bulletbob

10 hours ago, jimmac said:

Well I don't understand why you would not even ask why it isn't worth it. Just because its weathered, I doubt it. Sounds like people gave you a recommendation so I assume its a reputable mechanic. He didn't perhaps say no compression? You didn't ask? Doesn't add up.

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  I told him the compression was ok...  He simply said, it would cost more to fix than its worth, and come get it.. As I wrote  I don't think he ever  really looked at it..  maybe for a minute or two, decided it wasn't worth his time to diagnose it.. I can't say why really.. You are right it doesn't add up
 When I brought it up to him, I explained everything in detail about what it was doing, told him to call with an estimate , unless it was something simple and was going to cost under $250 or so...   Its  just water under the bridge now, but he and the  other shops have lost a potential customer.. As I said, I am now in my mid 60's and was starting to do less of this sort of thing, pulling motors apart.. I will simply do it myself as I always have, or  just buy a decent used motor..  Really bad experiences at the last 3  marine engine shops, all reputable.. Could just be bad luck, but I will never again take the chance.. bob

37 minutes ago, jimmac said:

I would be intetested to know why shop #1 felt the motor was not worth fixing?? Had to be something major wrong with the engine that they explained to you? Not making sense to me.

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 I don't think he wanted to work  on it to be honest... he had a lot of other work, big cruisers, total refits etc, and I simply think he never looked at my motor... After waiting from Mid March to mid June, and  calling him several times and him saying" we'll  look at  it soon", he called and said, "come get it, its not worth fixing"..  He wanted a bigger pay day than that little motor  was going to provide.. When he saw how disgusted I was , he said something about " well you only wanted to spend $200".. I  NEVER once said that.. I said to call with an estimate if its going to be over $200.. I told him more than once, I would even   have him replace the powerhead if it needed it..   All he had to do when I called  about taking the boat 100 miles to his shop was say he didn't want small jobs, or was too busy etc.. DON'T make me drive 2 1/2 hours each way, wait for 3 damn months, and never even look at the motor.. thats what he did.. I told him how disappointed I was, and that I expected so much better, based on all  the glowing recommendations i had gotten.. He didn't have much of an answer really, because that was the truth.. He simply should not have had me come all the  way up  there...  The motor looks   "well used" to be honest, lived a tough life, but still runs strong.. he probably is used to much cleaner newer, nicer stuff through his shop.... Maybe thats why he said it wasn't worth fixing, but in that case he should have refused the job in the first place, and not had me wait 3 months  and miss the entire spring/early summer...bob

3 hours ago, Xxx said:

 I know how frustrating things can be at times, especially if you know in your mind you can do the job but the body or time won't!!! So sorry to hear of your rape and pillage that the so called "Technician" looked at your engine/motor. I especially like the comment that maybe the shop you took your motor to was to "High Tech" for your old school motor😁😁.. Or you just masked a problem that will come back to haunt you somewhere down the road since you fixed the fuel pressure issue. There's a code of relativity with and combustion engine from model air planes to top Fuel drag motors which we won't get into but with the knowledge you stored in your mind I'm thinking you knew what the issue was but to get at it and or time you knew it was a quick fix. Good Lord things just keep getting better!! Hats off to the quick repair and now you shouldn't need near the throttle to get to your hot spot as your wallet weighs considerably less😜😜 not funny for those of us who are mindful of our spending.🤙🤙

 I knew it was fuel related, but   as I stated, I am a 4 stroke tech, not 2 stroke so much.. I really have no idea what the proper pressure is on an older   2 stroke fuel pump, nor what to use to check it.. maybe ts a plain old vacuum gauge that i used 40 years ago on carbureted engines on cars, not sure.. I had already cleaned the carb and adjusted the floats etc.. Could have also been a  bad float or something.. I wanted it done correctly, and was willing to pay a fair price..

  I actually had NO problem with the $320 bill, IF I got good value, and a proper repair..  2  spark plugs, 2 fuel hose ends, 1 $15  fuel  valve  and an hours labor isn;t worth $320.. Not only that, I specifically told shop #2 to CALL if the bill was going to be over $200.. They did not...  My problem is that the  motor was not fixed for the $320, and not the price so much, and the fact that any decent marine mechanic should be ashamed if a customer could repair an engine  that they could not...  Lesson learned..  Next time, I'll just throw parts at  until its  fixed.. Cheaper by far that way...  Hell, a clean used powerhead  with good compression for my outboard can be had all day on ebay for $250, I checked...    Same thing happens to people with car repairs each and every day.. Techs need to show some pride in their craft, and make SURE  their repairs are done right... bob

1 hour ago, Fat Trout said:

I wont disagree with your frustration but the reality is there is a lot more tech in newer motors. I imagine with lets say a 25yo motor shops are struggling to have people who handle both old tech and new. I had the same problem with a 2003 25hp but that was in 2008...fuel pump couldnt handle the ethanol that became more prevalent. Diaphragm got stiff. Diagnosed pretty quickly as that was a common problem at the time. Shops that cant handle the old should turn away the work or better frame the expectations.

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 Thats a well thought out answer, and I can  understand.. However it seems these  90's    OMC  2 stroke motors are still everywhere, I see a lot of them still  in use out there, and both shops in question had older very experienced  people there,, These are well established, well respected businesses.. Thats why i am so   disgusted.  Remember shop #1 told me  the motor was shot, come get it, its not worth fixing... Really?.. Doesn't  seem  like thats a very good evaluation,  when its running  strong  after a simple $12 fuel pump replacement. done in my driveway.. bob

1 hour ago, rolmops said:

If you want to prevent this robbery service, buy a dedicated manufacturer's service manual ( not a crap aftermarket like Seloc) a pressure gauge  and  some simple tools. A 28 horse 2 stroke is a simple motor.

 Yes the Selocs do suck.. Lots of good info these days on youtube as well. i have all the tools needed pretty much. just not the time/energy, but I have  decided thats no longer an excuse. bob

3 hours ago, Gator said:

That sounds really frustrating. My marine mechanic has been great to me. But I know that sometimes with outboards it can be a mystery as to why they're failing. You've got to try to address obvious solutions first, before digging deeper. There's a few guys on here who have great reputations, and for good reason, but sometimes even the best of them can get it wrong. I'm glad that you have a working motor. However, there's always the possibility that you may have simply masked a larger issue that's going to reoccur given time. I'd wait a few months before rushing to judgement. Best of luck!

No, I masked nothing.. it was just a bad fuel pump... I am a retired auto technician and i was a damn good one, Computers, fuel injection, automotive electronics etc.  Not  a 2 stroke expert however, strictly  4 stoke kind of guy ., However at 65, and with 2 very active  grandkids that i watch sometimes 5-6 days a week, I have been tending to "leave it to the experts" more as i grow older. This last fiasco has taught me to NEVER under any circumstance trust the "experts", even those that are highly recommended..
 I'll  just do it myself..

It was a very simple repair that should have been found quickly by shop #1.. The fact that TWO  shops couldn't  fix such a simple  problem is shocking to me. Plus  changing lower unit oil hat was just changed, and  changing plugs that had nothing to do with the   high speed cutting out is telling me that someone was simply padding the bill.. On top of that, AFTER I paid  $320 for diagnostic time, AND "repairs", I am told "We can water test it for $150".. WHAT?... As stated,  I will never again trust  any place to fix anything.. I have always done so myself, and should have kept on doing what I always did.. Even buying  factory tools you only use once  is better than paying  that kind of money AND almost 4 months time,  for a repair that did not happen..

 FOUR damn months,  $320 to shop #2, and $75 gas  driving 400 miles total back and forth to shop#1,and these  2 reputable shops could not figure out a  weak fuel pump on an old Johnson 28?.. I simply took a day when the kids weren't here, got a few tools out, and had it fixed within an hour, for $12.. Never again..  Sorry for the rant, I am just pretty bitter, as I lost all of April/May and June with no boat, when I started   getting it taken care of in Mid march...  It is what it is.. Like I should have done in the first place, and always have done since i was a kid, I'll do it myself , and if I can't I'll just buy another... bob

  My    motor is an  early 90's 28 HP Johnson.. Took it  in mid March to a very highly regarded repair shop that  I was directed to right here on these pages..

   Its a 2 1/2 hour drive -100 miles each way from me..

 Called  a few  times starting late April regarding status of the repair........ "we'll get to it, we'll get to it"...
 Fast forward to mid June..  Finally got a call.. Come get your boat, the motor is shot.. Not worth fixing... Furious ,I again drove the 100 miles each way,  The motor was never even looked at, I am certain...
 

 Brought it to highly qualified  OMC dealer, decades of experience, much closer to me... They  called 2 week later.. motors done come and get it.. $320...

   Here is what $320 bought me..
  2 new  spark plugs that it did not need, motor was running ok at low speed, and started fine.. NOT a bad plug problem

  Maintainance valve kit [$14 online],

2  fuel line  connector ends -one at  6 gal tank, one at motor..

  1 pint lower unit lube that i just changed   last year when I replaced water pump, had less than 5 hours..
 

   anyway,Took boat to lake,  same problem,,  dying at speed...

 When I called them, the "reputable dealer", said they could lake test the boat... for an additional $150, and then repair it correctly,  ... maybe...

 disgusted at the ineptitude and what I consider price gouging,  me, the  know nothing do it yourselfer, had it repaired properly in  5 minutes with a  $12  cheapo ebay fuel pump..

  Motor now runs   100%. with a $12 part installed by a guy with   only modest knowledge of 2 strokes... How these people can hold their heads up and consider themselves good business owners and technicians  is beyond me,,,
 This goes hand in hand with a Merc dealer a few years ago that charged me $325 to install  a water pump impeller in a merc 9.8..

 NEVER as long as i live will i EVER  again say, that I'm "getting too old,too tired  too busy" to deal with outboard repairs...  each time I have tried has been a disaster,  

   Next time, if  i can't find or fix the problem myself, I'll just buy a used outboard ...
 

 I won't argue, we will just have to agree to disagree.. You are free to  blame global warming, and  I'll blame the  hundreds of thousands of tons of  cow  manure and   massive amounts of other organics that find their way into the finger lakes each year... bob

22 minutes ago, cinnamon fish said:

Thanks Les, very informative as always with your amazing posts.  In my much more limited experience, I've always been able to drive my boat out of the green water by heading up the lake a bit or just generally by moving to another area of the lake even if it's quite a ways.  This year was the first year that no matter how far I went, the color stayed green on some days out there.  It seemed the various algae was literally everywhere.  I hadn't ever seen it like that before, there was always an area to get away from it in the past for me.  I understand there are many factors.  The amount of rain and flooding the last 2-3 years has been more than we've seen in quite awhile too. 

 Problem is, it has been a fairly normal summer.. Normal rain really, and not especially hot.. We had a run of about 3 hotter than normal days, otherwise, pretty standard.. I was out on Skinny the other day, and it  is no longer a clear clean looking lake.. the water was skungy looking,    clarity pretty poor, and the lake which  had NO weeds  15 years ago, now has nasty, brown slimy looking stuff everywhere..  The lake is now nothing but homes, and HUGE farms,, Cornfields totally encircle the lake now, and you can watch the cattle graze on the hillsides in some areas while you fish...  I am sick over it... Everyone wants a piece of the lake.. Well we got what we wanted, and these gorgeous glacial lakes are paying a very stiff price... bob

 "Climate change" has nothing to do with it..  Its due to  the lakes being CHOKED with  homes, large and small, all with septics that DO leach into the lake over time, its due to farms , wineries, parks, marinas, that are wherever the homes aren't.. These lakes have been decimated by   the   encroachment of too many people, too many cows, corn fields, vineyards. all dumping organic material into the lakes by the mega ton ... bob

 The Finger Lakes were clear, clean deep cold glacial lakes for thousands of years.. native Americans drank the water right from the lakes, and  easily netted fish by the ton.. Now after a few scant decades they are quickly becoming cesspools, full of nasty  critters that have NO damn business being there, and being pumped full of crap from cows, domestic pets, and humans..  That doesn't even include the chemical fertilizers ..

We are paying the price for saturating the shorelines with million dollar homes. Think of all the septic systems around all these lakes..  A LOT of that sewage will eventually wind up  in the lakes.. It doesn't just magically disappear, same as the  thousands  of tons of cow crap, and whatever else is spread on the  fields that totally surround the lakes these days, .. that is, wherever there are no mansions of course.
. Nowadays  if you go fishing, get poked by a fin, and get an infection, it might kill you.. just lovely.....bob

 If anyone  catches a few Crappie or perch  locally, they don't share any specifics ever here, - for whatever reason.. However, they limit out on 10-15 pound Browns/Rainbows/Salmon, you'll get lure type/color/depths/speed/temperature/ water clarity/rigger ball design/flea and weed reports, and GPS numbers... Never understood it..

When I want good eating fresh water fish, I go to clear water lakes with a few worms under a bobber  and  catch big sunnies.. Every bit as good eating as crappie, fight a lot harder , and no one keeps secrets about them..  they are just there and  readily available... bob

 Is it just me or does the wind on all the finger lakes blow ONLY due north or due south, despite what direction the wind is blowing inland?

 I have been on Cayuga ,Seneca,Skaneateles, Owasco Lakes dozens of times  getting blown up or down the lake, but on the shoreline 100 feet from the waters edge the  flags were barely moving.. In 28 years fishing these lakes, I don't think I ever remember even once getting blown ACROSS these lakes either east or west.. Only north or south.. Pretty unusual.. In the ocean the winds will  due east or west at times, more commonly they quarter from SW ,NE, or NW....bob

 Go to Sheldrake Point .. Deep water is right there and its free.. Not a ramp there per se, but hard ground right to lakes edge.. i used to launch  big heavy glass boats with no issue.. its a very nice area to dump a kayak in, and its free, and the lakers are  stones throw from where you launch.. At the state park, it would be an hours paddle one way to get into water deep enough for lakers... bob

1 hour ago, jimmac said:

Great post. Its amazing that a thread starts as a heads up on proper safety gear turns into a comedy about cnn, left wing radicals, the communist party, canadians taking your boat, smart phones vs dumb phones, dropping sh@t, flares burning you, cell phone batteries, etc. Who needs reality tv...its all right here.

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 I  I agree, but somewhere in this post the underlying theme is the concept of the slow  erosion of personal freedom, and those that applaud or at least accept it

Quote

 

 The NY state police marine patrols do indeed hassle people at times..     The Prowler V  party boat that  has been in business for decades, had just    had his annual CG safety inspection a few days before being boarded  by the NY state marine Police.. Had the documents to prove it.. Didn't matter,, With like 40 guys on board actively fishing, they boarded him, after following him for a while.. the captain  was  furious as i recall.. they KNOW these  guys cannot sail  without being 100%  USCG compliant, and they knew damn well who he is.. Its a well known , well respected 80 footer thats been on Raritan bay forever.. Good captain thats a real nice guy.. been on his boat several times, and its  always in top shape.. NO reason for him to be boarded  while fishing, in waters he has been plying all his life... In case anyone thinks this is a lie as well, here's a link to  the forum that I read about it in... https://www.njfishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108989

  The ticket for outdated flares was given to a member of Noreast.com, a very large saltwater forum for LI, SI and coastal NY/NJ that I am a member of...  He shared it earlier this year.. It was not given upstate, but on coastal NY waters. Not sure if he appealed it, but i would have.
    I have a feeling it was given by an officer that may not have understood the regulations very well..

 From what I understand, you certainly can have out dated flres, as long as you also have compliant ones aboard.
  What many here do not seem to understand is that a LOT of officials that are patrolling the water, are NOT specifically trained to be on the water, especially here in upstate.. Coastal zones are more likely to have full time patrols.. Up here they will be mostly gone after Labor day.

 These are NOT Marine law specialists, and the membership here probably has a lot more knowledge and experience in marine law  than the 25 year old kid that might write a ticket.. 

Downstate. there are TONS of problems because local,county and state marine patrols also issue tickets for undersize fish, and bag limits, along with the separate DEC patrols.. There are many mistakes.   Many reports  on the salt water fishing  sites from irate angles ticketed for short Fluke[Summer Flounder], when in reality the guys had Windowpane flounder or 4Spot Flounder, both of which are somewhat similar, but are NOT regulated in size or in bag limit.. Yes NY state DOES allow non DEC personal to check bag and size limits downstate, each and every day.. Honestly, if thats what some members here think is a good thing, not much i can say about it i suppose... bob

 Remote steer/ Long shaft.. Can't use a tiller... Need a  decent outboard for a 14 foot grumman with side console and steering wheel.. Has a 28 Johnson SPL on it now but its getting tired..  Not looking to spend a fortune as the boat is 40 years old, and is simply not worth spending a lot of money on...

 I can certainly pay a fair price for a decent motor... Will need controls unless its an OMC...  If anyone has a motor I can use, i would love to talk about it, and settle on a price!... bob

 Boy thats a LOT of boat for the money.. good luck with the sale,,,  Super deal...

 Pro Line boats are not real well known or real popular up here in NY state, but down in NJ and LI the ocean and bays are full of them, and they are  very well respected as a very solid and stable big water hull.. Nice deal on this one...

On 6/16/2019 at 5:24 PM, Lewis863 said:

Funny this argument of safety vs tickets and money.  Statistics show the quickest way to reduce accidents and fatalities in an area is aggressive enforcement and tickets.  So whine all ya want.  Hypothesize about the dark motivations of the evil in the system... but some morons only understand the stick and have no common sense...

 

to rhe poster wondering if he was required  to have a fire extinguisher on your open boat with an outboard ... do it because it’s smart... you have gas on board man seriously ....

 Yep,, Aggressive enforcement and tickets.. Yes sir, the BEST way to  assure a pleasant fishing/boating experience. Geez, thats REALLY what you  want ??.. Sacrificing personal freedom on the alter of  ""safety"".. ask  the venezuelans  how that worked out for them..   Big brother will take care of everything.. Surveillance is a GOOD thing.

 I always have  proper safety equipment, and usually carry 3 or 4 methods of propulsion.. In my 17 footer, i have a 70 HP main engine, a 4 HP  on the stern alongside it as backup, and a 2 HP gas outboard stowed away as backup to the backup. 2 paddles as well, always.

 i carry an extinguisher that works, i have all required equipment, plus double the number of PFD's i would ever need.. However, when tickets are  handed out for a perfectly GOOD PFD because the damn tag is missing,  yes, it is indeed a money grab When tickets are handed out because expired flares are on the boat along with UP TO DATE flares. yes. its a money grab..... 

NY is overwhelmed by Welfare, Medicaid,  Low  income housing costs for the  "gimmie class". and is desperate for any  new funding it can muster .. They get it where they can... Boat owners typically have money, and its a good a place as any.. Are you guys REALLY that naive' to think the state of NY is "watching out for your safety and well being".. really?.. On the finger lakes??.. Please, give me a break... bob

 Sorry, the state police are there to make money for the state.. NOT to "render assistance".. They'll be gone when the first winds of autumn stir, and will be back when summer approaches again.. in other words, in the time frame when most people would be desperate for help on the finger lakes, when the water is cold and the wind blows hard... Just another  NY state money grab.. If it were the USCG out there, I might be more inclined to say, "thanks for watching out for us  boaters", but the NY state police?...  they are Cuomo's errand boys, looking to turn a few  extra bucks for the general fund... bob

 I have a problem with all these so called "safety inspections"..   IMHO the are harassment, nothing more.

 Once the state gets involved in ""boater safety"", its get stifling in some areas,, I dare anyone here to try and boat in the coastal waters around LI, NYC, NJ, and staten Island... There are county marine police, municipal marine patrols,, State marine police, USCG, and NY /NJ DEC.. Constant "stop and frisk", constant annoyance. If you get caught crossing the NY/NJ   "line" wherever that is, and you are caught its a big fine unless you have a "boaters safety course" certificate on your person.. In other words, You can fish the NY side of the bay, but not allowed to fish the NJ side or even cross the line...  I was hoping that sort of CRAP was not going to happen upstate, but its a money maker I suppose, and I should not be surprised.. I can see it on  the Great Lakes I suppose,, because they can be killers.. The Fingers  are windy and you might get blown  30 miles from your ramp, but if the boat floats you won't drown.  Are they going to go after the guys in 30 footers trolling mid lake  or the guys with 12 footers, w 6 HP outboards fishing the shoreline for Bluegills?...  

Sorry for the rant, but in close to 50 years of boating, in NJ and NY, I have never felt "safer" because the state Marine Police were doing "safety inspections". I have felt more   annoyed and aggravated however... bob

6 hours ago, chugbug said:

Bob im surprised with your outlook on jigging , I consistently out fish the trollers in are camp with numbers and size at least with lakers , jigging  cant compete with trollers when it comes to salmon rainbows and browns we arent fishing in there temp. zone long enough to catch many although in the fall we get quite a few big bonus browns and rainbows when there plentiful .Back when  Owasco was stocked with a ridiculous amount of lakers we had 25 fish days and have done it on cayuga too its so much fun seeing the jig and the fish and the chase and one on one when you hook up !!!  Love it !!

 I too have had those 25-30 fish days, but its been quite a while.. Seneca used to be so good i stopped fishing cayuga altogether, but now its slowed a lot..
 The thing with jigging is you have to be   equipped with a seriously good trolling motor that allows you to stay vertical... Jigging is very good for guys that do it a lot, and have the right equipment, and have put the time in to learn when and where, what colors, how to move the lure.. Just like trolling the guys that do best have put a lot of time in, and are well set up..
 For the casual angler that doesn't have the best  trolling motor set up, or the time to learn the best spots and techniques, trolling deep with  a couple of cheap hand crank downriggers    would most likely catch more fish  day in day out.. Jiggers catch plenty of lakers, and some big ones no doubt, but there is a reason 90% of the guys fishing the Finger lakes for Salmonids of any species still troll.. bob

 I started jigging for lakers when I moved here in 1991.. Never liked trolling, and avoid it,,, However, jigging  will never replace trolling as the best way to catch lakers.. we have our days, and on any given day,  a guy jigging might catch 10 while the trollers are only picking one or two, but the odds are heavily stacked against us. a lot of the fish we read near bottom, are carp, catfish,  sheepshead, or dormant lakers that won't eat..
 trollers lures are seen  by  a LOT more fish than our vertical jigs are.. Jigging is for those of us that like it, are happy with   fewer fish and less action than the trollers get..    It IS an effective way to catch fish, certainly, but as far as numbers, no technique is near as efficient as trolling is...  We jig because it fun, its rewarding, there is a sense of accomplishment, but  trolling is the better method if you want more fish.. If I catch 2-3 lakers in a morning, I am very happy.. Some days I catch more, lots of days i don't hook up at all.. Its just the way it is for most of us that don't troll... bob