloring up already! I sure hope I don't hit it when they are staged right out front. Too crowded for my liking.....Oh well it is what it is.

Spike

Well I just checked out the rigger mounting boards and went out to look the boat over. Where I have the rigger mount now it is about one foot forward of the stern. Draw a line between the two tracks and I can't tilt my motor up............... For me to go further forward I would hit my cleats and the fuel fill on the starboard side. My forward track that holds my ratcheting rod holders is as far back as I can go due to the same fuel fill and cleat. So They are the next possible location for the board. That is 21" forward from where my riggers are mounted now................Which then looks to interfer with my vertical rod holder along the back of the boat. All in all it probably isn't much further forward than normal boat layouts but the Sport angler gives you so much access at the stern I'd hate to negate that with a rigger board further forward than needed. So I think I'm just going to leave it as is.

Here is a picture that shows the rear rigger tracks, the forward tracks along with the stock vertical rod holders in front of the motor.

http://www.nhanglers.com/Gallery/Fishing/index.php/Open-water/Freshwater/IMG_0283

Spike

http://www.nhanglers.com/Gallery/Fishing/index.php/Open-water/Freshwater/IMG_0155

Here is a good picture of my set up. As you see I have extruded aluminum gunnels. The angle you see the rigger set at is the furthest out I can run without seeing significant twisting of the gunnel. The torque of the rigger in this position is more inline with the gunnel making it sturdier. When you rotate the rigger out the torque is now applied over the thinner area on the gunnel.

I was hoping a board mounted between the tracks on the port and starboard side would eliminate the twisting because the board would be anchored latteraly across the boat. Negating the twisting. I'd hate to invest the $$ and end up with the same results.....

Spike

If you backed it into the garage and tore off the rigger you know what the weak point is its not the boat gunwale

True but the forces were in an entirely different direction. When backing up the force was along the gunnel where it is strongest not laterally. So it isn't a good judgement. When I make the video you will see it clearly. I'll shoot it Saturday if it isn't raining out.

Thanks to all for your input I value everyones opinion and it's great to have a bunch of different views on the issue.

Spike

You'd save yourself a lot of anxiety if you use a rigg'r board.  Mount your rigg'rs on the board.  Have you board screw down into the tracks if you like.  Remove the whole thing when/if you want a "clean" gunwale.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

Thats what I was thinking but figured Id see if anyone else had solved the problem that way before spending the $$. I haven't had great luck with recent purchases, lol.

Spike

I see where your mount came undone. My swivel base had similar design where the screws ripped out of the partial thread. Luckily it was from backing into my shelter frame and I didn't loose the rigger. Your gunnels are way wider than mine. My track just about spans my gunnel. I'll get a video up this weekend. For now I'll just use them as I have been with no issues yet.

Spike

I understand completely. The gunnel is what flexes on mine as well. Backing it will add some rigidity, but will not eliminate the issue. Why do you not want to mount them directly to the gunnel? Hard mounting them seems less obtrusive than adding a support track across the width of the boat, unless you need the extra track.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Lake Ontario United mobile app

The swivel mounts I am using are designed for tracks. I like the option of complete removal to a clean gunnel. 

The extrusion of my gunnel has like three different layers you drill thru to get thru the gunnel. I used fender washers bottom side. They will not pull thru, that I know by backing my rigger into my storage garage. The swivel mount got destroyed the track and gunnel remained in tact. I now remove the riggers before backing into the garage...

Spike

You'd think the manufacturer would have offered that up......

Which brings me to the question why don't the manufacturers offer twilly tips as original equipment on their rods? Answer: Because they don't have to warranty them after you add the twilly......................

Spike

OK I guess I didn't explain it right. My tracks are mounted thru the extrusion that lund uses for a gunnel. It isn't the track flexing it is the whole gunnel twisting/flexing when I put the rigger out 90 degrees or even less (more than one increment of the swivel mount). Backing it up won't make a difference as the part I'm backing to is what is twisting.

I'll try and shoot a video of it. I think if I ran a track between the two sides (across the back of the boat) it may reduce/eliminate the flexing?????

Spike

There is only two reasons a boat sits for sale for a long time. They either want too much $$ for it and aren't willing to bargain or it's junk.

JMHO.

Spike

Here is a lesson for everyone. First I’ll start by saying I hate buying rods I can’t look over first. That being said rods that are used in lake Ontario are not used locally so finding a local shop with some in house is impossible. So I wanted to upgrade my remaining dipsy rods to Shimano Taloras, which I did thru an online retailer. I got the rods put them together to check out the action and then put them back in the plastic sleeve and brought them down stairs. So this weekend I decide to put the twilly tips on the rods and assemble them for my upcoming trip. I remove the tip section from each bag and install the twilly tips. Once the twilly is on I assembled the butt section to the top and layed the rod down awaiting reel installation. I finish all three rods and start to mount the reels on them one at a time. First rod I noticed a couple chips in the blank on the butt section opposite the guide side of the blank. I was not happy. Second rod was fine third rod had three spots on the butt section and one small spot on the top section where the rod finish was damaged. So I call the place that sold me the rods and I got a call back today. They said because I installed the twilly tip that they cannot exchange the rod because Shimano wouldn’t warranty them with the Twilly tip on them. They said they would give me 10% off the rods and I could still try to see if Shimano would warranty them direct. I called Shimano and they wouldn’t warranty them, saying any rod altered from factory voids warranty. This I did not know. I’m betting most other users that have added twilly tips did not know this either. I emailed back the retailer saying 10% is a joke on a $90 rod that I basically got in used condition. I asked for 30% and got it. I still feel hosed but thought if I asked for too much I’d have been given nothing. I have spent a lot of money at this retailer in the past and if they keep a history it is likely why I was given 30% off.

So if you choose to buy rods online look them over real good before you alter them. I myself will only purchase rods I can touch and feel from here on out.

Lesson learned,

Spike

I have a Lund Sport angler. I run Cannon riggers on Berts swivel mount bases in tracks mounted on the gunnel about a foot up from the stern. One thing I noticed when running my rigger is I only dare turn them out one increment. Any further and I can see the gunnel flexing (twisting). When I run heavier weights (13-15lbs) this is even more noticable. Is anyone running the heavy weights with the riggers mounted to the gunnels like this rotated out 90 degrees? I'm now contemplating a board between the two gunnels just to help anchor the two sides to each other and running the riggers out the sides that way.

I'm hoping I don't need to do that in order to run the riggers out further. So figured I'd ask here if anyone else has done this or seen what I am refering to. I can shoot a video of what I'm talking about if it would help.

Maybe I'm just to over cautious???

Spike

Took a good look at my holders today and noticed the thin wall refered to (on the ratchet hinge point). In my opinion the worse thing you can do is try to expand, swag or what ever you choose to call it to the pins. If you do that when you go to remove them because you need to you will destroy the hole size in the aluminum. I would suggest upsetting the aluminum on the thicker side of the pin hole (inner edge) with a center punch (spring loaded would be best). This way if you need to remove the pin later it will only resize the hole to what it should be not make it bigger (make sure to center punch an area that isn't on the slot of the spring pin).

I reviewed the design of the holder today also. They definitely could have made some improvements. Starting with the thin wall where the pin in question resides. Since it is a special extruded tube they could have easily extended that area towards the ratchet handle without affecting the action. I also noticed on the four I have that some were sloppyier that others. The play between the two bases that rotate was not the same on all of them. So I broke one down. Two flathead screws hold the base on (these are thread locked to keep them in place). Then you rotate The base until the two holes line up with the two screws holding the tube on. Remove these two screws (which are also thread locked). Once the tube is removed you see a shoulder screw that sets the play in (distance between) the bases. If the thickness of the top plate is not "fit" to the size of the shoulder on the screw you will get more play. I was able to crank the shoulder screws a tad on the two loose ones I had. One tightened it up better the other did nothing. The two sections rotate on the shoulder screw. I did not see a bushing and I couldn't tell if there was a plate between them (to prevent metal on metal) it didn't look like it. I guess with all the axis movement there will be sacrifices in fit of the assembly. I'm pretty sure with the amount of use I will put these thru I should see yrs of use out of them with no trouble. I can certainly see if I used them a lot where trouble could show up. If you use them alot you should do as suggested above and tear them down (very easy) and make sure there is no problems: galvonic corrosion from two different metals, metal on metal wear (no buffer).

I am also wondering if one of the plastic pieces break can replacem,ents be found at local shops or should I preorder a couple to have on hand just in case?

Thanks,

Spike

I fished on this boat with Rod a few yrs ago. Nice comfortable boat to fish out of. Rod keeps everything up to snuff as far as maintenence goes.

Someone will be happy with this boat.

Good luck on the sale Rod. It's tough to part with a boat you have a lot of memories on.

Spike

Moeller Engine Oil Extractor, I use it on my yard gear as well.

Spike

Great I just switched over to these from the Bert's. Guess I'll keep an eye out for this.

Not being to familiar with the holders (just put on the boat and have used them once) I'm thinking to keep the pin from coming out maybe a center punch on the edge of the hole will help keep it in place.

I'll check it out next time I pull the boat out.

Any chance you could post a picture up of exactly where the issue is?

Thanks,

Spike

Sk8man I was thinking the same with the sheath, which is why I asked. Was hoping to hear if anyone else had used core already with twilly tips. It looks like if I'm going to use them for core rods I'll need to find the tips.........which so far remain somewhere hidden amongst everything I have aquired over the years. I was never a big fan of the eagle claw tip tops anyway so if I can't find them I could always put new ones on.

Then again selling them for $25 a piece wouldn't be a bad choice either and may save me some "rework" of the rods.

I am going thru my gear today and I have the two original Daiwa heartland dipsey rods I started with. They are really just heavy action downrigger rods. Both have been "shortened". One by quite a bit, the other by just a little. I should probably strip the guides off them and trash the blanks. I don't see myself ever restoring these to working order. I didn't pay much for them so not a huge loss. Still have the four original med action rigger rods which I still use. Some years I go out there with the Daiwas, other years I use lighter ugly sticks. Depends on who I'm going with which rods I bring. Experienced people can control the fish boats side with either rod but rookies really do better with the medium action rods.

Anyway I'm getting away from the topic.

Thanks for the replies. Less than a month to go!

Spike

leadcore rods

OK this may sound stupid, keep in mind I only use these wire rods in NY so if I convert them to core rods can I leave the twilly tip on or should it be removed and the original tips put back on? I have no idea if the twilly tip would hurt the core and or leader or not? Not enough experience with twilly tips.

Thanks,

Spike

That is good news! Saved yourself some $$. You may want to carry a spare switch just in case. As Gambler mentioned the boards are around $75 and are easy to install. At least now you got some info on what could go wrong anyway. I had a few guys on my boat that could never get the rigger to stop on the way up. They also were not holding it in the down position long enough. I never thought that might be your issue.

Spike

So I bit the bullet and updated my three remaining dipsy rods to Shimano talora rods. The question I have is are the Eagle claw rods I replaced them with worth selling? A new Eagle claw rod is around $40. All but one of the eagle claws were purchased last yr (when I decided to run four wire rods). I bought them at Woody's and had problems with the real seats breaking free and spinning around. After returning two rods in as many days Woody suggested drilling the bottom of the reel seat and filling it with a 2 part epoxy which is what we did at his shop. Never had a problem after that. Lastly one or two may have had the tip shortened....Yup I fish with one of those guys, lol. I also have a 10' Ugly stick dipsy rod that is very stiff. I figure most wouldn't want to fish with it, at least that is kind of how I feel about it until I get a big king boat side and need to control him. The lighter action rods have no control. The ugly stick rod was around $50 new.

Granted I only use them a trip a yr to lake O but they do see there fair share of action on those trips.

Should I just hold onto them as back ups or sell? What would be a fair price? All are outfitted with twilly tips.

I'm leaning towards just keeping them for back ups.

Thanks for your opinion,

Spike

I had a mag 10 that did the same thing. It was the switch. Second time it did it it turned out to be the board. Odd that both would go at the same time though. When the board went on one of mine the other went about two weeks later. So maybe not so odd?

Let us know how you make out.

Spike

First off let me say we typically yank copper line in NH. I have found that copper sinks like a rock on a turn which is likely where you collected your debris. We troll .5-.8mph and let enough line out to just tic bottom with the lure while Yanking (jigging, jerking) the line. As depth changes you will need to let out more line or bring line in. This is where it gets tricky and frustrating for most. We use heavy leader material (25 lb) because you are in contact with the bottom. This method is deadly for lake trout. I have been meaning to put up a video explaining the technique but never got around to it. Maybe next trip out (if the wind cooperates) I will.Im sure out there you don't need to tic bottom and can likely be successful at depths where the bait is. You probably just need to add the jigging action to the lure.

Spike