oh geez i totally forgot about this thread, i sincerely apologize if i offended anyone, i actually posted this originally to give a couple of buddies a bit of grief, but i see it's picking up steam again, I honestly have no ill will against centerpinners, it's an extremely effective way of putting fish in the net, sarcasm and jokes dont come through very well on a keyboard, so all my deepest apologies if anyone took this the wrong way, even though i am a fly fisherman to the end i will never seriously argue the advantages that pinning offers, like i said to each his own, but i will continue to dish out grief to my pinning friends, just not on a website anymore, lol!