Chautauqua Tony

Ray,

Don't really mean to come off so harsh but the thread is "deer observation and moon phase". I find it hard to believe that someone with your time in the woods can argue that there isn't a connection.

I'm not saying everything can be learned from a book either. Time in the woods is the best educational tool you can get, which you have. I'm sure you are a more accomplished hunter than I. I'm not saying Alsheimer knows everything either. But no one can tell me they know everything about whitetails there is to know. I believe i can become a better hunter by learning about behaviors, anatomy, and a more detailed look into the rut. More knowledge! I don't have the time to put into whitetails like Alsheimer. Reading books written by people like Charlie can greatly decrease a learning curve when someone really wants to know as much as they can about whitetails. It's also nice to be able to implement some strategies and theories out in the field.

I guess your sarcastic comments can come off a little belittling.

Good luck the rest of your season.

Well Ray, i guess you proved my point. You know everything. Why is it your not the one that's a field editor for deer and deer hunting Magazine? You obviously know more.

And by the way, the second estrous is not even close yet and it's the end of November!

And no, i don't believe every doe is ready to breed on the same exact day.

And lastly you kinda contradict yourself when you say that Odessa and Corning are 10 days apart in rut activity when they are only 22 miles apart but your buddy in Indiana agrees with the rut time in western NY???

So I'll put the Alsheimer theory here for you to read:

"At some point in autumn, the amount of daylight decreases enough to reset the whitetail's reproductive clock, thus placing the breeding season in November, December and January in the Northern Hemisphere. Once the doe's reproductive cycle is reset by a specific amount of daylight, her estrus cycle is ready to be cued by moonlight, which provides a bright light stimulus to the pineal gland several nights in a row each lunar month. Then, the rapid decrease in lunar brightness during the moon's third quarter triggers hormonal production by the pineal gland. Physiological changes prompted by the pineal gland culminate in ovulation and estrus.

A northern doe's estrogen level peaks around Nov. 1, as does a buck's sperm count. With both sexes poised to breed, it stands to reason a mechanism must be in place if the doe is to enter estrus and be bred under the darker phases of the moon which are the third through the first quarters. That mechanism in the North is the second full moon after the autumnal equinox, which we call the rutting moon."

According to this theory, this years prime breeding window is between nov 22nd and Dec. 6th. The second estrous would be 3-4 weeks from now. So maybe what you think is the prime rut is just hormone raged bucks (which is a great time to hunt anyways) and what you think is the second rut is actually the first. Only around 14% of doe are breed during the second estrous cycle. By this time most bucks are physically drained from the first rut and are in survival mode. It's hard for me to believe that you see great second rut activity every year for 40 years!!

...psst, i really don't care how many bent blades of grass and broken spider webs you look at in the woods, you don't know everything.

Normally i would eat up most words spoken by someone who has been hunting for 3 times longer than me like yourself but in this case your just a typical hard headed know it all who thinks he's an expert and has nothing else to learn. Get over yourself please. And you can take your smart ass comments and shove em'!!

Have a great day!

Ray,

I don't really agree with your theory. If you are defining the rut as Bucks at full testosterone levels, then yeah the rut is the same time every year. The rut is set on by the doe and to me the word rut is the time they breed and the activities that take place during a time period before. When a doe is ready to breed she doesn't run, which is usually what i see late October, doe running from bucks that are juiced out on testosterone. Not saying early ruts don't happen, but the rut's not the same every year.

And to put the record straight, I'm not saying that the Moon is the only factor to trigger the rut, but i think is a major one.

Maybe you should pick up a book that's been published from the past few years and learn what science and continued white tale studies have revealed.

Not really sure why ever thread you comment on has to be full of sarcastic comments like you're your word is the "end all be all". To me it shows closed minded ignorance. sorry.

My buddy shot a big 8 last night. Buck was just walking in open woods around 4 pm. Nice deer, probably around 170lbs. The neck was still as thick as could be and the tarsal glands were just black and leaking. According to Alshiemers theory this last moon was the rutting moon and the past week was the main breading period. To me, this buck was just more evidence that Charles is on the money with his moon theories. Im hearing of mid day deer activity from all my friends that hunt.

Since reading Charles Alshiemers books, i've become a big believer in his moon theories. I Think a lot of guys get fooled when the see a buck just peaked out on testosterone at the end of October running around like a fool.

The rut moon this year falls on November 21 which is extremely late in the year. The belief is that when the rut occurs late in the season (like this year) that the rut is spread out over a longer period of time and a trickle rut happens.

This is the correct time period for the rut this year according to moon phase. Every year there are always some early scrapes. As far as rubs, they can be found in August, so it's hard to put stock into the start of the rut based on fresh tree rubs.

As far as the comment about the doe going into heat again 28 days later, that happens every year. The second estrous is a much harder rut to hunt. By that time the big boys are pretty much nocturnal.

Nice Shot

Fished Devil's Hole again Yesterday. Boated a 20 lb female. Lost another in the AM. Afternoon was slow for us. I saw a lot of fish caught during the day. Not really sure what I'm doing wrong because everyone else was doing way better than us!

the lower river can be dangerous as the water drops when they are pulling water for the power plant reservoir, then when they stop pulling water the level rises real quick and you can get trapped out on a rock real easy.

fishing the devils hole in a boat can be very productive if you know what you are doing, when you drift down and reach the end of the power plant fishing platform you better have your main motor running. Do not drift down in front of the power plant, a whirlpool can open in a heartbeat and your boat starts spinning and you find yourself caught in a whirlpool. If you get caught in a whirlpool turn your motor to the left and push the throttle ahead slowly, you will ride the whirlpool for a few turns and then it will spit your boat out. if you leave the motor straight and hit the throttle the rear of your boat goes down and you can take on a lot of water, this can cause your boat to go straight up on end and flip over. that is what happened to a guy a few years ago, the Capt and 1 passenger drown and one passenger was rescued by another boat.

It is a great place to fish if you are knowledgeable and respect the river and its powerful current and whirlpools. Pay close attention to where you are and the water level. You can drift over rocks and not know they are there, a half hour later on the same drift you will hit the rocks because they started pulling water for the power plant and it is now shallower.

I like to use a baitcaster reel with 15 lb line to a 3 way swivel then about a 12 to 17 inch 8 lb test dropper to a 2.5 ounce pencil weight, using about a 7 to 9 foot leader also 15 lb test with either a quick fish lure or a small hook size 6, 8 or 10 with egg sacks or skein. Gold quickfdish with green scales or green spots seem to work really good. Egg sacks in orange, pink or green work at different times and conditions. When you feel the weight of a fish don't set the hook, just start reeling, keeping the line tight and the fish will be already hooked. More times than not if you set the hook you will loose the salmon.

I hope this helps someone to safely catch some salmon

GReat post. I have a lot of respect for that river. Last weekend was the first time i fished it and it was a little stressful. So many boats. It seemed like a lot of guys are use to the traffic. We meat a charter guide the day we arrived at the hardware store in Lewiston. He was telling us if we start talking water over the transom, just let it happen. Then he told us about a guide who flipped his boat trying to throttle it after he started taking in water. **** is crazy. Really, people should wear a pfd. if you go over board in that river your done.

It wasn't me on the rock. It was some guy on the canadian side. He walked out their around 6:15-6:30 and by 9 the water had rising and he was trapped. He was screaming and waving his 15' centerpin rod. He called the police, as well as several boaters. Th sirens went off and then a charter captain went up and helped him to shore. The captain did hit a few rocks on the way up, but didn't think he did any damage. I talked to one of the captain's clients at the launch and he said the guy was shaking pretty good.

I realize it wasn't you. I thought you meant someone got their boat stuck on a pile of rocks. That's the first time i've fished the Niagara and i knew before that the water rises at certain parts of the day. People are just stupid.

How in the hell do you get stuck on a rock??? Somehow i missed that. How long was the guy stuck for? All i know is that there is no room for error up there. Some point in the afternoon, i tried starting my motor after a drift and it didn't fire. It was pretty nerve racking for about 30 seconds (which felt like 5 minutes). I would hate to be dead in the water there.

Fishing Report

Your Name / Boat Name:

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TRIP OVERVIEW

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Date(s):Sept. 25 & 26

Time on Water:2 hrs & 7 hrs

Weather/Temp:

W

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FISHING RESULTS

===============

Total Hits: 1

Total Boated:0

Species Breakdown:KIngs

Hot Lure: Eggs

====================

SUMMARY & FURTHER DETAILS

====================

Fished Devils Hole this weekend. This was my first time fishing the Niagara for salmon. It's nuts how packed that small drift gets. Saturday night we were able to fish the drift for about 2 hours. There was maybe 5 other boats there when we arrived. Had one King on within the first hour and lost it within a minute as my line got taken into my trolling motor. We saw about 4 other fish caught that evening and fish jumping everywhere the entire time. We left feeling real confident for Sunday.

We arrived Sunday around 7 am to a circus of boats. Unbelievable the traffic. Well the confidence slowly faded away as we fished from 7 till 3 with a hour break in between. Not one bite all day for the 3 of us. All day I only saw a few fish netted. It didn't seem nowhere near as good as the night before.

I know it's still a little early so i may try and come up for a day right before archery starts. If i do it will definitely be a week day with hopes of less traffic!

Sounds like I'm S.O.L for Saturday then. Any Suggestions for the day time???

Gill-t, I was planning on doing some night fishing at olcott Saturday night. Do people just fish anywhere in the Harbor?

S Mick, Thanks for the input! Do you think drifting with smelt would work? Should i stick with eggs sacks or skein? I think Saturday i'm going to try the Niagara River for the day and give the lake a shot on Sunday.

.FRIDAY...SOUTHWEST WINDS INCREASING TO 20 TO 25 KNOTS. A CHANCE

OF SHOWERS IN THE AFTERNOON. WAVES 2 TO 4 FEET.

.FRIDAY NIGHT...SOUTHWEST WINDS 15 TO 25 KNOTS BECOMING WEST TO

30 KNOTS. SHOWERS LIKELY WITH A CHANCE OF THUNDERSTORMS. WAVES

BUILDING TO 6 TO 9 FEET.

.SATURDAY...WEST WINDS TO 30 KNOTS. WAVES 6 TO 9 FEET.

.SUNDAY...NORTHEAST WINDS 5 TO 10 KNOTS BECOMING EAST. WAVES 1 TO

3 FEET.

So the forecast changes often, huh? Makes it hard to plan a trip!! I'm coming up Saturday and Sunday. My boat is a 175 Sea Nymph, not very big. I hope i can get out Saturday afternoon!

i thought Saturday was gonna drop down to 1-3

How about I take my lowly spinning rod with one of those unsightly pieces of painted metal on it and clear out that pool for you so you don't get your artfully and masterfully hand tied, perfectly presented flys, roughed up by those pesky trout.

Shouldn't take me long and I'll be out of your way.

Don't sweat the report thing you'll get the hang of it. After some practice you will be able to present that report as skillfully as your fly so even us unsportsmen like unskilled spoon draggers can interpret it.

Thanks for your service and welcome to the site.

Glen

thats pretty funny!

Thanks, really appreciate it!!!

Good to hear that people are getting some fish. I plan on fishing Saturday afternoon and evening. Also first thing Sunday morning. Where abouts on the Niagara River? What depths are people casting at night? Sorry this is my first year and the first fall fishing salmon and trout. Thanks for the help!

Has anyone been out in the wilson/olcott area? The Bar/ Niagara river? Wanted to make a trip next weekend and hoping it wont be a waste of time. Any reports would be appreciated!

This was my first year of fishing Lake Ontario. I made about 6 trips and had a great summer of fishing. I would like to get up there next weekend but I am unsure of lure presentation and location of fish this time of year.

You guys here on LOU were a great help in the spring/summer and I'm hoping you can help me out again here in the fall. So here are my question:

Lures? Should i still use spin docs/flies? Switch to cleos and eggs?

Are there fish still along the shore line? What depths?

Are you guys flat lining your lures or still dropping them down to certain depths?

And lastly, should i fish the niagara river or stick out in the lake around olcott/ wilson?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks Guys.

zach,

You get a taste of those kings and you might switch from Musky to Salmon. A Musky fight doesn't come close to scraping with a 25lb king. I started fishing lake Ontario this year in the spring and haven't been on Chautauqua since!!

It's been about a month and a half since i've been able to get up to lake ontario. I'm hoping to make a trip within the next week. How has the fishing been? I dont really see much in the reports for those areas. Any info would be greatly appreciated!! thanks

So you guys are sending you flasher/flies 8-10 ft back behind the boat before hooking it to the ball, and thats it? I never would have tried it that close. Hoping to get up there in a couple weeks. Guess i may make some changes.

Wow. I've been running my Flasher/flies 30-35 feet behind the down rigger ball. I'll have to change that up next time i go.

What is the E Chip? Also wondering what the difference is between an atomik shredded fly and a normal atomik fly?