bulletbob

 Great fish, but most  of us don't get to fish private lakes loaded down with massive panfish.. Guys was regularly catching 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 pound crappies!...   Most lakes with public access   don't  have crappies that size in any numbers.. Seriously.. a Crappie almost 5  pounds?.. In NY?.. Must be a very productive, very fertile lake without  much fishing pressure.

 In most lake I fish for Crappies, I am thrilled to catch a 10 incher these days..They just get hit too hard...

Tiagodoton?   New dinosaur species?

 I use a Garmin much like yours, and the image looks like what I see all the time.. That was a school of bait suspended  just above bottom... The mid depth clutter is a common sight as well.. It can be an area of fragmented chopped up vegetation suspended through the water column, on Cayuga it might be a concentration of fleas, or  might even be an area of thinly dispersed small bait fish.  I didn't see a lot of larger marks on the periphery of your "bait ball".. You might not have had many fish down there... OR, the bottom might have been paved with them, just lying   on or near bottom totally inactive, and not eating, pursuing,, or even moving,.. lakers can and do shut down at times, like many other fish.

 As far as seeing your jig, I often can't as well, and other times, it is clear as a bell, and I can see its movement in detail not matter how slightly I may move it.. If your boat is perfectly motionless, and your jig is anywhere near the sonar cone, and you still can't see it, you may want to check your transducer angle/placement..

 btw,  A fish finder is a rough guide, NOT a magic bullet that can't miss.. I have had wonderful fishing on barren looking bottom with not a bait  ball or fish echo in sight, and have had dead, dreary fishless days without ever  getting even a touch with screens that were lit up like  a Christmas tree with lots of bait, and big V marks all around it... Keep up what you are doing, find bait, look for fish near the bait, and before long, you'll hit it when the fish are active and chasing..... Then hang on.. bob

 Do the majority of Walleyes suspend in Otisco, or are there usually sufficient  enough numbers on or near bottom so they can be fished for  with jigging, or bait/bottom fishing  techniques?... bob

 There was a wonderful salt water sport fishing writer that  wrote several famous books on  fresh and saltwater angling, and was a regular  contributor/ writer in many outdoor mags  and was an editor for Salt Water Sportsman magazine for 20 years... Name was Frank Woolner.

 Something he wrote about tournaments and angling  in general  many decades ago, has stuck in my mind for probably close to 45-50 years and I would like to share it,, very short and to the point-

"Angling should be a contemplative sport, NOT a competitive sport"

 To those that think bass tourneys are a "good" thing...  Go to the weigh in/release area  a day or two after, and look at all the dead bass.. BIG breeders...  Do you REALLY think that a bass can stand being thrown into a livewell for hours and then smashed against the fiberglass as the boat rockets all over the lake at 50 MPH.??.. Cayuga was once considered one of the very best LMB lakes in the entire US.. For YEARS!... Then the tournaments started   every year by the dozen... They  decimated the northern end of that lake with the endless tournaments  that are "good for the  local economy"..

 Sorry NOT buying it.    Whats good for the local economy is a good supply of fish that  average people want to come and catch, and will support local businesses  long term as they visit regularly...
 Tournaments one after another  just destroy a bass fishery.. Its nonsense to think they help it in any way at all... bob

 I know Chinooky was just having fun, but in reality if you see a few boats working an area with jigs, that typically could be a good starting point.. If I see a few guys jigging hard, and sticking around, I figure they might know something I don't... NEVER go right where they are fishing..  Go  a couple hundred yards from where they are, and keep an eye on the screen for bait balls, and individual marks.. These days when you  see more than one boat jigging an area say a half mile  long, you can bet that its a zone that produces at least occasionally...

The fish are not everywhere, and the more you fish the more productive  spots you will find.. Always  keep your distance, more than you think is correct, but also realize that good fishermen know where the  fish are located, and use it to your advantage if you can do it  without becoming obnoxious.

I can't offer specific advice for Canadice, but can tell you this-

You will always have a better chance at picky lakes VERY early in the am..  I have seen them shut down at around 6:30 after hitting like crazy at  5-6 am...Just like someone shut off a light switch..  I have always  found the lakers on Keuka, Seneca and Cayuga to hit best very early morning, and I mean first  like first light twilight before the sun comes over the treetops...

 Of course you can catch lakers  even at mid day, and some guys have the knack to get out at 10 am and still do great, but not me... Early morning has always been  the best time, and in mid summer I have seen a hot bite shut down well before 7 am many times... Get out to your  jigging spot  where you know there are a few lakers,while its still a bit dark out one time, and see if you agree....bob

https://www.discount-marine-parts.com/ob_scott_atwater.html

 Bows or Browns on Keuka??.. Good luck with that... They technically still exist in the lake I think, but a report on someone actually catching one is pretty  rare.

Most of what you will catch trolling is small, very skinny lakers... Typically this time of year, they are suspended deep on points.. They can be anywhere in Keuka north end to south, but  last few years have seen more on the south side of various points for some reason on this lake...

 Dryden Lake.. Sunnies, perch, crappies, bullheads.. Bobber with a worm 3-4 feet under and a small hook will do the trick.. If you can get some small minnows, you might catch some   some crappies as well. Loaded with weeds this  time of year, so you might have to look around for water open enough to fish..

I know this is sacrilege, but if you want to catch bass in the hot weather when they don't seem to want to hit lures, Try  some big live shiners.. They will move for  a live shiner when they won't budge for a piece of rubber or plastic.. Same with big live nightcrawlers, but the sunnies and perch tear those to pieces before the bass get to them. Many times, I have seen guys throwing every lure they hadnat visible LMB in shallow water and the bass would not even look at what they were throwing. I would walk over with a hook and worm  toss it out and the bass would strike it instantly....Live bait is always a good bet when you don't know the water very well....bob

2 hours ago, spages said:

Seneca resorts is definitely after the money. I have a seasonal site there and launch was free last year. This year 100 for the season. I pay them enough already that it should have continued to be free. It was the only place I found a site by the water so I took it.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Lake Ontario United mobile app
 

 Of course, that was the reason the ""partnered"" with NY state.. to make money.. Funny thing is, Sampson is more crowded than ever before, so I guess they did something right.. Personally I liked it a LOT better before  all the 'improvements".... bob

 Get used to it.. the state is broke and wants little to do with spending a  fortune to fix a state marina... I read with great interest right on these pages, many members here giddy with anticipation at the thought of a private money making enterprise administering the marina and ramp.. I knew before they ever   lifted  single board of a dock exactly what would happen.. They are there to make MONEY, not to provide a service for payers of state taxes.

 I thought the ramp was fine as it was .. Getting weathered and dated looking, but nothing  a little dredging, some dock work could not have fixed... Still saw lots of 20-25 footers going in and out without many issues.. The money went into the marina and  supporting facilities to appease the Cabin cruiser set with big pockets... I never understood all the glee i saw during the "Upgrading"... bob

 From my understanding, lakers feed heavily on schools of alewives during full moonlight... Who knows, maybe those undulating schools light up like  a Christmas tree, and the lakers are on them all night, and just don't want to eat much during the day... Sounds very simplistic of course, but its as good an explanation as any.. I don't troll, but can say the lakers don't bite much on my jigs  either  after a night of full moonlight..

 I find the same thing after the passing of  a cold front, when the skies  are cloudless and deep blue with bright sunshine.. Can't buy a bite after about 6 am..... bob

There are several articles on the net about   this... Search "making a boat hard top"... Here's one...
https://goneoutdoors.com/build-own-boat-hardtop-5498402.html

1 hour ago, Sk8man said:

Many of our problems start with man....and hsi tries to manipulate natture. A good recent example is obver in Tasmania. Thye were worried about facial tumors appearing on the animal called Tasmanian Devils so they transported a bunch of them to supposedly "protect" them to an uninhabited island where theeir were only birds and they ate every single penguin and other birds on that island. Now they are scratching thier heads wondering why they did it. Everywhere you look there are examples of man's attempt to intervene in nature and nearly always it ends in disaster.

absolutely correct.  The sawbellies were never supposed to be there in the first place. They are salt water invasives that came into this area initially through the Welland Canal.
 However, now that they are here, they are the main reason all the trollers can catch big trout and salmon in the great lakes as well as the finger lakes.. Without them,  the fish would be smaller and less abundant, and its doubtful the populations would  do as well as they do.

 I see them today as a "necessary evil".  The fish in Keuka need a food source thats rich in calories... Landlocked alewives seem the best bet..If they get too  abundant?- Do what all the southern states do to help control them-Put stripers in the lakes.  NY has never had much interest in them, but a LOT of states do, and the anglers there love them.

 In any case, Keuka needs help.. Its astounding how depressed that entire fishery has become compared to 15-20 years ago. As I mentioned earlier, I don't even bother anymore.. Switched to Skaneateles when I don't fish Cayuga... For me anyway, the fishing has been better there... bob

 big heads thin bodies on fish in any body of water anywhere is bad news.. Underfed fish, plain and simple as we all know... I still say the DEC needs to  forget ciscoes  and just  load the lake back up with sawbellies,  so these fish can eat.

 Les gave a fine   opinion based on long experience.. I am not a kid at 67, and  am not native to the FL Region.. I moved here exactly 30 years ago. June 1991.
 

 I was  amazed at the fishing.   As stated, I sold a  Wellcraft Center Console I used  fishing the bays and ocean in NJ, simply because, i didn't need it to catch fish.. I recall working as a tech/mechanic in Ithaca, and running down to the lake mid day during my lunch hour, casting from shore, and  catching big Browns, Salmon, Lakers, SMB, Pike, Pickerel,  massive panfish,,, once in a while a 25  pound or better Carp, just wonderful fishing I thought would never end... Until it did... This is a great forum, and there are a lot of great guys  that are wonderful, knowledgeable fishermen.
 The only regret I have is that a lot of guys think the lakes are fine as long as the stocked trout get fat on sawbellies, and hit their deep trolled  lures in open water... Those of us  that  fish for panfish and  species like Pike and Bass have noticed  that  some of these populations are in freefall.   Invasives and over development are killing these lakes- its that simple.. More noticable in near shore habitats than in the cold water zones, and it seems to grow worse every year..   I hope  things change for the better in my lifetime.... bob

On 6/14/2021 at 2:07 PM, shaneo19 said:

Sawbellies in a lake have consequences.   They have overrun Seneca.   Skaneateles Lake does not have sawbellies and the fishing is fine there.  The fish aren't as big but they are pretty abundant and taste better without the sawbellies.   If a healthy population of sawbellies re-emerged in Keuka my prediction would be a decline in the perch and bass fishing with an increase in the trout sizes.  So I guess it depends on what you value as a fisherman.  The Fingerlakes as a whole seemed much healthier when smelt were the primary forage fish.   

 I understand where you are coming from.. I agree with some of what you posted, but have some disagreements as well.. Sawbellies aren't native and don't belong in these lakes. agreed.. However, neither are browns or rainbows, and I think the landlocks are only native in Cayuga.. Once those species were introduced long ago, the  natural balance of the  lakes had to change as well. Nowadays, if the sawbellies collapse, so might the salmonid populations.. Smelt are decimated compared to years ago, Gobies have infested some of the lakes are have displaced many small bottom dwelling species that can't compete[Sculpins]..  Bass and panfish don't need sawbellies and do fine without them.. Not sure this board would even exist without sawbellies in he Fingers and the Great Lakes, as this  board is 95% trollers, and the first thing most of them do is find the bait concentrations, which in the modern age is sawbellies... I agree that these lakes would be better off without sawbellies, BUT, they might be useless to the multiple thousands of guys that troll these lakes for the stocked trout and salmon that feed exclusively on sawbellies  these days.. yes the are eating gobies as well, but even with lakers, I find 100  sawbellies for every goby in  thier stomachs.. All these lakes are not what they were a few decades ago... Invasives and over development have really taken their toll.

 There was a point in the 90's where I sols my boats, as I was catching all the fish I wanted just by fishing from shore. Yes even trout and landlocks, except for a few ,onths mid summer, and even then I caught a few... bass, big perch, Pike, quarter to half pound bluegills and rock bass, all day every day on both Cayuga and Seneca... Once the mussels, fleas, Gobies,  rampant development came around, everything changed, especially around the shorelines.. I have told the story on these pages about how I stood on the shores of seneca with my kids in the 90's ... Tossed a few garden worms into the water and the second they  started to sink, there were foot long flashes coming from every direction, just nice fish milling around everywhere.. These days, I do the exact same thing, and watch the worm sink unmolested, all the way to the bottom, where it just wigglkes around... On Cayuga, if I do the same, when the worm gets near the bottom, there are no foot long flashes anymore  as the worm  sinks, but when it get near bottom, it is   torn into by  hundreds of Gobies swarming from every direction... Yes the stocked  sawbelly fattened  trout trolling is still good, which I know is the  focal point of this forum, but believe me, these lakes are not near what they should be ..  The life in them is not  what it was  20 years ago. I fear for their future,,, bob

 Not looking to argue.. Too old for that crap!.. I am no fishery biologist, but know the fish need something to eat....  Just wondering why they can't  stock sawbellies.. I suppose Ciscoes are native to the lake, but I don't think they are as prolific as the sawbellies..

 

 If they want to stock something in the lake, they ought to keep dumping sawbellies in there, every year until they stick..  That lake needs a forage base... bob

 Yeah,I knew they went deeper, but when I have to jig  in 125-150 FOW I lose interest fast.. 70- maybe 80 feet is ok... Next trip, when the  early morning bite dies, I will try 90-100 feet, fish on screen or not...

 Did you find that   they stopped hitting and persueing the jigs as the sun got higher?... It might be just me, but  after about 7 am, I can't buy a hit on the jig these days, but between first light  until 6 am or so, they are very active.. Years ago, I would catch them at any hour, even mid day.. Not any more.. Might be something I am doing wrong.. For me, as soon as the sun is over the treetops, and lighting up the water column, the bite stops dead.. I try moving deeper, but it doesn;t help... I did notice the trollers were out   mid lake over 250 FOW,, maybe  the fish  move mid lake -suspended and deep, instead of just deeper water and on the bottom.. bob

 To be honest, I Only fish at Keuka  rarely these days.. I simply don't catch fish there anymore, and i just don't see any screens either... When I started fishing there about 16-17 years ago, I caught so many lakers  I would get sick of looking at them.. 30 fish in a few hours was no big deal... They were small even then compared to other lakes... Screens would light up like  a Christmas tree, with  lakers up and down the  water column...

 The bag limit even went to  5 fish on lakers before any of the  other lakes if I recall.

 Past several years, I see no more fish on the  color screen, and I just don't catch fish there anymore... I suppose I could always be there at the wrong time, or at  the wrong place every time, or all the lures and techniques i used for years there  to good effect are no longer valid, or something... I just no longer catch anything there, at least not enough to keep me going back...  I might be missing something, and I know  the bait is gone, but in my opinion so are a LOT of the lakers.....  The  screens simply don't lie,, areas I used to fish that were thick with lakers are now totally devoid of them...  I  usually fish from mid  lake north,, I dunno, maybe the lakers have better feed at the south end, and thats why I don't see them ,, Also, I see a LOT less guys jigging for lakers than I did at one time, and thats always  a tell tale sign,, Where there are fish available, you can  be sure there will be fishermen after them... I simply don't see as  many as I did years ago... Honestly it could all be on me.. Perhaps I have totally lost all my skill as a fisherman.. For me, Keuka has become a lost cause, I  just can't catch lakers there any longer... Even the bass and panfish don't seem as good, but again, I have lost confidence there, and don't fish it as much as I used to.....  I do NOT think taking more fish out of the lake is a long term solution..bob