Lucky13

These are the kind of numbers that need to be communicated to the Judges who think fishing violations are harmless and not worth their time.  This is big business, and in past years competing gangs of Russians were known to exchange rounds down on the Genny, only a matter of time before some innocent fisherperson gets injured from this manure!

I have heard that the local JP's in Oswego County have been maximizing revenue when errant "anglers" are brought their way this year.  On the other hand, you can pay a lot of $500 fines and buy a lot of new Ugly Sticks for 14K a night!

Getting "new eggs" from outside of New York is likely impossible at this point because of all the disease transfer concerns.  You also have to consider whether BC wants to take away from the Skeena Race to provide eggs to a "competing" entity, and whether Alaska would let Kenai eggs go considering allt he problems they have been having on that river.  Then, of course, there are the Fish Community Objectives that govern the mix of fish stocked in the lake, and the contingent of Stakeholders that would like to see the current mix of exotics go away and the native species restored.  I don't think you are going to see any of this, but, of course, fantasy is always fun!   

Here is the USACE page on this project.  It was justified and funded under a habitat improvement authority in the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative.  While there was a lot of discussion in the early phases of the project about the desirability of a navigation project, there was no budget authority for that kind of construction that did not require a significant local match to the Federal dollars (No state or local money except time and some post project monitoring has been required under the GLRI funding), and that kind of funding was not available at the time either in the County budget or in the Town of Greece.   The channel at the east end of the project was added to the design as "insurance" to allow for alleviation if there is a buildup of nutrients in the Buttonwood portion of the bay.  The Town agreed to take that on if the headlands breakwall were pre-configured to allow for easy excavation.  The development of the project took over three years, with many designs considered, and the cost of the alternatives considered.  I have heard nothing about the plans for the marina other than the Danielle involvement, but it is possible that another entity like the town could pursue funding and permitting for expansion of the project to included some better channel for navigation, and this much of a breakwall is in place for its habitat benefits , so that portion of funds will not have to be found.  I want to emphasize that this was a very public process, with the Braddock Bay FWMA Advisory Committee, the towns (Greece and Parma), the County and the State, all participating along with USACE, USEPA, and USF+WS in developing the plan, and then two heavily attended Public meetings held to get input from the public, with nearly unanimous support received from the public attending the meetings or submitting comments afterward.  Also involved was Dr. Doug Wilcox, who retired from USGS Great Lakes Center where he was an expert in coastal processes and wetlands, and who is currently teaching at SUNY at Brockport. 

http://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/Missions/Civil-Works/District-Projects/Braddock-Bay/

I think recruitment in the GR is limited by temperatures as well as lack of suitable habitat.

Streams in the native range of Pacific salmon are nutrient (nitrogen compounds and phosphorus compounds) poor, and the salmon carcass is the major source of nutrients feeding the phytoplankton, zooplankton and invertebrates necessary for the young salmon to survive.  This is not the case with most of the tributaries to Lake Ontario (it is possible that the east end streams are somewhat nutrient deficient as they mainly originate in forested areas of the Tug Hill), these are receiving overloads of nutrients from agriculture and urban development, so the salmon carcasses only add to problems, especially in the embayments and estuaries, and the nearshore, where the "big nutrient flush" of Spring runoff gets trapped by the thermal bar.

It would be really helpful if a lot of this got communicated to Steve LePan and Fran Verdoliva, it really does sound like a large contingent of supporters and legal users of the fishery are being driven from the streams by the lawbreakers.

DEC announced today that the Chinook egg collection is completed, and they will be starting cohos next week.  And they opened the Lower Fly Zone, just in time for the river to completely blow out with all the rain.

DEC ENCON has done numerous "sting" operations at the Genny over the years.  I called in the Russian night netting last year; Web Pearsall later told me that they were having problems all over the state with night time activity last year as there were so few fish returning anywhere.  In the City, tickets have consistently been thrown out by judges, as stated by others, because fishing violations "do not count."  What needs to happen there is organized opposition to the re-election of the magistrates who dismiss the charges.  It has to be extremely frustrating for an officer or team to work to generate over 100 citations and then see all summarily dismissed.  You will not see arrests at the bottom on the Maplewood side, they work with a spotter on the bridge and make the pinches at the top of the hill, so the fish have already been carried out.

And if this is bad, what about the shyt show in Pulaski this fall, where half the town prostitutes their resource to the out of state liners and lifters for the quick bux, and many legit resident anglers have just up and quit going because it has degenerated to such a zoo again.  And now that we've had some rain, you'll see the same thing at Sandy, Maxwell, all along the lake.  But it is very gratifying to hear some of the opposition talk from the Charter industry, 20 years ago the captains would not have given a hoot about Ditch activity. 

Last year, the meth heads in Altmar were using hook and line to snake the donations for parking out of the slot box at the church up the hill form the LFZ.  It is almost as likely that you will get robbed up there as down at Seth Green anymore. 

I was at the Greece meeting, and could not get a word in edgewise.  I have also been part of the GLFC panel that met in the Spring in Niagara Falls, and has participated in 2 conference calls since then.  On those calls it has been necessary for the facilitator to poll the panel individually for statements to maintain order.  If you had an open line conference, pandemonium would ensue.  I think the poor turnout may be partially due to less than stellar promotion of the meetings, although the meeting was announced through MCFAB, and only two members of MCFAB were present, along with the MCFAB staff.  There may also be a feeling that the decision has already been made, and maybe it has, although as Steve says, it has to be brought up through management now before being implemented.  This has been in serious discussion for a long time now, it is not some overnight decision.  I think it is too early to make a judgment on fall returns as the temperatures in most of the tributaries have remained above what Bill Abraham called the " thermal barrier" level until just the last couple of days.  But the anecdotal reports I am seeing from the Salmon River have included fish running for three weeks, and for at least a week there have been fish reported from the Oswego.  According to Dave Agness, a large run went up the Genesee on Tuesday.  So this phase is just kicking off.  It appears that there has not been the " milling around" off the piers at night this year, but we had prolonged elevated temperatures, so the fish may have "staged" offshore.  And as to this year's hatch, lets see what is out there in the spring, after the winter so many are convinced will be mild.  I tried to get a crystal ball for my job for years, but never found one that worked!

From my perspective, no one, Steve or Andy, or anyone else, wants to make cuts in stocking numbers.  But the two bad winters have produced a "hole" in the alewife population.  There is a very real risk that heavy predation as those years move up in age could result in a deficit in future alewife productivity (few spawners equals few fish produced), and Steve and Andy feel these relatively conservative cuts mitigate some of that risk.  One possible alternative that could result from doing nothing is a continued downward trend in alewife productivity, and a deterioration in condition of  the remaining predators.  The ultimate result of that scenario would be Lake Huron, where the biologists have concluded that the "exotics" fishery is done as  the alewife has been eradicated, or a fishery like Michigan's where the kings are all 6-8 lb cookie cutters.  But I also guarantee that if the alewife collapses, many of the other stakeholders will weigh in for abandonment of the exotics program in Lake Ontario.  The Nature Conservancy was represented at the meeting in Greece the other night, and I know scientists at EPA involved with the Lakewide Action and Management Plan that are watching all this very closely.  Please also remember that Lake Ontario is an International water body, so the Federal and Canadian viewpoints also carry  lot of weight out there.

I am in line with many of the Canadians on the panel who thought the proposal would be much higher , something like 50% across the board, but the panel was assured by Steve and Andy on the last call that they are confident that the Alewife population will maintain with this modest cut. 

 Yes & I'm the nicer one of the two owners!LOL.

Gill-T must not have kids and watch SpongeBob!  Great name for a ship!

Tom,

Me and you may not agree on a lot of things. But You attend meetings, You use social engines CONSTANTLY and you express your experiences and question the people and science always.

I believe you put in as much time and effort as I do, If not more......

 

 

With that said we need to come up with recommendations the majority of us can agree to moving forward.

 

I also forgot to list the Pen rearing data, were we can increase our pen holdings up to %75 now (up from %50) in return for less direct stocked fish at each site (2 to 1 ratio on that exchange) ALL current pen fish up to the current %50 are Grandfathered in.

 

Tom,  Please check into the Hatchery water reservoir being EXTREMELY low. I do believe the DEC was thrown a curve ball  VERY LATE in the game---YESTERDAY on this one by Brookfield energy(?) 

 

Again , All the non existent turn out at these meetings I attended USA & CANADA is unbelievable to the people who did attend

 

You kind of stood out at the east end meeting I heard...... GOOD FOR YOU.

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

 

 

Brian:  as soon as the current lake trout abundance numbers start appearing, I will update. Currently we are up last 7 years from the near record low numbers ever recorded since 1980 and  2006-2007. But last year was the 1st year they started a decline.

I saw a friend who was in Redfield last week last Sunday, and he told me that the mudflats were showing up there, that is pretty close to just the river channel having water.  Brookfield is new to the management game, and the drought hit the Tug Hill very hard.  Back in July when the North branch should have been carrying 40 cfs to the Reservoir, it was running at 5!  They could run out of water to the River, not the hatchery.

I think it also needs to be said that no numbers of fish or species have been specifically mentioned by Steve or Andy on the calls, except I have heard some indication that Cohos and Browns do not enter into the equation like Kings, Steelhead, and Lakers.  There is a huge risk that if current numbers of benthic and pelagic predators are maintained, and the two year classes missing effect a "crash,"  there will be no management action that could be taken to restore Kings or alewifes, and we could be left where it appears Lake Huron is, with no need for exotic species to control alewife and a recovering native fishery that will probably require the reminder of our lifetimes to start to exhibit some quality.