Kingfisher06

What conservative concept am I holding near and dear that has been rebuked? A page ago you were trying to quote the Bible, nothing wrong with that, but then appear to side with the statist ideologues on this topic, which is counter intuitive to me. You see, statists, you know, Leninists, and Maoists take away religious freedom, free speech, dam near all Constitutional freedoms as a matter of business. They are not your friend. The change is an unnecessary law, one in a long line towards the dismantling of our inalienable rights as Americans.

When I was those kids age I didn't understand the concepts or trappings of the ideas presented here. I don't think many of the elder man posting to this thread do either. That's the main topic. For goodness sake, just look above; "The earth is flat" and "Perch for sale 25 bucks a pound". Maybe these kids learn to be flippant, vapid internet trolls who just accuse their debater of being on drugs, but my guess is that's it with flyrod at the helm.

Decent insult, actually, quite played out...what else you got?

So tired of this liberal strategy, Sk8man. This approach that completely dismisses lawful aggression as bad and therefore the opinions are not valid. An aggressive type of speech born out of the frustration of having to deal with emotional knee-jerk reactions like the one proposed by the original poster. It is an aggression born out of the individual having to deal with the collective, feel-good mob imposing its feelings all over the place. A tried and true tactic is the propaganda of saving some form of nature in order to control a behavior that hurts their collective feelings. Is this sort of passive aggression necessary Sk8man? If it is, than it is certainly necessary to demean and belittle these subjugators in debate. This teacher has rounded up a bunch of students, handed them sticks and instructed them to poke a sleeping bear. God forbid the bear acts like a bear. This is a discussion, not born out of your liberal fantasy that all viewpoints are true and equal, but that one side is right and the other is flat out wrong. You can pretend to respect differing viewpoints and the right to express those opinions, but you are supporting a statist ideology, which makes you a hypocrite. This is where politically correct speech comes from. A suppression of lawful, protected speech that is persuasive and powerful and a threat to the liberal strategy. The state is the biggest bully there is, but through the diversion or shield of passive aggression it seems like a facilitator of good. It seems to protect the weak, but it’s coddling only makes the weak dependent, defenseless and feeble, which only gives the state more power. All of this feel good talk about, oh it’s not just one problem, it’s a slew of problems, and everyone has a valid point of view and we all need to hold hands around Seneca Lake and sing the perch back to health weakens the entire debate. All it does is bring it back to the idea that here is a small slot of folks we can control, so let’s do that, while respecting everyone, but them, because they are just greedy, polluting, thiefs who steal our state given resources. I swear, if it weren’t for the double standard, liberals would have no standards at all.

I never attempted to pay taxes. I don't know tax law well enough to say it was illegal or legal. It probably has to do with a threshold of earnings. The idea of keeping track of bait, gas, vehicle repairs, shanty repairs, propane, fishing equipment etc for a write off really hurts my head to think about. I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned a ~10k salary for a federal tax reporting threshold, don't know state. The state gets way more than its share as it is with perch: sales tax, gas tax, license tax. I can't speak for the buyer who then distribute, but I assume they are taxed at that level of earning. Could be wrong, folks buying and selling perch aren't hardly getting by. It's like a guy doing charters, only does two charters all year, doubt he has to report at the level of earning. This is all a guess though.

For sure! You guys have taken this way too far.

Decent synopsis

Flies? Who's buying flies? I'll sell anything.

Yes, I've already received four paypal payments from Seneca Lake perch guys for lobbying on their behalf. This is going to affect my tax return next year. Hey, Seneca Lake perch pullers, no more checks over $600! My perchdreams are coming true!

The topic is a statewide ban being lobbied by school children by way of a teacher's agenda. My style of speech offends you? I can't ask for people to go beyond emotional and hypocritical arguments? There is a collective, feel good mob mentality versus my individual aggressive speech. One begets the other.

Oh my, of course controversial issues ought to be on the table. I obviously enjoy critical thinking and loved debates in high school. I believe a mock demonstration is more than applicable. To sidetrack answering the question I posed to you in two examples, you now claim the teacher is no longer in control of his curriculum; the students are, but a few posts ago claim there is a long chain of command on what a teacher utilizes as curriculum. So is what you're saying as a retired teacher is: dodge dodge dodge accountability at all costs? Is this the modus operandi for teachers? Seems so.

I think I called s8man a bullcrap artist once, sorry sk8man. Otherwise claiming someone is dangerous, unethical is fair. If there are other name calling I apologize. You don't understand how insulted I am by the methods and means of this proposition, its frustrating.

You really don't understand...who is asking for the abolishment of game laws?

Just answer the question instead of taking it personally, do you support those other examples I presented or not? Edit: By the way I did not claim you lacked deep ethical responsibility, unless you answered hypocritically. Cart before horse.

Most all the kids hunt or fish, that’s great. Have most or all of them sold a few pails of fish prior to your class? Have they experienced both sides on their own outside of school, with their family? I guess not. Virtually no regulations; sounds like heaven to my ears, but to most on here familiar with the process, it’s quite evident there are and they are sufficient. Do you really believe the sellers don’t feel an investment in the resources? That’s a misconception. Like Gambler mentioned earlier in the thread, the gossip on the internet has probably influenced fishing pressure more than any other avenue in the last decade. Maybe your kids should seek to ban Lakeontariounited, with no true causal proof. I know I never gossiped about where I was making a buck, and the fellas I knew on the bay sure as hell were not advertising their whereabouts or posting reports that would lead to further competition/pressure. So Capitalism, in your mind, therefor what you are teaching the kids is: Utilizing the State to outlaw competition in the market place. Really? That is so wrong and dangerous and exactly what has led to the unchecked greed and unfairness we see in today’s economy. You are a dangerous man. Why not let restaurants decide if they want farm-raised or local caught and let the buying power of the customers decide? I know why, but wait a second. Is it illegal for perch to end up somewhere other than a local restaurant, really? I’d think selling locally first, saving on shipment costs would be beneficial, but then shipping when the market was saturated would be quite feasible to a business model. I think it is a great understanding to have; how govt works. But you sir, you have a dangerous mind. In the “Seneca Perch†thread on page seven you say: The one thing that is difficult to control is invasives, so when we see invasives we need to make adjustments to those things we have control over…eliminate the selling and request more enforcement to put the greedy ones on notice are some of the things that can be controlled.†You are incapable of doing the scientific work and rigor to find the causal agent to find a solution so you go after a perceived boogeyman. Why is it hard to regulate the introduction of invasives throught the Seaway? Because big business has big bucks, big lobbies and the State has open pockets. It called Crony Capitalism, the style you teach! I propose the causal agent is the unchecked greed that pays off big govt to look the other way. How does govt get so big? Because of indoctrinators like you. Teaching kids to turn to the govt to intervene and eliminate healthy competition. Teaching kids to control folks, without causal proof of doing any harm, to pretend to do good for the “collective†through the long arm of the state through increased enforcement and degradation of opportunity. You are a protected teacher, probably tenured and immune to competition, you have a vested interest in non-competition through state means. Doesn’t mean you have to teach it too.

Not just Kevin, anybody can chime in, would you support a teacher, who's hobby is organizing PETA demonstrations, rally her children to outlaw the Charter and Guide industry? Either side of a debate can be argued emotionally, and manipulatively especially by a teacher figure to students!!!!! What say you? And I don't care about the wishy-washy side notes Kevin presents about duck ID, or hunter safety instructors, or whatever else outside his capacity as a NYS taxpayer funded HS teacher. As a biology teacher, its a science based discipline, with very little room at the highschool level for an agenda to slip through. What could have been questioned as an agenda in a biology classroom at the H.S., I'm sure I don't want to know, good grief.

So Kevin, You'd have absolutely no issue with a bunch of students organized by one teacher to further the coverage of the Safe Act for example to include all semi-autos. A ban, not registration, where a forced buy-back would be initiated. All semi-autos, your Ruger 10/22, all hand guns, etc. A bunch of students who before this class never owned a firearm, or had ever really thought or been taught about the whole issue at hand? A whole group of students at the forefront of a petition to sway the public officials in the favor of the teachers agenda is ok with you? If that is ok, then I can sit back and understand you've taken a position, if it is not, then you are a hypocrite who is swayed by your individual interests and lack any type of deep ethical responsibility.

Kevin, the netters of past are a different story than the hook n line folks. I agree, for example, the market hunters in the Chesapeake with their punt guns put a hurting on waterfowl numbers. But, I see no difference between guides bringing out clients everyday of the season on the Chesapeake and the hook n line folks around here. As a retired teacher I am surprised you find no ethical issue with this rallying of students to propose a statewide ban on hook n line selling of fish. Didn't your students trust you to know your subject implicitly? Didn't your students wish to do well, which made them vulnerable to a curriculum. A curriculum with an agenda based upon opinion and not fact is not ethical in my book. There is obviously a debate here, albeit a lop-sided one, but I'd be a pissed parent if this were one of my kids. Banning activities based on emotion, straw men and perceive threats is a style of politics today. That is what they are learning. I've begged to be swayed. The OP claims to have lots of info. All I've seen is some old news about farming around Seneca

I'm not claiming to know it all. I can look at the data that exists for the eastern basin of Ontario and understand the perch population is stable. I can read a scientific report from years ago that showed causation from cormorant predation on yearling perch, subsequent egg oiling efforts allowing a rebound in that age class. I can rally around good data. Rather than call for a statewide ban on hook and line selling, why not rally for Seneca Lake science projects?

Yes, (most, not all) from my experience.

Where I sold perch they were inspected. The routine is like restaurants, a type of surprise we are here to look around for violations. It wasn't a scheduled routine (routine was a poor choice of words), because that would defeat the purpose. The place where I sold did cut filets for restaurants so, yes there is a inspection.

Sorry, but you don't need a fishery to crash to monitor fish populations. Where do you come up with this stuff? A proactive plan is understanding baseline data for a body of water over time and like I said earlier, get out to the University's and State to support such science. Don't fear monger with words like 'crash' to rally up emotional support. Like was said before, ad nauseam, selling and buying of fish is regulated and inspected routinely. Good grief. And yes, finally, your last sentence makes sense, the guys who buy and sell fish are incentivized to follow the rules. Holy Moses.

I'm not going to invade the privacy of the folks who make bucks to keep the lights on during the winter or who just sell for the fun of it to keep their excursions feasible and post their names and numbers to keep this from being anecdotal on my end. If you don't see enough of that from a few folks who've accounted that on just this thread, then read harder. There are always going to be some bad eggs. Just like the Sandy Hook incident that spurned the Safe Act. You cannot regulate the lone wolf retard. Has the Safe Act stopped gun violence in NY or just issued more tickets? Have the strictest gun laws that are in nation in Chicago curtailed gun murders? Do you think outlawing activities where the vast majority exercises lawfully works? Or does it just give the state more power? Has the Patriot Act kept you safer or allowed your rights to be infringed? You dont ever give up your rights or privileges, ever. Now I know, you'll say what does that have to do with hook and line fishing. But I plead with you all to present solid info that that is the causation to perch declines before you take away a way a good way of life. For crap's sake, a guy who tries to catch fish inland to make a buck is a dying art, not profession. Attack the state for allowing crap land use practices, subsidies that promote it. Get to the base of the problem and you will see it is a massive promotion of the state for the few to profit or have power. Anyone who roots for the state to fix their state issued grievance is rattling the cage the state put them in the first place. You can be a sheep who yells at the sheep to keep in order and yell to the collie that there is a straggler, or you can be bighorn who busts a hole in the fence and butts heads for freedom. I'm all for scientific based evidence to ensure we practice our efforts properly. Hell, I am a biologist who works and makes policy within this state. I went to school for a long time and I hunt and fish and have a burgeoning family who wishes to see the resources exist for a long time for the traditions i hold dear to endure. I won't see emotional re activity trump science or tradition. It's B>S

Just show me something definitive, that's all I ask. The premise of this post is a statewide ban on hook and line selling of fish.