Fat Trout

Any chance this is still for sale

Yes....still for sale.  Sorry for the delayed reply, the ad got buried and I thought I'd get a notification if someone posted but I didn't.  

Thanks FT! I'm always hesitant to use longer leads between my bait and rigger weight due to tangles and a sometimes rippin current, but it makes sense. Do you run spoons without flashers all the time?

I never put a spoon behind a flasher....but you can.   People do....  I just never do.  Flashers are for flies and meat (for me).   To avoid tangles.  Keep the boat going straight when setting and be careful when putting flashers down into a spread.  In a 4 rigger spread I put flashers on the outside riggers.  On the 2 riggers on the same side with one set deeper than the other I try not to switch depths (passing one by the other) without pulling and resetting one.  Depends on your boat width but you see the idea.  

I am still very new to this trolling game, and I have a limited budget, and even less time. My son prefers bass fishing and my wife would rather camp on the boat on some inland lake like Cranberry. I have been out just three times this year on my own boat, and two other trips on a friend's boat. I have yet to catch a fish on my own boat and I have no idea if it is me, my setups or my bad luck.

I have 4 Penn manual riggers on my boat. I usually run just the two riggers on my transom because one has my Sub Troll on it. I also run two dipsy rods to the outside of the riggers. I usually run a flasher/fly on one dipsy and a flasher/spoon on my other dipsy.

When running spoons on the riggers, should I use a flasher on one rigger, both riggers with spoons or none of the riggers with spoons?

Depending on conditions I might run all four riggers and both dipsy rods together.

I use a leader (24-30" long) between my lure and the flasher. Each leader has a swivel on both ends. The only flashers I have are 8" flashers with e-chips from Pro Troll and MS, and a boat load of J plugs.

I set my lines out 5-15ft behind my releases. I don't have meat rigs and I don't have any plans to use meat rigs. I have a good assortment of spoons, flashers (no spin doctors), flies and stick baits. I even have some Hammerhead cowbells and spin-n-glows.

What advice can you give as far as when to use flashers, how many to run, and how much line should be between the lure and the release? Feel free to PM me if you prefer. I feel like I am doing a lot of things correctly, but I'm not getting results. I've been out on some charter boats and the captain's have been very helpful.

Thanks in advance!

Water is crystal clear.   I'd recommend running further back to get away from the hardware.    50' is about my minimum for spoons.  For flasher rigs 15 is my minimum and 30-35 my max.   lots of variables but you aren't going to spook fish more by being away from the rigger cable & balls but you can spook 'em by being too close.  

Thanks! I bought the vexilar Tpod last year.... Its a sweet little unit that uses ur smart phone as a screen. Now Im hooked!! Need something with more than 4 hrs battery life. Total game changer. Cant wait to use a big boy flasher this season!!

I have a Marcum LX5 and for as little as I use it ......I still can't part with it.  Flashers are just so much fun!

wrap the line around the clip.

This.

For my 10 color I have 30 feet of 30# mono between the lead core and braid backing.  I clip my board and / or torpedo diver here.

I don't want cuts either.  But for those saying they won't raise stocking back.  I can at least point to the 1990's when they cut and then later raised the stocking.

BTW, feel free to send some bait east.  Its been hard to come by when I've been out in the Mexico Bay / Nine Mile Pt area.

Re-listed & Photos added

It may not matter a hill of beans, but I was pleased with this recent extended lake flip as my thinking is it will only help to further warm the overall bulk temp of Lake O's water.  In my thinking that could be the first step (along with a decent winter) that may help to put a good kick into next years Alewife numbers.

Not surprising.   It worked for them in the 90's.   And currently there's a higher level of natural reproduction to contend with.

Fished Lake Winnepesaukee one year, trolling live bait during their derby.  We fed out 2 lines 150 back.....the line, the bait...the whole thing was out of the water in a big arc going UP.   Was also able to get a little arc of blue putting my finger close to the hook holder above the grip.   No lightning strikes but boy it was funky and storms were in the area.

Thanks Fat Trout. Good stuff.

Just trying to get a grip on what the hell happened to the fishery in this area since I've been gone.

I see now why all the charter boats I worked on and friends I made have left the area. Sad for me to see following the footsteps of my father who practically raised me fishing the Mexico bay / salmon river area. Thanks again!

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The other big thing that can't be avoided is how the zebra mussels cleared up the lake.  That extra clarity really makes a difference in getting bites!  I hate to be that guy but "I remember when" you couldn't see a downrigger ball after you sent it down 5 feet   lol

So memory service .

George Pataki eliminated sangging in 1995 .

Salmon stocking on the Great Lake Ontario was reduced from 5.3 million ( ny ) to 2.5 ?

OK....google finally did me right.   I was a little low for the 80's and through 1992.   

"Stocking numbers of Chinook salmon in Lake Ontario peaked in 1984 at 4.2 million fish and ranged from 3.2 million to 3.6 million annually from 1984 to 1992. From 1994-1996, stocking ranged from 1.5-1.7 million fish and from 1997-1999 stocking ranged from 2.0-2.2 million fish (Mills 2003)."

Here's the link.  Not a fun chart like I was hoping for but some good info.  I was generally going on memory on stocking #'s and some info found and recalled about 1995-1996 timeframe when the crap hit the fan in Michigan.  2.7 million I found as a quote in something for 1995.

http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/GreatLakes/FactSheet.aspx?NoCache=1%2F10%2F2013+3%3A54%3A45+PM&SpeciesID=920&State=&HUCNumber=4090002

All good info! Could you explain base water flows? Thanks

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Before 1996 the salmon river (main hatchery river) would go down to 50 cubic feet per second of flow....or less during the summer.  During salmon season they would yo-yo it from 1500 cubic feet down to 100....power generation thinking, not actual river management.  Fish would get stranded in the extreme.  In spring / summer fry would get stranded and/or overheated.    In 1996 after some agreements with then Niagra Mohawk (now Brookfield Power). they made adjustments to the equipment to allow for minimum summer base flows of 185cfs in the summer + 3 or 4 weekends where they would bump the river up for kayakers & other users (provided there was enough water in the reservoir).  In addition they had "in season" agreement for 285CFS minimum.  The yo-yo'ing cut back significantly (compared to prior).  The (somewhat) stabilized system allowed for actual natural reproduction....granted, good years vs bad years depending on actual weather conditions but at least there was a chance where before the summer heat and piss trickle nuked whatever managed to survive and hatch.  

I fish the river a fair amount...a few years ago we were getting salmon returns that could be compared as hatchery or natural due to a fin clipping program they did for a few years. I think around 4 years ago it was a really good year but the amazing thing was the endless # of salmon that came in from mid august through mid sept. to the river were 90% unclipped.  Seemed like the early fish were the naturals to some degree.  Either way, it made the "natural" fish very noticable vs the hatchery fish.   

My understanding is that 1.8 million salmon stocked a survival rate of 11-13%= not a lot compared to 90's 5-8 million per year.The cutbacks are supposed because of forage issues.Hmm...... Still seeing and .hearing about lots of bait and no hooks around them. This is only my personal opinion.If the numbers are not there,its hard to catch what's not there .Too bad they're not gobie eaters.lol

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Unfortunately 5-8 million didn't happen in the 90's in NY.   You compared against the 1.8 for NY now so thats what I assume you mean.  I fished then, would have been nice.   2.7 million in 1995.   cut down to just over a million in 1996 after Michigan's first crash.  brought back up later in the 1990's but  not exceeding 2 million.    Base water flows in 1996 started the natural reproduction now estimated at a number equal to 50% of the stocking total.  

With the exception of the fact that the Salmon river is where the hatchery is (drawing the late summer / fall kings)......Mexico Bay has always been and will always be a crap shoot with a lot of head scratching on where the fish are.  

Some springs, the wheel of fortune that are the lake currents deliver a bunch of bait and fish with it in the spring.  Otherwise yeah I give it to the western ports for consistency.  

I'm looking to sell my Uni-Troll 10 STX downrigger.  Its 2 1/2 years old.  Never left outside except when in use as it was on a removable mount, brand new condition.   Has the mounting base and swivel base.  It probably has about 12-15 days on the water.    I just upgraded to an electric.  

$180 shipped.  

Thanks Sea-IV

Where you have yours is where I'm going to move mine, just about where the transom wall meets the gunwale.

 

It sounds like you mounted your rails yourself. Do you happen to know if there are any wires right under the side deck that far back? I can't see up in there and would hate to drill into the anchor light wires which should be the only wires anywhere near there.  

 

Thanks again

The end of the side compartment can be pulled out.  Behind that are a couple of pieces of styrofoam that can be pulled out.  At that point you can reach back.  You'll probably need someone to help from the top while your reaching in.  There are wires on the driver side but you can reach in and keep them out of the way.  Its a **** I'm not gonna lie....but its doable.  Just be prepared for some cursing.

Well your in luck.  I have the same boat and put rails on the back.  Mine are Cisco but same thing really.   My rails are way shorter than yours....24" I think.  I also have them mounted further back.  Far enough back that most or all of the rail is behind where the side compartment door is.  Looking at your picture and your rail setup....thats your problem I think.  You have long rails and the downrigger is in the area where the compartment door is.  that makes the whole thing less stable right there.   Attached is a pick I had on my phone.  You can see the downriggers and a rod holder just  behind the downriggers.  I've run them with 12 and 16# balls like you see there with no flex issues. I also have large fender washers underneath. I'll bet you can still have the long rails.  Just put the riggers toward the very back and not up the side.

I hope this helps.  

I've been fishing out of  Mexico for a Looong time.    It has always been spotty compared to the rest of the lake.   Some years better than others.    Reasons are various and many already mentioned.    Primary thing it has going for it is the salmon river and staging fish coming into the bay.  

I'll check the voltage....I kinda figured it was something like that because they both started acting up. There are 2 on my boat. The one didn't work worth a **** the other would be ok until about 60ft then it'd start acting up bad. Thanks I'll keep you updated

I don't know how you are connected to your battery.  But check for corrosion at any ring terminals on the battery.  A little sandpaper might fix you up.  Also on the quick connects between downrigger and power source (assuming you have those 2 prong connections).  

Could be a loose terminal too.  Had that with my truck once.  made things haywire.

Its too bat that a lot of people don't understand that If you're running > 300 behind your boat there is a responsibility that is on you too as an operator.   Pick your conditions for running the big stuff and understand the risks.  

i have the terrova 80 with the 72" shaft.....love it!

The numbers are just a perspective to show how charter take represents a very small part of the pie.  Disease, predation (think about all the hungry Coho, Lakers and Browns waiting for the fingerlings to come out of their port of dispersal every spring !!!!), natural disasters such as floods or droughts, lampreys etc. etc.

I just have to respectfully add that that the "cooler take" recreational and charter is taking from a smaller percentage which are those fish who passed all of the predation and other issues and became viable to catch and keep.   Not 70,000 out of millions but something smaller.  

I remember a thread on here a few months back, perhaps last fall where there was a pounding focus on tributary impact with browns.  Lake guys pointing out the trib impact.  

These numbers are what keep us guessing.   Be it browns, kings, steelies or lakers, dead fish don't get caught again.   I think everyone can agree on that

I agree....everything is a cycle.    No selling here.....I'm back in with a new boat this year after 3-4 years off after my father passed.  I river fish but I love the lake.  

700 kings X 100 charter captains = 70,000  (catching/keeping 2 and 3 yr olds) = 70,000 kings out of 3.5 million stocked + 5 million naturals? x 2 year classes= 17 million salmon available, which translates to charter captain's take of approx 4% of available 2 and 3 year olds swimming around (in a vacuum).  Check my math but I don't think Charter take is the issue......we are missing MILLIONS of salmon

Yeah I hear you  but we all know only a fraction become adults.   Fishing the salmon river I'm fishing the primary return stream.  There just aren't  millions of salmon going  up that sucker.....not even a half mil....I can assure you of that.  Jeeze last year they were having a hard time getting the 2K hens they needed at the hachery to fill quota. 

Just to clarify too...I really wasn't trying to make it a charter comment.  Only that there are a lot of perspectives.  Your math helps too but as you're saying, where the heck are they going.