jekyll

I second the advice to spread money accross used riggers now and buy a probe. Upgrade riggers when money is available such as "Honey, what I really need for Christmas is a (fill in the blank)". There are used riggers all over the place looking for a new gun'l to ride. Heck, I have 2 slow speed Mag 10's with 5 foot stainless beems and a used manual Cannon in my basement. For the price of 2 new riggers, you can get 2 good used riggers, a new probe and rods and reels now. Buy used of the same brand you would like new so that your bases and wiring can stan stay in place. If you buy older Cannons, you can install the new power cords so that you will be ready for a fast swap in the future when money is available.

About 20 grand. .....

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That's a good start! About $50K low from memory

50# Flourcarbon for your fly leader about 22-24 inches from head of fly to loop or swivel at the other end of the leader. I like 22 inches for trolling between 1.8 and 2.4 mph on an 8 inch flasher. You should increase the leader length a bit for trolling faster although, I took a number of fish (Kings, browns and lakers) at 2.7 last weekend on a 22 inch leader. In fact, 2.7 mph on a 22 inch leader filled my box for a paying place in the LSRC Saturday.

Sticks Motel and Sports Bar has plenty of parking for a tow rig. 5 minutes from Mexico Point launch.

Friend of a friend took a 39 lb 7oz king off Alcan today on a charter. No real details except the wieght which was taken on certified scales. The boat was not in the LOC. The fish are certainly brawny this year. I've already broken-off one in this class. We should see some 40's this year.

May have asked this somewhere else, Will a 30 convector spool a full 1000' of 7 strand wire?

There is room for 100 yards of 30# mono

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Stagger your depths (dispy set backs) till you start taking fish and then adjust your dispies so you are close to that on your others (dispy setting). Fish tend to go deeper as the sun gets higher and vice versa. Read the forums to gleen temp levels or check the NOAA surface/bottom charts for clues. If you have a fish finder, watch for a termocline and spread your rigs at and below the line.

All probe read a bit differently, mine is 2.2 when my GPS speed is about 3.0 to 3.1. It is usually better to err on the high side rather than the low side.

Trolling = controlled depth fishing

Methods of controlling depth:

Down riggers take your line down to a desired depth.

Dipsy or jet divers run off braid, mono or stainless steel wire. The diver takes your rig down to a quazi-known depth based on setting, line diameter and amount of line out.

Thumper or pump handle uses heavy lead weights (10-16oz) to take your rig down. Line out, speed and line diameter are factored in to calculate depth attained.

Copper line used by itself. The weight of the copper sinks your rig at a fairly constant rate per length out.

Lead core, same as copper line but different depth curve.

Dive charts can be found for all the above methods. Charts list the variables such as line diameter, speed and deployed lengths to give an approximation of your depth. They allow you to get close to the depths you desire. Repeatability in your depth is also of great value.

Using copper or lead core to pull a dipsy diver places a lot of unecessary weight on your equipment. The diver takes your rig down. Obviously you proved one can use copper on a dipsy and take fish but, do you know the depth it is running at? You can repeat a setting that worked if the fish are in the same area but, if you want to target a specific depth where you see fish, you really don't have much of a clue if you start combining divers with weighted line. Hydraulics are such that without clear data, you don't know if the large diameter of the coper or lead core is limiting the depth the diver can attain due to substantially increased drag or, if the added wieght is adding to the depth. You could buy a Fish Hawk TD and measure the depth. Either way, pulling in a dipsy, flasher, fly and copper line is a real chore without a fish on it. Add a fish and you will develope Popeye arms in a hurry.

Some techniques can be easily added together such as running a short lenght of copper or lead behind a rigger ball. If you run a 50 foot lenght of 45lb copper off a rigger, your rig will be about 10-11 feet below your ball. Same with lead core figuring about 5.5 feet down per each color behind the ball. This type of rigging is called a SWR or Secret Weapon Rig and can be very effective. You need to ensure the entire lenght of copper or lead core is behind the release. Running a small dipsy off a rigger also works well but, you lose some depth from the rigger caused by additional blow back resulting from the drag of the dipsy.

In the end, trolling requires knowledge about the depths your rigs are running so you can put them in proximity of the hungry fish. The more accuratley you know your depth, the more fish you will take.

I have a small pyramid on the roof of my boat to absorb the negative energy. I don't know if it works but, the karma feels right.

Seriously though, I'm not an expert on positve ions but, when I switched from Cannon riggers to Big Jon, I wondered if the loss of P-ion might be a factor. I catch more fish now with the Big Jon riggers than I did when using Cannon. Probably just additional years of experience and learning.

Do a search for the black box. You will find several threads that address your question.

Why would you add a backer that is less strenght than the main line? Copper is fully deployed past the backing knot when using boards. 50lb braid seems a far better choice, more expensive than mono, I'll give you that. If you want to use 30lb mono as a backer, then switch to 32lb copper and you will be able to load a lot more backing to it. See the related threads on Bloodrun Copper. Other brands come in 32 lb as well.

We had 4 or 5 guys at my small marina install the new cable and antenna. Not a single one worked and they were all installed per the instruction pamphlet. 1 charter captain even had Torpedo install the clinher after working with them for a month. It still wouldn't work correctly.

Glad your's worked.

It's broken. Send it back for a replacement. Okuma will fix or replace. Don't need to strip the spool. Okuma will put your spool on a new reel should they replace it.

They do have great support for a product that doesn't work as advertised. I spooled up a new torpedo cable and antenna and water tested it today. It held steady at 50 feet and was intermitent to 83 feet. Dead beyond that. The liquid electrical tape is now curring on a new coated cable assembly. Anyone want my torpedo cable? Cheap, only used for 2 hours.

Edit: I'm using Depth Raider

Definately put the dipsy out to the side to widen the spread.

I just spooled one up the other day (convector 30d) with 300 ft of 30lb big game then a full spool of 30 lb 7 strand wire and it filled it up nicely without overfilling.

I guess my memory was correct about getting 100 yds of mono backing under the wire on a 30D.

Switch from flouro to mono for your leader - a bit more stretch. I use nothing but 30# mono for my leaders and, I use snubbers. I may have lost 1 flasher in the last 4 years.

Yeah, needs more cowbells.

Now I understand the price difference between bare hull and equiped. Nice boat.

Going bigger Tim

No, 28 is big enough. Breaktime is looking at a bigger boat.

Sweet Pea, Silver hammer, Pro Am can be added to the growing list.

Great for riggers. Would rather run Daiwa Sealines or Accudepth Plus on Dipsies.

Cut off the pig tails and check for frays. None found - keep using it.

I didn't know chupacabra had made it this far north. Fying grass carp will be close behind. Any lamprey marks.

What down speed and depth? Looks tastey.

I accidently made a 9 foot dipsy rod from a 9' 6" Heartland. Added a larger twilly tip and kept on fishing. Heratland are great rods.

Hypothetical - could you still net that fish legally right at that moment?

You're swiping with the net as the line breaks and you still manage to get it in the net. Would it have to be released, technically? Could it still be counted as a Derby or Pro Am fish?

This is a difficult question which may get you in trouble by interpretations of gray areas. You are required to catch fish by angling. The regs define angling as:

Angling means taking fish by hook and line. This includes bait and fly fishing, casting, trolling and the use of landing nets to complete the catch...

Once the fish drops off the line, you are no longer angling. A fish that drops and floats and is then netted, is taken by netting. The angling stops when the fish is disconnected from the hook. You are not likely to be cited by a warden unless he is in your boat or close enough to clearly see the hooks came out before you netted the fish but, observers in a touranment would need to certify the fish was legally caught by angling. In a non-observed tournatment, no one would know unless someone on your boat bragged about the valiant struggle. This happened in a tournament on Michigan last year. The team didn't enter what would have been the winning fish.

Cohos are the usual suspect when flies that come back in a ball.