bulletbob

well, I guess I found out at least part of the problem with the low compression [90 PSI] on this 30 HP.. I got the OEM OMC standard ring set today in the mail, and went out to check ring end gap... It is over spec.. spec is .005- .015.. I was seeing more like .017 maybe even .018 gap with the new rings... Not sure if those couple thousandths are worth 10 PSI loss or 40 PSI loss.. Not really sure if I should proceed, cross my fingers and hope the new rings and reseal help enough to make it at least a fair runner, or go for a rebore, new pistons etc, which will mean me putting a LOT more money into a 28 year old motor than I really want to, as parts and machine work are just super expensive these days... any thoughts???... bob

 I am   just starting a hone and re ring job on a 1996 30 Johnson.. Engine runs but starts hard, stumbles at low speed,  has a "lean sneeze' at idle and low speeds. Also,smokes like hell while idling.. Runs well above half throttle.. All indications of  worn rings/low compression/leaks at crank seals.. Its been this way for a while,  but got worse after  the impeller melted down last year, engine overheated, blew head gasket and died... Replaced the head gasket, and the engine did  start and run, but  actually got somewhat worse than it had been..  It shows even compression at 90 PSI each cyl, but 90 PSI is low for this engine I believe,, I think good ones are more like 125-130...  I did not see any big digs in the cyl walls when I had the engine open last year to replace the gasket, and am hoping a re ring /hone/ clean up/reseal will bring the compression up enough  to  make the engine run better.. I REALLY don't want to get into boring/new bearings/new pistons etc, because  thats when I have to start thinking about just ditching the motor...  .. So anyway here's my question..

Should I  be at least mildly optimistic that there is 90 PSI -even on both cyls? ,that this could indicate this engine will respond well to new rings/seal/hone ?..

It would seem  to me if there were major damage to the bores or block that this engine would not run at all and have actually much lower compression than it does.. i am going to do the re ring, bought the parts, and am committed to it, but thats about as far as I want to go.. I don't want to put $1000 in new pistons, block rebore etc...  I have read horror stories where guys have put rings in and compression was not improved at all.. Don't see how that could be if it was done right, but I have seen many guys say just re ringing a 2 cycle outboard rarely helps..  Kind of scary.. other guys say that they  put rings and seals in and had a like new engine... Right now I am just hoping for the best, and could use some encouraging words from someone thats been there on a 2 stroke rebuild... bob

 Both still available..

 I always used plain old  white spray grease, and it worked fine, and never ruined the rollers the way  "the book" says they will.. I like white grease, I  personally don't feel it does anything bad to the hard rubber rollers, but if you want to go by the book, use any grease that does not contain petroleum.. that would include silicone grease, or white grease that states it has no petroleum base oils..

 Think about something you just wrote.. Its correct and very much in line with what I said ..In ANY fishery, the first sign of too much pressure is not a lack of  numbers of fish typically.. Its a lack of BIG fish...  Same thing time and time again throughout my lifetime I have seen it... Harder each year to get keepers, because as soon as they reach legal size they are taken... Thats all due to pressure... The Crappie minimum size is now 10 inches.. problem is, in a LOT of lakes there are no or very very few 10 inch Crappies left.. I know 2 lakes not too far from me that are loaded with Crappies... You can catch 100 on a good day.. however, you won't find even one over 7 inches. Biggest one I have caught personally in the last 5 or more years has been  9 inches..  I know some here will poo poo  the idea, but in my opinion, panfish are over exploited in NY state these days.. Many of us really don't have a taste for greasy dark  Alwewife stuffed trout from lakes, and prefer eating white mild panfish..   Theres a reason guys will tell you exactly where they caught that 15 lb Brown, what speed, how deep, lure type and pattern, water temp and time of day.. Yet ask where they caught that mess of Perch, Crappies, or these days even big Bluegills, and you'll get blank stares and icy silence.. Times have changed.... bob

1 hour ago, Lucky13 said:

I find it ironic that 45 years ago, when I was mainly a trout fisherman, DEC encouraged catch and release of trout by telling people to harvest and eat panfish, and now we're being told to let the big panfish go to spawn, keep only ones over 8" in the better sunfish lakes, and no more than 15 per day.  I've complained to DEC that the 3 with only 2 over 12" limit on brook trout is unrealistic on the Tug Hill, a person might only catch one or 2 over 12 inches in a season, but 5 hardly allows my wife and kids to get a taste if we want a meal.  There is currently a lot of controversy on the big pond about lack of staging fish in the fall, but the fleet is out filling boxes daily all through the spring.  Is the solution there to cut the limit to 2 silvers and one bonus LT per day, so there are still some 3 year olds and 2 year olds hanging around in the fall? And please don't say "stock more,"  put too many cows in a pasture, you end up with a pasture full of dead cows. Or should everything be catch and release except " trash fish," suckers, carp and drum, which are all edible and valued in some cultures?  And when you say " ban sale" please remember that under the drug laws, giving someone drugs is considered the same as sale.  A lot of the disadvantaged in the inner city rely on the local catch in the fish markets to get fresh fish, and for the portion of the African American community that migrated north, " Bream", or panfish are the fish of choice.  It's certainly a thorny problem, and as to beating a dead horse, I think you'll see a lot more discussion of it in the long run, not less.   
 

 Good points.. However, remember, there are a  lot more people today than 25 years ago, and the  fresh water fisheries today are under intense pressure.. Boats, electronics, information access,  leisure time, all are light years ahead of just a few years ago... the fish are getting hit harder than ever with not many places they can retreat to.. I get it, people want to eat fish, however   wild yellow perch, crappies etc from inland lakes are NOT the answer.. They just can't be replaced as fast as they are caught and eaten.. If we can fish out the oceans, [and for many species we HAVE], we can fish out lakes and rivers,, very easily... aquaculture  is really the only way to feed the masses if they want fish, not commercial exploitation of very finite lakes.. They farm raise catfish, stripers, tilapia, shrimp, salmon, trout, geez, you would think plain old yellow perch would be a breeze... I don't have the answer to the dilemma, I'm not that bright, but commercial fishing for fresh water fish, is NOT the answer, unless its for something like the grass and bighead carb that are devastating the mid west and heading further east  each day... All I know is this- there are a LOT of guys that would go to a  small lake with only 50  big perch left, and go  and  catch all 50 If they had the ability to do so, and sleep like a baby  that night and never give it another thought.. We are dealing with human nature here,  and I believe what is written in God's Word-   "There is none that is righteous, no not one".

 I wish we could let honor, civility, and    respect for others dictate what we kill and eat, but thats not possible these days.  There are too many that care only for themselves, and will take all they can get no matter what its is, and that includes natural resources, including fish and game..

 I have seen it time and time and time again in my 69 years.   bob

Agree on the 50 fish limit.. I think a limit of 15 or 20 tops is more than generous enough... Commercial fishing for them????... infuriating to say the least....

I like to fish as much as anyone, but really, tying a balloon to a perch, to track the school??.. I get it, heard of it being done, but does one REALLY need the fish that badly??.. I don't approach  my fishing like that.. If I can catch a half dozen perch, maybe the same amount of nice size sunnies, and few bonus bass [that I throw back], thats more than enough meat, decent enough action, and I consider it a worthwhile day... Maybe its just me, but I    don't need the fish that bad,,,, There's always another day.... bob

 I don't mind tinkering at all.. Its what I do... i do understand  what you guys are saying however. Right now, can't see swinging 3K + even though thats a good price for a 20 HP 4 stroke  with controls.. Another really odd thing I have found is this- Its often cheaper to buy an entire boat/motor trailer than just the engine...  i have seen a LOT of guys buy an entire rig and then sell or just give away the boat... I have seen some some pretty good deals at times, and usually when the motor is on the boat you can hear it run... I am keeping my eyes open at this time as I decide which way to go.. Another option is this-

 Buy cheap entire gasket set on ebay/amazon for REAL cheap, like 30 bucks... Buy rings same place. around $ 70-80 for both pistons.... Now at around $125 or less, I can  Hone/ re ring/ reseal the engine real cheap and hope for the best.. I have had pretty decent luck with cheap ebay parts on all my cars/mowers/chain saws/ outboards etc.. Just last year i used a Chinese head gasket on this 30 HP, and it was fine, looked 100% OEM to me.. been using ebay wheel bearings/brakes/engine parts/starters/alternators for many years, and  they have lasted as long as anything I even bought at NAPA/Autozone/Advance at about 1/3 to 1/2 the price...  So I dunno, cheaping out  big time and hoping for the best is another possibility....  anyway, its been an interesting discussion, and I'll post more about what I do if anyone cares to read it..... bob

 I could go to a 20 no problem.. Boat is only a 14 root aluminum, although it is a "heavy" aluminum boat.. Remote steer with side console.. Only motors I can find are typically 30 HP long shaft with remote steer.. a 20 or 25  is better suited, but they are TOUGH to find in remote steer/electric start and when you do find a clean used one, sellers know they are pretty rare, and want a fortune.. A clean 50 or 70 2 stroke is cheaper than a clean 20 or 25 remote steer long shaft... Anyway, not sure what I am going to do..  I might just buy a  9.9 or 15 HP tiller, forget about the side console for now, until I can find a reasonably priced 25 remote somewhere,. Prices are just  really crazy new . used  parts, labor , everything..  I was at a boat dealer the other day looking for parts, $200 an hour for labor, but hey ONLY $179.95 an hour for friends and family!.. What a deal!.. Right there on a big sign.. This was in  Sayre Pa...

  When I rebuilt my Grand Cherokee engine in Oct. -

$150 to check the head, make sure it had no cracks

 $150 to plane  the head..

  $150 to press 6 new pistons onto the old connecting rods..

 So $450 for what is NOT  much labor if you know what these procedures entail.. This is about 1 1/2 hours labor at most.

 I had to resurface the valves, install new valve seals myself.. That would have been another $300-400 or so.. A  factory rebuilt head  was only $400.... Its just the way things are now, labor is even worse than parts.. Soon no one will be able to afford fixing anything, and will be forced to buy new... bob

Prices are nuts.. $250 to bore the block, pistons are about $175 each with rings, and thats without a  gasket set which is a couple hundred bucks, unless I get chinese ones... Probably $800 in parts, if I do  everything myself, not including plugs, solvents, gasket sealer, penetrating oil,  expendables such as sandpaper,  etc... No wonder guys are always looking for good used outboards... Might also go with a known good power head... Clean one on ebay with 120 psi each hole.. I can't tell you how many times I have been through this.. I lament each and every good running OB motor I ever sold for way too little money years ago.. Past 3 or 4 motors i have bought have crapped out in a few years of very easy use, and good care... Like I said,  most guys know when its time to get out of a motor, and as they say - "there's an ass for every seat"... bob

 I have done the decarb,  cyl soak, "free the rings" deal.. Thats not the problem...  At 90 PSI  on both cyls, its  just worn, I have known it for several years.. Plus I overheated it last year when the water pump failed and melted into a big rubber blob,, I blew the head gasket, replaced it and the pump, and it did run afterwards, but the  "tiredness" was even  more pronounced.. Its just time.. I really don't think it needs more than a hone, rings and new crank seals, as the bores looked pretty decent last year when I had the head off.. I have had several of these 2 cyl OMC  2 strokes, and from my experience, they want 120 PSI or more  to run  really well.. Once they get below 100 psi, they start hard, stall when cold, and sneeze like hell at low speed... Others may have had better experience, but I have owned 2 30's, as well as a 28SPL, and they stated getting balky as the compression dropped below a certain point...  I would buy a clean used one, but guys are asking $1200-$1500 for 25 YO 25 or 30 HP OMC 2 strokes, and  i have not had much luck with OB engines at that age.. I buy one for a grand or close, and  a year or two  later its    pretty much at lifes end... Most guys sell OB engines when they start getting tired and unreliable.. Not much need to  dump a good running dependable OB  motor for most  boaters.. Not going to trust another old motor, this time  maybe I will  simply try rebuilding it myself ..bob

 I am not a 2 stroke/outboard guy all that much, but am a  69 YO retired ASE Master technician that made a life with internal combustion engines.. Just this past october I rebuilt the engine in my Grand Cherokee in frame, in the driveway, on my back, new pistons and all, so I have some "residual" ability left from my work years... I  have a tired 1996 Johnson 30 HP 2 stroke.. 90 PSI each cyl... It should have more like 120 psi. It starts[hard], and  still runs pretty strong  at mid and full throttle, but idles poorly and sneezes like crazy at low/idle speed.. Sure signs of low compression.. No rod/piston noise that I can hear.. I am thinking that in this case a set of rings and a cyl honing as well as new crank seals should get the compression up to where this engine runs better.. I am just not in a position to spend $1500 or so on a 20 YO engine that might have 500 hours on  it, and is almost s tired as mine.. I keep buying used engines, and after a year or two of light use, they always seems to go bad.. So I  just want to try and rebuild what I already have,.. Its pretty clean looking, good lower unit, electric start remote steer etc.. Rings and gasket set as well as the factory manual, probably less than around 150-175... Just looking for any thoughts, insight,  helpful advice. "tech support" from those that have done similar, or those that are serious outboard motor guys with more experience than I have.. any suggestions would be well appreciated... bob

 price reduced-The 30 HP and 70 hp still for sale.. both run pretty well, and will start right up, but can use a  freshen up as stated.. $300  for the merc, $200 for the Johnson.. Just the lower units on either motor  are worth more than the asking price..  same with the power tilt system on the Merc.. both motors come with controls  as well.. both motors are fairly clean cosmetically as well,, not perfect, but not  beat up either...

  still looking for 10 or 12 foot aluminum boat... something we can throw in a pickup bed, and use on small lakes either with oars or a 4 hp... bob

 Candor NY... Lots of guys with dozers  around here, but the prices were astronomical. From what I have been told, , $20,000 is a  more than fair price for a pond the size of a big swimming pool.. Guess I'm not going to be getting a pond dug...

...

I realize this is an old thread but would love to comment, and perhaps even get a reply or two... I see guys with 1/2 acre ponds, bass in them, and one posted a cost of $5000.. Fair enough.. I have tried for YEARS to find someone to do it, NO interest really, and they finally after  many calls and inquiries, I found 2 different  doze operators/contractors, and each one wanted close to $20,000 dollars!!!.. Thats for about 1/4 to 1/3 an acre!!!. Tiny pond. Not even 1/2 acre... Needles to say, I still don't have a pond.. Maybe  i don't get it, but can't, a 1/2 acre pond be dug in a weekend?.. Do these guys REALLY need  $10,000 a day to run their dozer??... bob

 I never really considered perch a spooky fish really.. If they are around, typically they hit and aren't line shy.. I know everyone here uses small minnows, or small grub bodies etc, but personally, I have always caught them on plain old worms i dug out of the yard, caught at night after a  rain, or simply picked off  the driveway after a heavy rain.. I am NOT a perch specialist like some guys, and am just as happy catching rock bass, sunnies, or crappies... bob

meh... What did everyone do 50 years ago, before digital high tech fish finders, GPS, spot lock etc,etc, etc... They anchored up or drifted, depending on weather, and they caught plenty of fish...

The reason some guys don't like white perch is hey get stunted fast... they can get huge in some places. and are more of a game fish than a pan fish.. If they are a size where cleaning them is worth it, they are a great eating fish.. If they are really badly stunted, they are merely another bait species... They do MUCH  better in  brackish tidal rivers  than they do in lakes.. lots of killies,silversides, grass shrimp in those places, and  more predators that eat them such as Bluefish, Weakfish, Stripes, Fluke, not to mention things like pickerel and LMB as they move closer to fresh water in tidal rivers,creeks... They just don't seem to stunt and overpopulate the way they do in lakes... I thought  the Muskies and Walleyes in Otisco would keep them from overpopulating, but I guess not// Alewives might be the preferred food source over the much spinier white perch...

Still looking for small cheap aluminum boat.... 12 foot or less.. I bought a nice 14 footer, but its too large and heavy for what I am going to need  it for,, Would swap  straight across for 10 or 12 footer, or still looking to buy one outright....

are people actually selling bluegills, perch,white perch??.. I didn't know that was even a thing in this day and age. Where would anyone  even sell sunnies and 10 inch perch?

1- mid 90's  evinrude 2 HP.. Runs like a champ, starts right up -very good shape-hardly any use.. Kept it in a boat as a backup- I have planed a 12 foot boat with it, NO problem, This is  the model with tank on top... can start and run any time   No issues.. $200

 2- 1996 30 HP Johnson  long shaft, electric start, remote steer... Runs  very well at speed, great condition  lower unit, new water pump, actually  runs very strong while planing. used it all last summer.. however, its  getting tired- has lean sneeze at idle speed, and although the compression is even, its like 90 PSI each cyl.. A good strong  30 HP should be closer to  120-130.. It needs rings .. just  getting tired,  kind of like its owner-  we're both little tougher to start than a few years ago, and need a freshen up on the rings. No major scoring or anything on  cyl walls, just age and use .. Can demonstrate here or  in boat on the water when the weather gets warmer if interested...  $250

3-1987 Merc 70 HP- Long shaft/power tilt-comes with binnacle mount controls---  starts up and  runs quite well, but  #2 cyl is lower in compression than 1 and 3,  I think last time I check   1 and 3 were at 120 or so PSI and #2 was 90-95 psi  ... Its been this way for many years, and was never an issue, but I can't sell it as a 100% good engine.. Runs fine, idles ok, power till works well, pretty nice cosmetically.. Can demonstrate here or on water  when  weather warms ... $350..

all prices firm, thanks.... Will trade for  or toward[with cash] 12 foot  aluminum boat-,or  9.9 HP tiller 2 stroke, -or 20-40 HP  remote steer  2 stroke outboard motor -  will consider any  brand.... bob

1 hour ago, rolmops said:

There is no state launch at the south end of Owasco lake. As for launching in the creek, It is quite close to the Marina. Where you would normally swing left to go to the marina, you can also go straight onto the dirt road into the heron rookery nature reserve. After a bit you should be able to turn east toward the creek and launch in there. Beware though, it is swampy and quite often muddy. You do not want to get stuck in there.

 OK, thats good information.. I am in the process of buying a 12 foot aluminum  boat to haul in my pickup. and have a couple little 4 HP motors... i have never been to that area, but that swampy stuff looks like great LMB water  Might be fun to give it a shot one day, even though I am not a LMB kind of guy really.... Truck is 4 whl drive, so unless its really horrible I should be ok... I'll have to check it out along with the marina this spring.... bob