Todd in NY

I don't see how it would any different than a price match.

You would think so. But that one employee tried to convince me that those sale items come from a different warehouse, not from the stores. Heck, why would I pay $699 for the 698 SI model when I could've spent another $100 and got a new Helix 9 DI GPS model? Some of these retail places have lost their minds.

Read my post about ball depth, I had 120ft down on the rigger finder says its at 120ft, so we drove towards shore at same speed and the rigger ball did not bump up till I was in 90 ft of water, the ball is like a pendulum wich swings back with the water coming against it, yet the sonar says its 120, well it's not its at 90ft down yet it's 120ft from your transducer. With the smart troll it would tell you the depth because it uses a pressure sensor, which you might have to have 160ft out to get your 120 ft down.

I'm glad you brought this up again, because the ball is in the cone 120ft away from the transducer, but only 90ft below the surface. Just like fish showing up on the screen, we still don't know what part of the cone they swam through or which direction they were going.

Haha, we can't even convince all the fishermen on this site!  Good luck with your wife! Lol.

LMAO! After 23 years together I've become a good liar... I mean convincer... well, sometimes

But you still cant tell where the fish is in the sonar cone

And that's why I need a down speed/temp/depth system.

The hardest part is convincing my wife that I need one

I crank 14's on my unitrolls and that ishard work.

I just got some Penn hand crankers for my 16ft utility semi-v, and I'm going to limit myself to 10 pounders on those  . The owners manual says up to 14lbs. Come to think of it, I have some older 6 or 8lb rigger balls laying around that I might use on lakes that have no current.

If you pick up your rigger ball on the FF and also mark a fish with both marks at the same depth then I would have to say they are the same depth. I can pick up my 16lbs. torpedos in 140 FOW with my FF and have marked fish at the same depth and some fish above them running 2.5 mph at the ball.

 

Granted the rigger counter and depth finder don't agree on depth but they are within 10'.  10' in my experience won't make that much of if a fish will hit. I swear I have hit them in the head with my rigger ball and they still won't take the bait.

I can relate to your last statement. I have dragged my rigger ball through good fish marks and almost never got one to take the bait. Every time I see it I tell my son to keep an eye on the rod tips... and then nothing happens. Change speed, change course, then I get a hit on a shallower dipsy from a fish I didn't see on the FF. I have one word to describe it... Fishology.

The employee that told me there were 4 units in the store, and that they don't honor the web site sales, I asked him where the FF would come from if I purchased it online and had it shipped to the store for the free pick-up. He told me that Gander would ship it from a warehouse at the sale price instead of filling the order with one of the units already on hand. That same employee has given me a line of BS a few times in the past. This Humminbird 698 is the 3rd FF I've bought at the Watertown Gander Mountain in the last 10 months (I've had to outfit 2 boats), and they've all been on sale on the web site, but the store was advertising full price. Being able to use a smart phone to prove that it's not limited to online sales has been a big advantage.

Am I starting to see a trend here...? I don't remember having that problem at any other sporting goods store, to include Dick's.

Thanks Frogger! According to the Humminbird web site, they appear to be keeping only the Helix models, the Onix models, the 500 series and lesser models. So it's just a matter of time before they sell all of their remaining inventory of discontinued 1100, 900, 800 and 600 series fish finders. That's also why I've been keeping an eye on hummingbird sale prices.

I'm posting this because the sale ends tomorrow, and it has a happy ending.

I do a lot of bass fishing with my 16ft Sears row boat, and I've been looking for a fish finder with side imaging and GPS. I found a Humminbird 698ci HD SI on sale on Gander's web site. The sale price was $399, when normal price is $699. The sale was NOT limited to online purchases, so I called the Watertown store to see if they had any in stock. They told me all they had was the display model and that it was $699, not $399. I drove to the store anyway and spent a half hour talking to 2 different employees about the sale price. One guy scanned the FF tag and said there's four units in the store, then went on to tell me that they wouldn't honor the web site price in the store. I then showed him the sale ad on their web site to show him that it is NOT an online sale price. I finally got to talk to the store manager, who found me a boxed FF (the one I went there for) and he gave me the sale price without any fuss at all.

I didn't get the managers name but he was extremely professional and had no problem honoring the sale price. The sale ends January 27th, so if you're in the market for a new FF with side imaging and GPS for a fair price, Gander has them for $399 for one more day.

IMG_0782 (1).JPG     They are in good condition and I am located in Lake Luzerne NY 

I sent you a PM. I got the 2 riggers today. Thanks.

"Debates" like these are the reason I started this thread, and it's why I am buying a down speed/temp/depth system, because I want to take the guess work out of where my baits are running. I like seeing my rigger weight on my FF because I won't have a probe on every rigger. But I will be able to use the rigger with the probe on it to get a better idea of how much the blow back is affecting my rigger depth vs the depth counter.

Todd. The issue is where you measure fish is right under the transducer. The top of the arch is the true depth of the fish (assuming you have a hard return). So even if your ball looks like it's at the same depth as the fish it isn't.

The fish is likely 20 ft or so deeper.

Ok, I see what you are saying. Thanks.

I have the older cannon uni-trolls manuals and run the 16lbs. troutman weights. Fixed 4' booms.

That seems like a lot of weight to crank up by hand. But then again, I'm not as young as I was in the 90's.

I travel down to Syracuse every once in awhile, and all the other custom downrigger weights are made/sold where shipping is involved. I'm shopping around for a streamlined rigger weight in the 10lb range. I'll be in touch with you as spring time nears.

Do they sell these at Fat Nancy's? I thought I saw some of these there a few days ago, or something very similar. I didn't get a real close look at them though. I would need 2 10lb 'ers.

10lb shark downrigger weights in your choice of red, black, clear or no rubberized coating..$25.00 each...pickup or meet only

Do you make these from your own mold?

Your fish finder will not tell you how deep your riggers are. It only tells you how far away the ball is from the transducer. Think of it like this. Take a 12" string and hold the top. Where you pinch it is the transducer. The string should be going straight down due to gravity. Now with your other hand arch the bottom of the string back.  Your FF will say it's 12" deep, as the string is still 12" long and that far from the transducer. But as you pull it back you will see it starts to come off the bottom.  Your FF has no way of telling how far back or off the bottom the ball is, only how far the ball is away from the transducer. 

 

You need a probe to tell you the true depth.

You are correct, and I hope it didn't sound like I was saying that my FF can give me the exact depth of my rigger weight. All I was trying to say is that it allows me to see where my rigger ball is running in relation to any fish I might mark on my FF. It gives me a ballpark idea, which is why I am wanting to buy a down speed/temp/depth system before I hit the lake this spring, so I will know the exact depth/speed/temp at the ball.

I will most likely just stick with my 10lb weights until I upgrade to a new set of riggers, and that won't happen until my old Mag 10A's bite the dust.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Much appreciated! I'd rather deal with blow back than a blown rigger, especially if there's an expensive probe dangling down near the bottom.

X2 I ran Harvey's 12# torpeds last year. I really couldn't hear or tell the differance, I kept an eye out for cracks around the boom area, so far so good. They definatly made a differance with blow back verses the 12# pancake typeWhere

Where's a good place to buy some streamlined 12lb torpedos? I have some older ones in my garage but I don't know how much they weigh. I'm guessing they are 12 or 13lbs.

Thanks Yankee for your post, knowing that a hard core guy like you is putting the smart troll on gives me confidence in the product. I have a very good freind of mine that has a house on association isl. and he has the smart troll. We caught a 3 man ticket of kings that day, while others were struggling including me that's why Lonnie called me to go out with him. Shy of the charter guys I went out with, this was my best day on LakeO, being able to put that bait right in their face was the ticket, up to high or just below them they wouldn't go for it. With the smart troll he was able to put those lures in their face. One thing that amazed me was the differance in hight there was going in the opposite direction, the lures were 12-18ft higher, maybe on a better day that wouldn't matter but that day it did, and at 2.5mph with the GPS on this mile long troll somtimes he had to go over 3.5mph to keep the lure showing 2.3-2.5 and the other way just the opposite going down less than 1mph to 2.5 the same as the lure. If I wouldn't of seen this with my own eyes and a full box I would of never believed it or thought is was that drastic in differance from the lure to the sog. It is a hell of a exspensive gadget, but how many times guys on here said they would give up their sonar before their down speed no matter what brand they had. Come on income tax check!!! LOL!!! My wife would shoot me.

Chas. That link I can't open??

Pap, just type in esgdirect.com. It's right there on their home page.

I had a feeling that the lure speed would change from going against the current to going with the current, but that much difference is a game changer in how the lure moves through the water.

Yankee Troller brought up a good point about how much the dipsy's change depth when making a turn. It'll be interesting to see that as it happens, as well as how much the dipsy speed changes when you change direction.

The cost of the Smart Troll will pay for itself just in terms of putting more fish in the boat vs not having the system and catching fewer fish per trip. 2016 is already shaping up to be a great fishing year for me and I can't wait to get on the water.

My concern with running heavier than 10lb weights is that I'm afraid it might ruin my old Canon Mag 10's (vintage late 1980's). They work fine, a little slow, but that might be their "normal" speed. Blow back is one of the reasons I still keep and use my Lowrance LMS339 fish finder, it uses the 50/200 transducer, which allows me to see my rigger weights on the FF. That FF came with my boat and it works great, so I haven't bothered to replace it. Instead, I added a new Humminbird 859ci DI GPS, and use both units.

I've been in touch with Darrell from Smart Troll and I will buy a system from him before the end of February. I will be buying an extra transducer so that I can mount a transducer on each of my 2 boats, and use the 1 receiver and probes on either boat. I'm looking forward to knowing the exact depth of my riggers AND dipsy divers.

A couple of things on Smart Troll.

 

Firstly you DON'T lose probes on wire and copper!  The probe gets attached on the steel line about 1 or more feet away from the terminal tackle (dipsey, leader, etc).  When there's a break it is almost always on the mono or a knot.  Unless you've put the probe on a compromised steel line (has a kink), it will remain attached to the line even with a break off!  So just make sure you put the probe on a clean wire line!

 

Second, I also have the precision trolling book.  Two issues - the data is for a certain lure speed (2.5 mph) and with a known amount of line out!  We all do different speeds, especially with currents - so this already introduces error.  Second we are dependent on our line counters, which ARE NOT ACCURATE. They are only accurate (sort of) when the reel is full. As you pull off line, one revolution is no longer carrying as much line as the previous, and the counter only works on revolutions.  It's so bad that when the reel is almost empty the counter is saying one foot of line comes off when only 0.4 - 0.5 ft of line actually comes off! That's over 50% error!

 

The only way to know the true depth of your line is to measure it directly. I was suprised how far off all my lines were when I started using Smart Troll. My riggers were 20 ft too high and similarly my wire lines.

 

Some people may say, why do you need all that info. Well, I use the info when I get a bit (what speed, what temp, what depth, what happened to my line when I made that turn) to (a) tune into what the fish want quicker and (b) help me get setup for the next fishing episode. We all know 6 AM - 9AM is the best bite (most days), so why wouldn't you want to use that time as efficiently as possible and put 15 fish in the boat rather than 2 because you spent all morning trying to figure out what the heck will work!

That's a good explanation of how line counters work, both on fishing reels AND riggers. I spent quite a bit of money on my boat last year and couldn't afford to look at a down speed/temp/depth system. I always wondered how deep my riggers and dipsy's really were. So the Smart Troll will be my "big" purchase this year so I can take the guess work out of trolling. I also like to know where the thermocline is because I fish so many different lakes for many different fish species. I know this year will be much more productive than 2015 was.

Todd, I'm out on this deal. Thank you for your consideration. Good luck with your sale or modification which ever you decide.

Thanks, and enjoy your winter!

Rolmops, this is how my transom is shaped. If there was a way to make a temporary raised transom piece for using the 7.5, then take it off for using the 25, that would be great. Any ideas?

If you're willing to trade I have the short shaft parts I would be willing to trade for the long shaft parts.

That's not a bad idea. I'll give Tileman Dan some time to measure his boat, as he is interested in the motor. We have a few more months of winter anyway, and when winter breaks I'll be using my Sea Nymph for browns on Lake O. I've only listed this motor on LOU, and I figured it wouldn't sell till spring time anyway. Thanks for the offers, I'll keep you in mind.