Capt Vince Pierleoni

5 hours ago, Smat64 said:

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World class buck. Congrats! NY is quietly producing studs regularly now. Congrats to all the successful bowhunters on this thread.

1 hour ago, dvdegeorge said:

I use my hand and pour no problem for me but I'm a cool customer 

I use those for my smokeless charges. When you only have 43 grains you have to be even cooler!

Great Job! Great memories!

1 minute ago, Capt Vince Pierleoni said:

Its a valuable tool. With my brother being wheelchair bound this blind has been quite an asset. I would say dont skip staking it down if any wind is present as it catches wind but he has had deer 5 to 7 yds away feeding. We had to laugh as the first deer he took with it using a firearm he shot thru it! The scope peered over the top but not the barrel. Took the deer cleanly as its corrugated board. I saw enough to buy one for myself but have only actually used it once. It must me good as a trespasser walked to within 3 yds of me during late muzz last year before I startled him. "My bad" was the best he could come up with after walking through the middle of the greenfield I was sitting on.

I think it is as good as whats in front of it. Corn-great, snow- great, a couple of well placed branches in front of it make a lot of difference. Of course it's only for one side of you so planning for that is the most critical. It's worth the money IMO.     

I also modified with a utility knife the height so he can shoot his compound over it. Depending on what you use for a chair/stool you may not need to do this.

4 hours ago, dvdegeorge said:

BTW I'm brutally honest if it's a piece of crap and a gimmick I'll let you know

Its a valuable tool. With my brother being wheelchair bound this blind has been quite an asset. I would say dont skip staking it down if any wind is present as it catches wind but he has had deer 5 to 7 yds away feeding. We had to laugh as the first deer he took with it using a firearm he shot thru it! The scope peered over the top but not the barrel. Took the deer cleanly as its corrugated board. I saw enough to buy one for myself but have only actually used it once. It must me good as a trespasser walked to within 3 yds of me during late muzz last year before I startled him. "My bad" was the best he could come up with after walking through the middle of the greenfield I was sitting on.

I think it is as good as whats in front of it. Corn-great, snow- great, a couple of well placed branches in front of it make a lot of difference. Of course it's only for one side of you so planning for that is the most critical. It's worth the money IMO.     

15 hours ago, muskiedreams said:

After reading through the all the things discussed in this topic, I would like to bring up a thing or two that I don't recall being discussed here. Also I want to say that I am an old guy that has lived and fished in New York since I was a kid. I became interested in fishing for trout and salmon in Lake Ontario near the beginning. I did not have access to boat fishing and I was excited about how the fishing in Lake Ontario was coming back from the dismal condition of the lake in the 60s and 70s. I actually entered the spring ESLO derby in 1982 and fished it from shore. I only caught a small brown but after that I became hooked on trout and salmon fishing in Lake Ontario.

From the mid 80s til the mid 90s I spent a lot of time fishing from the piers in the spring and in the fall. By the mid 90s there were changes happening to the lake and it's tributaries which I think contributed greatly to changes in near shore trout and salmon fishing.

1) Zebra Mussels and later, other mussels: It is in my opinion that this has influenced the near shore trout and salmon fishing the most and has caused other cascading changes. As they cleared up the water, there was progressively fewer trout and salmon in the shallow water around the piers in the spring and the fall. They disrupted the food chain throughout the lake. Since trout and salmon prefer not to be exposed to bright light, they did not spend as much time around the piers unless the water was stained by runoff. It didn't affect the trout in the spring as much because of spring run off and cool water temps. However I do believe that gradually, the length of time that the salmon spent staging close in front of the tributaries and around the piers gradually shortened as the mussels caused the water to gradually become clearer. There used to be several weeks of consistently good salmon fishing off the piers and as the lake cleared, it became more sporadic.

2) The continued reduction of phosphors and other pollutants into the tributaries and the lake. This is good in a lot of ways but also added to clearing the water.

3) Effects of the clearer water on seasonal nearshore water temperatures. I think the clearer water, especially nearshore in the fall allows the sun to keep the water temps from falling as fast in the fall. That is if the lake doesn't turn over. The darker color of clear water as opposed to green algae laden water can absorb more heat from the sun. I think this can be even more of a factor in years with a warm September and low rainfall.

4) Changes in baitfish patterns as a result of the above changes.

 

Please note that these are just my thoughts based on observations over the years. The lake as a whole is like a living entity that is constantly changing. All the changes can be considered good in some ways and bad in other ways. I do miss the pier fishing for trout and salmon. To me, it is much more exciting than trolling for them when you hook into one from a pier.

These are all good observations and yes can have an affect in a case by case basis. I agree that the mid 90s was the peak of the mussels influence but for several years now their impact on water color has been drastically mitigated. The high water, lake Erie inflow, and the normal adjustment downward(after the initial explosion) in numbers of nearshore mussels have all had an impact on the return to fertile, colored water to nearshore waters. We routinely see Salmon set up inside on the southshore, and it is more often the norm on the northshore. The color is there and so are the alewives. Your point that catching returning Salmon in shallow water and off piers in clear water is extremely difficult is true. However, when they are imprinted and actually exist to return they sulk to the bottom and move as deep as needed for their needs/security. When this clear water is present the night casters do very well if the fish are there to catch. Also several locations at Canadian ports have had normal staging behavior especially this season making the original posters concerns very valid. The Canadian Salmon are not from the Altmar hatchery, and some of the locations discussed like the Genesee, the Oak, Olcott, and the Niagara(being Lake Erie water) do not suffer from clear water conditions in most cases, especially this late Summer/Fall. The returning numbers just are not very large.          

9 hours ago, Lucky13 said:

I have 30 years of experience working in Environmental Science, have worked with such illustrious scientists as Drs Ed Mills and Lars Rudstam from the Cornell Biological Research Facility on Oneida Lake, Fred Luckey from Region II USEPA, Dave MacNeill and his colleagues at Sea Grant, and Dr. Brian Weidel of the USGS (some of you deal with his "anonymous" self on here, and there are only a few self promoting posters here who use their own name, so I am hardly alone in having an " alias") and many of the DEC Regions 6, 7 and 8 staffs, among many others.  I serve with you on the Great Lake Fishery Commission citizen advisory panel.  As to instigating, I have not gone to the major outdoor print outlet in  New York and publicly lambasted the mangers of this fishery based on my Television watching experience.  How many screenshots do you have to take to get one big bait pod, Vince? 

 

It s an interesting  hypothesis that raising fish in one of the more unique water sources in New York, a limestone spring with a very unique chemistry, would imprint fish to rivers 80 to 100 miles away that have no resemblance to Spring Brook in their water chemistry. Even comparing the flow in Spring Brook to the total flow in the Genesee River, it is amazing that that Spring Brook signature does not get "swamped" with all the other chemical influences for a big old muddy flow like the Genny. Perhaps you can put some kind of science together to prove your contentions, something a little more rigorous than " back in the day it was shoulder to shoulder (may I remind you that all aspects of the fishery are down somewhat, people seem to get bored with fishing after a few years) and a couple of cherry picked graph shots.

 

BTW, all your noise about how much bait there is and there aren't enough salmon  could be viewed as " the sky is falling" talk by out of staters, so you may be shooting yourself in the foot down the road regardless of whether the cuts are noticeable, and the bait bounces back,  or not.

Lucky with all due respect your background does not qualify you to speak as an authority on the current state of the Pacific Salmon fishery. You are doing quite a disservice to anyone that reads your many personal attacks on this board, by not admitting that you are not a Pacific Salmon advocate--certainly not in the open lake. As usual, you have taken liberties as to the information you spew on here--much of it is false. I am going to address your targeted misinformation below in the order you wrote it above. Don't expect lots of back and forth because frankly I think you enjoy it and I'm not playing.

1) I have enjoyed a good relationship with Dave MacNeill through the years, he did a nice job for Sea Grant. I consider Dr. Brian Weidel a friend, and we communicate much more often than you know. He has a set of parameters and guidelines that he must follow to formulate his conclusions. I think we learn a lot from each other and even when we strongly disagree it does not get mean spirited. He can only provide his findings--how it is used is out of his control.   My conclusions and my positions are based on observations/interactions with the Lake Ontario Salmon fishery for over 40 years--35 of those years nearly every day for 7 months of the year. 

2) I'm sorry but as long as you make personal attacks and biased statements from a keyboard using an alias you have zero credibility with me. As for your accusation that anyone that doesn't hide behind a keyboard alias is "self promoting", that is simply nonsense. I was long established prior to the existence of this board. For me, it's about standing behind what you say and believe. To each his own, and I certainly understand why some have "user names". However it's widely accepted that making personal attacks from a position of anonymity is bush league, and often referred to as a "keyboard warrior". 

3) Yes I serve on that Great Lakes fishery commission citizen advisory panel(if you are who I think you are your attendance on the calls has been less than stellar) but also the Niagara county fishery advisory board, and served on every single panel and board that I have been asked to sit on for the last 3 decades. I have also volunteered for every single DEC diet study and clipping study ever conducted for Lake Ontario-- just ask any of the managers. How many have you participated in? How many hours a season do YOU spend on the open lake?

4)Your accusation that I "went to a major outdoor print outlet" to plead my case is yet another falsehood you spew. I was contacted by the editor out of the blue asking my take on the issue. Certainly you aren't suggesting censorship, are you?

5) My "screen shots" have nothing to do with you, and certainly you cannot relate through your own recent experiences so simply MYOB. Your fascination with them is creepy. If you must know, the hour by hour observation of "the screens" is only part of the equation. The actual behavior of the target species, along with stomach content analysis is much more telling. For me, "size at age" is fascinating but I won't get into that as it is WAAY beyond your level of understanding with such little "hands on" experience.

6) I'm not the least bit bored, I find every aspect of the daily challenges worthwhile. As to your theory that anglers are leaving the fishery due to boredom--I can assure you if they felt a decent chance to catch a returning Salmon the piers would be chalk full again.

7) Once again you take the liberty to accuse me of "cherry picking" "graph" shots. Sorry but graphs were pretty much obsolete by 1990. My screen shots are actually quite random. Contrary to what you may believe, I would never want any management decisions that would harm the fishery. I find it sad that the Pacific Salmon isn't recognized more for what it actually is, the savior of the Lake Ontario ecosystem. Until the alewives were somewhat controlled none of the fantastic improvements that we have seen over the years would have taken place. This can quickly reverse, and the health of the alewife population put in danger if they become under predated again--and I have seen this on Lake Ontario more than once.

8)To call my observations "noise" is once again a cowardly cheap shot. I think my observations are certainly valuable, and many of the biologists and managers that you enjoy name dropping have told me so. Don't worry about me and my clients/guests. I have survived the first unnecessary Pacific stocking cut, and surely you aren't suggesting that I misrepresent what I can offer the tourist anglers, are you? We have been fortunate to have some bumper crops of naturally hatched Chinook Salmon that have masked the inequities in the stocking portion of the program. When I sit on the various boards/panels I feel a responsibility to look out for the small boater and the shore anglers--not just big boat anglers. Our area and approx half of the southshore of Lake Ontario has had some issues as the wild component does not contribute and 2 to 3 months of the season the small boat angler and area businesses are drastically impacted--not that you care one iota.                 

I actually thought you would keep your nose out of stuff you know nothing about,”lucky anonymous 13”. I guess I was wrong! LOL. The last year Bill Abraham was employed by the NYSDEC all the central and west plants were coming from the Caledonia hatchery. On the last day of September- ANY of those years- there was 30-40 boats working Devils hole in the Niagara. Regardless of the temperature, which even back then could still be in the high 60s the fish would be packed into not only the Niagara, but 18 mile, Oak Orchard, and the Genesee. The piers at the mouth of these rivers would be shoulder to shoulder. Today, there was 3 anglers on each pier at Olcott, and no fish hooked as of 8am. Today in Devils hole in prime time for the run, there was 6 boats trying and most left after a couple hours to try for Bass. The Niagara temp is down to 67 degrees and Olcott harbor is down to 64 degrees. Stick to what you know “Lucky”. What is that btw, instigating?


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The Genesee has only dropped below 66°F last night and has only been below 67° three other nights.  Maybe these fish only respond to temperature when they are offshore?  Bill Abraham, retired Region 8 Fisheries Manager, always said the west end runs late because of warm source waters, what he called the thermal barriers, no deep shady woods like on the Tug Hill to cool the rivers down and keep them colder.  But what would he know, he was just a university trained fisheries scientist! 
 
While there are fair numbers of fish in the Salmon River and the Oz,  they are not yet experiencing the massive runs they have seen in past years, so there may be another big push to come.  Or if Vince is right about the massive schools of bait he finds every time he turns on the graph, maybe the salmon all died of gluttony! 

On 9/28/2019 at 9:30 PM, brucehookedup said:

Where in the hell are the fish we raised and the state state put in. This is one of the top 5 crappy returns i have ever seen since fishing the big pond from 1977. I am waiting to hear the B. S.

It's not just the Genny, Bruce. Same for all returns in region 9. This was "pre cut" returns to top it off.  Oh well, lots of alewives out here from 25--500 fow. 

Coho are a not targeted in most of the season.  They are around in spring and disappear until late August.  I have caught more Atlantics than coho this season. 

Weidel reminded me YOY alewife and smelt may be on graph as 1.5-2” fish. What size alewives are stomach contents showing when you are cleaning fish Vince?

My eyes were opened this weekend to the insane amount of bait that has appeared. I am concerned about the lack of predators around it. 

On 8/21/2019 at 10:33 AM, RUNNIN REBEL said:

King Hunter you are spot on here.  While the Canadian side is Documenting, studying, and has clipping King project (Port Credit-Ganaraska experiment study) ECT ECT ECT...…..  The USA side continues to discuss and hypothesize about predator/prey ratios and what is  happening  to our king sizes here and what actions to take or not take. With technically just over half the kings in Lake O  naturally produced,  The Canadian side is the Unofficial production grounds. The Naturals are protected in Canada every season with hefty fines and a culture of everyday sportsman and woman watching over this. Also not much if any bickering between Stream guy's and lake guy's. They are a united front, please google ONTARIO FEDERATION OF ANGLERS & HUNTERS. Over 100,000 members strong !!! Strength and $$$ & VOTES are in numbers.

 With over 700+ stream-rivers-creeks on Lake O,  over 400 are in Canada.      " Most of the north shore rivers and creeks get a run of salmon; some of them produce naturals"  AND   "They run up all the tributaries without any dams, right into the headwaters which are always cold, clean and flowing"   these  King Hunter statements sum it up.     

 Now  YES there is natural production on the US side but with a more of a "pay to play" combo free for all style on our waters .On the USA side here are just some example of the OVERWELMING majority of potential waters and their potential limitations to producing major Natural contributions consistently,  other than the proven Salmon river  Niagara river= Niagara Falls...  18 mile = Burt dam..     Oak Orchard = Dam...    Genesee River= Falls..   ECT  Heck most years we can only pen rear our salmon for just a few weeks because of the non conducive high water temps at some pen sites in early spring time.

 

More meetings/conference call discussions are taking place to come up with a plan/direction of this fishery.

I would like to start another topic and get everyones feed back on what we should recommend on King #'s for 2020 stocking numbers

1   stay status quo 1 more year (wait and see current data)

2   get some/certain % back

3   Restore most if not all of the -%20  & -%20

 

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

With the current relentless intelligent pressure on the Chinooks,(and Jerry you know I'm right) no cuts were ever necessary. Anglers are doing a fine job. In recent years we finally achieved a fishery somewhat in balance, the alewives were massively in surplus for decades. Alewives were routinely in jeopardy of die offs from cold winters or from spawning stress. The over populated alewives were skinny, and provided less nutrition. In recent years the engine has been more ideal with a bigger Salmon fishery, healthier individual alewives with better food value, and better natural reproduction of Perch, Walleye, and even Lake Trout(Alewives prey heavily on all of these species eggs/hatches). We have already seen in Lake Michigan that any miscalculations in predator/prey ratios are completely reversible--UNLESS you are pouring tons of long lived Lake Trout into the system. 

The real danger is allowing the alewife population to become top heavy(too few predators). They become sickly and prone to die offs. This is the real threat. My 2 cents is return to the original stocking number--as many ports do not realize Summer/Fall returns of the wonderful Naturalized Chinook Salmon. Most of what anglers enjoyed this year was a very strong natural class of 3 yr olds, and right now some areas are experiencing much denser returns. The fish at all ages look outstanding.

Fantastic Danny. No one does a better job of capturing the Lake O Salmon fishing experience than you. Congrats again to you guys. 

4 hours ago, NymphO said:

https://buffalonews.com/2019/08/21/buffalo-outdoors-column-reelin-for-a-cure-tournament-olcott-wilson-fishing-news-opinion-2019/?utm_campaign=category&utm_source=home&utm_medium=

Great write up !

Very well done article!  Thanks for sharing. 

4 hours ago, TOP SECRET said:

Great tournament Vince and Stephanie and thanks for having us!  I had to duck out of the after tourney festivities to repair our boat, so I'm sorry I didn't get to talk to everyone more!  After a crummy day, winning a raffle prize was a real spirit lifter!  Theresa still won't let me mount it in the boat though 

 

I must say, I liked the format... 6 fish, no more than 3 trout, no more than 1 laker!  

Thanks so much for putting a crew together and making the trip from Sodus--very generous on your part. Donations are still coming in but Steph and her committee will soon announce how much was raised for "Hope for two". Congrats on winning one of the top raffle prizes!

Congrats to "Oh Baby" and Capt Matt LeClair on winning the Challenge Cup for 2019. If Oswego Pro Am doesn't become reestablished some other events are being considered to become the 3rd leg. Good fishing to all the remainder of 2019.  

46 minutes ago, NymphO said:

Capt Vince, without sounding like a brown noser, that really means a lot coming from a seasoned pro like yourself. It was my pleasure to be involved ! I look at our box, and then look at what we were able to raise and I feel alot better about the day!


As far as being hardcore in a tinny.... You are not wrong.

I started trolling the lake out of a car topper with an air cooled outboard but my first "real" boat was a Sea Nymph. I "get" you aluminum warriors.

A little recap from the Tournament side of the event:  1st) "The reel alewives of WNY"  174.89 pts  boat volunteer Capt. Bob Cinelli

                                                                                     2nd) "The reel warriors"  170.88 pts  boat volunteer Capt. Pete Alex

                                                                                     3rd) "Reel Cranky"  166.57 pts  boat volunteer Capt Mike Johannes

                                                                                     4th) "Fish N Chics"  164.54 pts boat volunteer Capt Vince Pierleoni

                                                                                     5th) :"Nauti Nurses" 163.12 pts  boat volunteer Capt Tony Sambunjak

                                                                                     6th) "Skippers for Nippers" 158 pts  boat volunteer Capt Marshall Stearns

                                                                                     7th) "Reel Pole Dancers"  148.79 pts boat volunteer Jeff Smith

                                                                                     8th) "Legacy Ladies" 139.41 pts boat volunteer Capt Rob Wescott

Special thanks to the rest of the boat volunteers in no certain order: Capt Marc Bottone, David Peterson, Capt Alan Sauerland, Capt matt Yablonsky, Capt Matt Dunn, Chad Kahler, Matt Niezgoda, Tom Cosnyka, Bill Crouse, Brian Cook, Capt Frank Godina, Jeremy Goodison, Capt. Paul Nau, Nick Allers, Mike Schooley, Capt. Mark Lewandowski, Matt LeClair, Capt. Tom Pearse, John Bracken, Capt Carl Martin, Mark Keller, Capt Lou Tepas, Andrew Dissette, Nate Stephenson, Dustin Peterson, Jon Forder, Capt.Mike Diel, Capt Matt Bedient

Big shout out to sponsors/donors that I have knowledge of:  (I know the committee kicked butt and gathered lots more stuff for the basket raffle.     Again, in no certain order:  Keller technologies, L.O.T.S.A., Beamin' Sounds Entertainment, St Johns Trophies, Maxwell Station/Bob Stedman, Tents Unlimited/Marty Brummer, Bear Creek Landscaping/Jeff Zimmer, Lions Club, A-TOM-MIK, Dreamweaver, Gambler rigs, Finn Tackle Co., Team Tough Duty, Linda and Gerrit Moot, Renee and Jim Boyd, Team Chasing Chrome, Team Dutchie's Angels, Andrew Dissette,  Fish USA, and Glosser Custom Rods. I apologize if I missed anything or anyone. The participants themselves from all teams dumped lots of money into all the raffles.

Anyone interested in a complete standing list and more info please go to Reelin' for a cure on facebook.              

2 hours ago, Gill-T said:

Great event that is growing each year.  Thank you Steph, Vince and all those who volunteered their time to make the event the success it is.  I would also like to thank NOAA wave forecasters.......for having a sense of humor. 

 

See ya all next year!

Thanks Chad for your continued support/participation. The visitors will never believe that the wind blows anywhere but from the East/NE in Niagara county waters.

9 minutes ago, NymphO said:

Noaa was only off by 3ish ft...

Glad after 3-4 days to finally have a break from the Nor' easters today. It was getting old in 11 tons of fiberglass, and you guys in the tinnys are pure hardcore. Andrew you and your team were a great addition to the Ladies tourney and your fundraising did not go unnoticed.   

57 minutes ago, Inthebox30lbs said:

Vince great response and we all know you certainly know your stuff.  I will disagree with you about numbers of the catch.  The Wisconsin side of the lake has not cut the stocking as much as Michigan has.  They have actually cut the browns which made no sense and pissed a ton off.  Catches of kings the last few years from Chicago to Big bay de noc in Northern Michigan from spring to fall have been epic.  Some charters have averaged 20-30 kings a trip Since May this year and the kicker was the abundance of bigger 25-30lb kings the last few years.  Not to mention the biggest cohos in recent memory and the continued world class steelhead fishery that takes place in NW Lake Michigan in the summer.  Alewife Numbers have risen.  The Michigan side of the lake is a totally different ball game.  It almost reminds me of some of Lake Ontario’s lull periods of years past on the eastern end when you captains have consistent fishing on the western end.  The Michigan side goes from no fish to all of a sudden tons of fish staging before they enter the rivers.  They always have there days late summer early fall.    The pen rearing has played a significant role in Lake Ontario as natural reproduction has.  From a numbers perspective I would hesitate to say that Lake Ontario trout and salmon catch is far superior than lake Michigan’s.  Overall kings, coho’s steelhead fishing is pretty solid out of a lot of Michigan’s ports.  There is no indication that this is going to change i the near future.

Trust me, I pull for Pacific Salmon abundance in all the Great Lakes. I've been listening to the "doom and gloom" predictions for 30 years. Meanwhile there are still Kings and Cohos present in all the Lakes. There's a big derby going on in Owen Sound right now==a place we were told would be dead and buried years ago. Great Lakes strain Kings are amazing, they are becoming more adaptive each passing year. The wild fish are special but they don't return to where all the boating access is, and some years there isn't enough wilds to support the angling pressure. Anglers crop the surplus, alewives bounce back. As an NYSDEC biologist once said, "alewives will be in Lake Ontario long after we are gone".

I had a client take a group out on a charter today on the west side of Lake Michigan. Despite it being prime time and a pre dawn start they landed 1 Laker, 1 Coho, and 1 King for a party of 5. Yes, Wisconsin has thrown the finger up to the Lake Trout agenda but reports like this have been very common once all the fish left the southern end in Spring. That Lake is under planted now Salmon wise, yet the Lake Trout go in by the millions.  

I'm hdg to Capts meeting now but I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to all the volunteer boat owners, generous individuals, and sponsors. When I have more time I will name names but WOW--35 teams!  Steph is getting pulled in 11 different directions right now but she is overwhelmed with appreciation for the outpouring. Looking forward to seeing old friends and new.   

I will agree with Gill T, the top 50 is where those tiny ones are you are interested in. He and I were together in January and found skippers up there. It was our belief the larger alewives went deep already- taking most of the larger Salmon with them. We did not sacrifice any of them in the name of science but the bait that was up in the 41 degree water looked to be yoy alewife or emerald shiners. The fleas are very important to the age fish you are talking about.


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