GAMBLER
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Posts posted by GAMBLER
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10 hours ago, King Davy said:
I’d love for the state to only stock 120k kings a year and see what the impact would be on the lake fishery.
Could you afford a tournament every weekend of the summer? Plus the high effort to catch them every day of the boating season to in the end hoping enough fish return to the Hatchey to recruit the next year class. Woukd the limit still be three a day. Would you sign up for that Brian?
cause you think a high average of those four to six inch fish survive to become adult fish. Would you be willing to play the same game the AS are in?
line up and tell the DEC you only need 120k fish a year that because most of them live to run home to a river you’ll be good. Heck then we can raise coaster Brook trout, pink salmon and sockeyes with all the hatchery space we’ll have.
this isn’t an apples to apples comparison. You will never have a super sport fishery with 120k fish. The feds and the DEC are starting a new path and management initiative to find a strain that thrives in this environment. The science behind this hasn’t been in play YOY.
and today we do have fish returning and getting caught to the delight of many anglers. You don’t fish for them in rivers so you don’t know what is actually going on. And a river angler isn’t a boat guy trying to fill a cooler. It’s a whole different dynamic. The last three days we guided two guys from Rhode Island. We fished around anglers from Tennessee. Ohio, and three from Montana. Four Landlocks were caught that I know of. One about 10 pounds. A magnificent fish. Many browns were caught as well. But those folks couldn’t stop talking about that one fish. For them it was cool, it was exciting. For them it was good enough.
Don’t you worry Brian. We are good that they are in unicorn status for now. At least we know they are around. And we can fish for them. It’s the hunt that still makes it exciting.
If they held kings to 7” (like Atlantic’s)instead of 2-4”, survival would be drastically higher. With natural reproduction, you would see way more returns than Atlantic’s. It’s been proven they have survival issues due to thiamine deficiency. They stock 240,000 Atlantic’s Lake wide and a little bit more coho and coho returns are way better than Atlantic’s. They are a great species but they are a poor investment. You come on a predominately trollers website with like minded people (for the most part) and pound your chest about Atlantic’s time and time again yet contribute nothing else. I find it comical Dave.
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3 minutes ago, King Davy said:
So we have millions of king salmon and and less than 10% survive to return to rivers to spawn and you want to put that up again 150k stocked AS annually to where a few thousand survive. And you want to talk about survival struggles. I think both species have hurdles to overcome. For instance we don’t have big salmon anymore. Haven’t had notable numbers of high 30’s to 40 pound fish since the early 2000’s or essentially 20 years. Because there are several issues in the LO environment that hasn’t been overcome. Why don’t you fixate on that for once.
The powers that be running the LO fishery have decided they are all in on AS. Good bad or indifferent that’s the play. So stop whining and just fish for what ever is your passion and I’ll do the same. I catch them, I enjoy them and I guess you don’t. Oh well.
Go do some actual research. The program has not been running at its current rate for ever. It’s started and stopped for Decades. At present for the first time in forever the State in conjunction with the Feds actually has a management plan which they didn’t have in the past.
this fishery is ever changing and evolving . You should do the same.Less than 10% survive?
Nice try Dave. I really enjoy the one atlantic a year on average. They taste great too. I have been evolving with this fishery since I started in 1983 and didn't give up when the fishery had its down swings.
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7 minutes ago, King Davy said:
They stock 850k king salmon. 111k out of the pens in a place like oak orchard. Plus the wild fish produced. And we may have a couple 100 fish total that returned this year.
out in the lake you have at least three year classes of fish, well over a million a year from stocking and wild fish and how many did you catch? 100’s. Dozens, maybe 20 to 30 all season.
what do you think the survival rate is of these fish ? 10%. 5%. Five percent of 200k fish is at most 10k fish spread out all over the lake.
Here’s the bottom line. This is a heritage species. If you have any sense of history of lake Ontario this was the greatest in land Atlantic salmon fishery on the planet. Man f’d it all up. How can you not be interested in some effort to try and create even a minor resurrection of our LO history. Whom is it hurting? How are you being impacted negatively?
just because YOU don’t care about them or can’t catch them doesn’t mean I and many other trib anglers aren’t interested in catching them and or trying to bring back this historical fish that is revered in every other watershed in the world it swims. It’s just NOT all about everyone. Just like Chinook salmon isn’t revered by everyone.
we have a wonderful diverse fishey that has some thing for everyone. Not just for a select few. Get over it.
The returns were dismal on the entire West end of Lake O. Why? My guess would be lack of imprinting (Pen rearing doesn't help much with imprinting only survival rate) and they returned to the Salmon River (the run was awesome according to the reports). I am interested in restoring native species but to dump Atlantics in year after year and have minimal returns is not getting the job done. Atlantics are more prone to Thiamine deficiency than all the other Lake O trout and salmon. As long as there are alewife, Atlantics will struggle to survive. The .04 Atlantics per boat trip is a great asset to the fishery.... How long has this program been going on and it is still not much better than it was a decade ago. The Atlantic program does affect every stakeholder on Lake Ontario. Instead of dumping money and resources into a program this is still spinning its wheels after decades of trying, they could put it into species that we get returns out of. Until the Atlantic survival rate is as good as other species, you are going to get pushback from the majority of Lake O anglers. You will just have to get over it.
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Congrats Billy!
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7 minutes ago, King Davy said:
Of course there wasn’t 2,700 salmon in the Oak. There were several 100 that were caught and released several times. . What you don’t seem to grasp is that the fish that were present created a viable fishery for the anglers (the many anglers) who fished it from Sept. through the following April. I personally caught 10 landlock salmon in that period several
in the winter months where these fish in 34 degree water jumped four feet in the air and tore off a 100 yards of line.
memorable fish .
You classify a viable fishery a couple hundred fish when 200,000 plus stocked per year with multiple year classes returning at the same time? Just imagine if these fish actually survived as well as the other trout and salmon stocked in Lake Ontario.
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2 hours ago, King Davy said:
Check with the stream DEC creel guys. I fished a PHW event last weekend with them. There have been great catches of Landlocks in Sandy and oak orchard since mid October. The creel census for oak orchard alone in 2019-2020 netted 2,700 Atlantic salmon caught.
If you believe 2,700 Atlantics were caught, I got ocean front property to sell you in Arizona. 1). How many were misidentified 2). how many times was a handful over fish caught over and over and over again? Let be real Dave, those numbers are not even remotely accurate.
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4 minutes ago, rolmops said:
It is really sad to hear all the talk about crime, mostly because according to the feds, crime has gone down. The GOP brought crime to the election only after they realized the enormous influence that the abortion issue brought to the polls.
As for the bail issue. At no point in time were violent crime suspects let go without having to put up bail.
Release without paying bail is there for those innocent until proven guilty, so those who cannot afford bail don’t have to spend several months in jail until their case comes to court. This enables them to work and provide for their dependents. Until now their only alternative to waiting in jail, was pleading guilty and get out without doing time, but now with a criminal record that haunts them for the rest of their lives even if they were innocent to begin with. Nothing is simple if you are poor,because the system is rigged against you.
They also said inflation isn't bad.... Look around. Car jackings, murders, violent attacks and a ton of other crime. If criminals don't have the money to get bailed out, there is always bond. The issue with the law is people are getting out on bail and put right back on the street to commit crime. Bail reform also does not recognize crimes like second degree manslaughter as a violent offense therefor, criminals that commit 2nd degree manslaughter will be releases. Let a criminal harm one of your family members, get released back to the streets and tell me its not a flawed law.
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4 hours ago, Total Chaos said:
I’ve shot at least 30 deer with rage heads never had one fail! I’ve only lost 2 deer with them. Both were broadside. One I hit in the neck, god knows how, and he survived. I started getting pics within 3 days of me shooting him and the other, you guessed it, shoulder. Every head has opened and none ever opened prior to contact. You guys can use whatever you want but stop bashing something that works fine. I bet the majority of the times it operator error that causes the fail. Just like everything in life. And the crickets is because Gill-T had nothing to say about the quartering shots that obviously resulted in dead deer that he was sure I couldn’t show him. I can say rage heads have made me look a lot better than I am because I’ve made some borderline shots that resulted in quick, easy to find kills that with a cut on contact head would not have been easy if ever recovered. I shot thunderhead 125 and Ricky mountain razors back in the day and lost deer with both. They’re only as good as the person behind the bow.
I just don't understand why other peoples opinion bothers you so much. If you are happy with them, continue to use them. With zero fails in 30 deer, I would continue to use them too if I didnt have one fail.
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Nice buck Chromeslayer! Congrats.
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Congrats Troutman10!
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Congrats everyone. Just catching up after 5 days in the woods. Just one doe in five days.
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Gambler Rigs! They are made right in Hilton NY.
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14 hours ago, dremarquis said:
thank you SO MUCH! I had looked at about 15 places and the model i wanted was out of stock everywhere else.
andre
If that doesn't work, try Sportsman's guide. Docs Tackle in Honeoye carries a nice selection of CVA muzzleloaders too.
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10 minutes ago, whaler1 said:
BBD
Awesome Bill! Congrats!
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You know you have raised your kid right when he sends you a photo of a cloud from the bus stop and says it looks like a pike!
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It could be wired wrong and the switch for the bilge on the dash needs to be on for the float switch to work. I have seen all sorts of goofy things in boats over the years. People have no clue what they are doing.
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9 hours ago, fisherman21 said:
Took my best buck to date this morning. Not a giant, but I was shaking after the shot……and that what it’s all about. I made a perfect heart shot at 20 yards. He trotted 15 yards from the shot, stood there for 10 seconds and fell right over. The deer died in less than 45 seconds. Couldn’t ask for anything more. Time to catch a few fish before gun opens.
Congrat Manny!
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2 hours ago, Sweets said:
These lures are vintage, however, when I got this tackle a lot of it was new but not in packages so I’m pretty sure the 3 size 0 have never been used but I can’t be 100%. If you’re interested I can send them out today!
Those are really vintage! The wing shape is the original wing shape. It is slightly different now.
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10 hours ago, brucehookedup said:
I bay
This is a perfect example of why we need Cormorant control.
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On 10/16/2022 at 12:09 PM, Sk8man said:
The lampricide doesn't kill adult lampreys it is targeted at the ammocetes (larval stage) that live in the stream bottoms and lake/stream deltas. I agree that a multifaceted approach is the way to go.
I totally understand that lampricide doesn't kill adults. The treatments were not completed due to covid a couple years ago. The adult population is now high from those year classes. Its down right ugly the amount of adult Lamprey in Lake O right now. I'm worried it will cause mortality in Browns and Lakers. It seems to affect them the most from what I have seen over the years. If we go back to the original topic on stocking, Lower stocking numbers and mortality rates that are higher due to lamprey predation, its going to be an ugly road ahead. At the state of the lake meeting years ago, I believe it was Vince that said "we need to take better care of the fish we stock". That is 100% spot on. The DEC has worked with us to get the fish all in pens and helping survival. Now we need them to step up and 1) control the adult and future lamprey populations and 2) open a season on cormorants in NY! Canada has opened a season and you can take 50 birds a day. I will gladly buy steel shot, a duck stamp, get my HIP certification and spend days on the water ridding the world of a nasty bird that is destroying fish populations and habitat along the shoreline.
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2 hours ago, whaler1 said:
Game on
Get em Billy!
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2 hours ago, Sk8man said:
The lampricide treatment process is a lot more complicated than just staff and funding for a body of water as large as Lake O with its crazy weather patterns and numerous streams etc. Often there is a very small window of time that the certified people can apply the lampricide and it has to be done under very specific water and weather conditions and only by those approved personnel. If done under "marginal" conditions there can be collateral kill of non target organisms and fish as well as dissolution of the chemicals making the application ineffective. Who knows how many of these adult lamprey came up through the St. Lawrence each year as well and is this on the increase? The problems on Lake O are not unique. The Finger Lakes hooked up to the canal system are having significant problems with the lamprey concentrations too and overall all these bodies are under siege by various aquatic invasives both vegetative and others. If we step back a bit it is also apparent that there are things going on of a much wider scope in our environment. Many critical species are disappearing from our environment such as bees and birds, frogs, and other amphibians and mammals. The very character of the water has changed in recent decades and weed growth and distribution patterns that host much of the food web has been drastically impacted. Many lakes no longer have the same food bases they have had in the past. The focus is on Lake O but I think we have a much larger and more serious set of problems facing us.
We are seeing a huge increase in population because lampricide treatments were not done due to covid. There is more that can be done than lampricide treatments to help this situation. There are attractants and repellants that can be used. They could use attractants in certain less fertile tribs along with lamprey traps to catch adults. They can also use repellents to keep lamprey out of the most fertile tribs. Using just lampricide with the current adult population isn't enough. This multi million dollar a year fishery should get more effort to keep it as good as it can be. The DEC does a great job but we could ALWAYS do better. Lamprey predation on our fish populations is not going to help keep the fishery top notch. Look at what the lamprey did to some of the fingerlakes in the past.
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19 minutes ago, BSmaster said:
James Haynes
- Emeritus-Professor
- [email protected]
- I haven't talked to him since I graduated (93). He changed the whole way I looked at pollution. He knows and if he doesn't know, I doubt anybody does. Send him an e-mail. I remember Lake O was a passion of his. I am pretty sure he will respond if he has time.
- I respect everyone and their input. I believe there are many variables happening simultaneously - enough where cause and effect is a just an educated opinion and not facts.
He retired last I knew.
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39 minutes ago, King Davy said:
So Gambler, what would you propose anglers do? TFM is produced in Germany and only distributed for treatment by licensed agents of Ocean's and Water from Canada. I think I read where a team from the US did some treatments in 2021, because of the border closings. So maybe one idea is to have more agents licensed to treat. Homework for you, research what it takes to ramp up treatments in the future, and how often a stream can be treated without harming other aquatic river life.
The target is the lamprey fry and I’ve been there when they treat the salmon and it also does kill the adult spawning lampreys. Got lots of snakes everywhere in the river bed.
We need a cormorant hunting season, and layman lamprey treatment companies right?Treatments will not kill adults. The issue right now is the adult population. We averaged 2-3 lampreys a trip! I had lampreys sucked to rigger balls, my probe and the hull of my boat. I have never seen that in the 38 seasons I have been fishing Lake Ontario! We need to push the DEC to do more than just treatments. There is new technology in attractants and repellants that could be used along with traps. Attract lampreys to tributaries that are easy to deploy lamprey traps and trap as many adults as possible. Put repellant in tribs with high spawning success rate to keep them out of prime habitat (as long as they don’t cause harm to other species). The DEC had Covid money from the government that had to be used on Covid related issues with the fishery, here is an issue that was magnified by Covid. Why not spend the money to correct this issue. Sitting back and doing nothing only hurts the fishery. If you think fish populations are an issue now, hang on because it could get worse due to mortality from lamprey. If man power is an issue, I’m sure tons of guys (both trib and lake) would volunteer to assist in the program. I certainly would.
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We need more fish
in Open Lake Discussion
Posted
This is not just a trolling board, but the majority of guys here are big lake guys or both. They also come here and participate on more topics than just Atlantics. The sturgeon restoration program is a great program and is VERY successful. I would love to see a catch and release season for them in my lifetime. I fish the Genny for catfish and walleye with my kid so chances are I will catch one sometime. I have buddies that have caught them fishing catfish many times. The sandy out of state crowd has been here for years for browns. It's great for the entire fishery and the local community. They are not here for the Atlantics.... If the DEC can figure out a strain of Atlantics that survive as well as the original strain and the program is more successful, I am 100% behind bumping up the stockings to make a better fishery. I love how you think I only troll the lake. Little do you know, I have fished along side of you at the Genny a couple times with my spey rod and fly rod over the last 20 years. I also shared a pool with you at the Douglaston on the Salmon River years ago. But hey, I'm just a trolling guy.