Lucky13

Adam Choduck from Channel 8 went up to Montreal, was interviewed on Bob Lonsberry last hour.  He spoke with two Board of Control members, one was Frank Sciramammano.   They reiterated that the current situation was caused by the rains.  According to his reports, there is currently no downstream capacity, in some areas of Montreal water is 4 or more feet deep in the roads. Frank did say that "dewatering" the lake is problematic under 2014, as they need a unanimous vote of the board.  There may be a detailed report on Channel 8 news later.   The predictions in the USACE chart I posted the link for indicate high water into late summer or early fall.

http://w3.lre.usace.army.mil/hh/ForecastData/DailyLevelsEnglish.pdf

They were staying pretty close to 2016 levels until the April rains.  Flooding is an issue all over the place this year, Black Creek,  Oatka Creek, and Irondequoit Creek  were all out of bank on Saturday into Sunday. we really need a dry spell for a while.

1 hour ago, RUNNIN REBEL said:

"Lake Ontario St. Lawrence River Plan 2014"

"Protecting against extreme water levels, restoring wetlands and preparing for climate change"

"The International Joint Commission, after 14 years of scientific study and public engagement, advances Plan 2014 as the preferred option for regulating Lake Ontario-St. Lawrence River water levels and flows."

 

"Plan 2014 is designed to provide for more natural variations of water levels of Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River that are needed to restore ecosystem health. It will continue to moderate extreme high and low levels, better maintain system-wide levels for navigation, frequently extend the recreational boating season and slightly increase hydropower production. More year-to-year variation in water levels improves coastal health."

The plan also allows "triggers" that would allow the International Joint Commission to take emergency actions in the event of high or low water conditions". WHERE IS THE EMERGENCY ACTION YET ? WE JUST TIED AND BROKEN THE ALL TIME RECORD LAKE LEVEL ........

"Plan 2014 supporters say the current plan has resulted in stability in lake levels BINGO-YATZEE-HOME RUN STATEMENT THERE.., but has resulted in an "unhealthy lake," adversely affecting the lake's 63,000 acres of surrounding wetlands. They note the absence of variable highs and lows have killed off certain native plants in the wetlands, causing congested "confields" of cattails with little or no open water.

They say that numbers of ducks, terns and muskrats have decreased and that many spawning areas for northern pike have disappeared.

The plan has been endorsed by environmentalist and outdoors sportsmen's groups alike, including the Nature Conservancy, New York Audubon, the New York State Conservation Council and Ducks Unlimited. 

Jim Howe, executive director of the Central and Western New York Chapters of the Nature Conservancy, described Plan 2014 as "a once-in-a-generation opportunity to restore the health of a great lake." The plan represents the largest wetlands restoration effort in the United States outside of the Florida Everglades.

Critics of Plan 2014 - including numerous municipalities along the lake, fearful property owners and some businesses along the lake's south shore from Oswego to Niagara - favored keeping the current plan in place. They scoffed at the idea of putting "muskrats and cattails above property values." They said the plan will result in unacceptable highs and lows that cause erosion from high waters to dried up dock slips and shorelines.

In addition, they say the estimated $2.3 million in annual negative impacts projected by the plan was grossly under-estimated - adding the plan contains no promises or built-in provisions for more federal or state aid to deal with problems it might cause. IJC officials confirmed that today, saying money for such problems would have to come from state or federal governments.

Jack Steincamp, of Sodus, founder of LORA (Lake Ontario Riparian Alliance)," a group that pushed for keeping the status quo, said many have "no clue what an extra foot or lack of a foot means to the people living along the lake's shore or doing business in its marinas and harbors

Any thing with IJC (International joint Commission) on it is from same people who studied this for actually 16 years at a cost of  OVER $20 MILLION DOLLARS........Plus no funding was set aside as per signed treaty.  Every south shore Riparian meeting I attended  was filled with Environmentalist wording---"Climate change" -more natural water release" -Flooding and low water cycles helps the bays and ponds, Then Government officials back that up with "slight increase in $$$$ generating hydropower.--Extending boating season===== That is how this 2014 plan helped get us to this point, by not releasing water last may/June and forward.. 

 

 

The 2014 plan did not become effective on LO until 1/1/2017, last summer they were still working with 58 d.  And the lake was extremely low last fall, USACE was unable to complete their work in Braddocks then due to low water making it impossible to get their dredge in.

I agree about funding for compensation, many years ago Don Zelazny, the Great Lakes Coordinator for NYSDEC, spoke to the need for mitigation for damages in any plan put forward, but somehow that escaped the attention of the Feds.  But even Frank Sciremammano, who heads the Control Board and has been a vocal critic of Plan 2014 has indicated that which plan makes no difference in this discussion, this is caused by the extraordinary rains of early April.  

http://ijc.org/greatlakesconnection/en/2017/04/lake-ontario-st-lawrence-river-levels-rise-following-april-rains/

44 minutes ago, jlogger said:

I don't think they can actually "enforce" it unless a state of emergency has been declared. I heard the deputies at the marine unit on the river describe it as a request/recommendation for right now. Looking at the water though, Mayer's gas pump is in water etc, it seems like it should be enforceable.

You can be held liable for any damage that can be attributed to your wake, so it makes sense to keep it very slow.  I've heard reports that the bluffs on the Webster side have been sloughing off, send a big wall of water into German Village and you might draw some attention from the homeowners.

Most of the brook trout habitat in Western NY is posted.  Occasionally a wild brookie drops down as far as Powder Mill Park on Irondequoit Creek, and there are a few fish in Spring Brook in Mumford.  Both of those streams predominately support introduced Brown Trout, with the brookies being few and far between.  Many of the tributaries to the Finger Lakes have some brook trout in the headwaters, again few and far between, but if you like hiking to fish, High Tor has some ponds and the headwaters of Naples Creek feeders.  There are a couple of public access points to the upper Cohocton, and knocking on a door for permission might get you some additional access.  For solid fishing to a lot of fish, you need to travel to the Tug Hill Plateau, where the fish are common, if small, or the Adirondacks.  The best fish in the 'dacks are generally found in the ponds, but there is some decent stream fishing especially along the north slope.  DEC Webite for Lewis, Oswego, Oneida,  Herkimer, Hamilton, Essex, and St Lawrence Counties for starters. 

From the Corps:

"The contractors are placing stone to construct the low sill for the new emergent wetland located off the central marsh. Once they finish placing the stone, they will fill it with dredge material to bring it up to a suitable elevation.  They are also working a bit on filling the barrier beach with sand, but are taking it slow with the high water levels, trying to buy  some time for water level to drop. "
 

5 minutes ago, muskiedreams said:

I was wondering if there anything that can be done to limit the flow from the upper lakes into Lake Ontario but I haven't seen it mentioned at all.

 

Hope we get a break from all the rain.

No spigot on the Niagara River!

Take that advice seriously, this lake can switch around VERY quickly.

19 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

We got our fish at Sandy but due to water temps, we held them for six days. Fish deliveries on the West end were way too late. The oak direct stocked just like the Genny.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

Thanks for correcting me.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2017/05/06/montreal-canada-flooding-rochester-lake-ontario-st-lawrence-dam/101279100/

I have been told that Rochester could not get the fish early enough for the imprinting to occur, so the pens were pulled and the fish were/are being direct stocked to the river.  This is  a shame considering the hard work of the Genesee Charter guys.  I have also heard the same for Sandy Creek but only as scuttlebutt, while I saw an e-mail from Dream Catcher about the Genesee Pens.

Infrastructure gets built on the basis of a cost benefit analysis.   If you need a bridge over a river and the population density in the area is very low, therefore few users, the bridge probably won't get built (except in Alaska!)  Wastewater facilities are normally sized to handle up to a 10 year return frequency event, after which some portion of the waste gets discharged.  Costs rise astronomically as the actual use of the facility goes way down above the 10 year event.  This is complicated, however, by the changes in frequency and intensity of rainfall events which is attributed by many scientists to climate change (whatever the cause, it has been documented on the Toronto side of the lake by researchers from Guelph, and for Monroe County by William Coon of USGS in Ithaca, among others around the country.)  So a plant like Van Lare was sized for a storm intensity that is getting exceeded more and more frequently, and there are then more discharges to the river.  The problem on Long Pond is some residents hooking basement drain and pump systems to the sanitary sewer and exceeding its capacity in events like this, that is just good old American selfishness (and a violation of Town and county sewer laws.)

True dat.

There is also no such thing as a Sheepshead ( Freshwater Drum) or a Calico or Strawberry Bass (Crappie) and in Maine a Lake Trout is a Togue.  Don't pass up the pickerel on the menu in Ontario, that is what they call walleye.  A lot of local names for fish, if there is a point maybe just stick to the latin.  

My sense of I Bay is that they go through cycles, and there are a lot now, but a few years ago, the catch was mostly yellow perch.

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 0:14 PM, devoknevo said:

Prob a White Perch or a White bass. There are No silver bass in NY.

30 or more years ago, silver bass was the name that most fishers around here used for White Perch.  The bay and the Greece Ponds used to be loaded with them, but as the water has cleaned up, other fish are competing with them more successfully, so they are not as dominant. 

23 hours ago, Chas0218 said:

Very true, It's tough to see all this happening but there isn't much that can be done at this point. I'm hoping this years spawned walleye, pike, pickerl, muskie eggs make it through all this extra water in the tribs otherwise it will be tough fishing a couple years from now. 

Walleyes run up into the tributaries to spawn, they may have been impacted by the high water events, but should have had no trouble getting up the streams and been well protected from the nighttime poachers.  Esocids like northerns spawn in flooded shallows, often meadow areas adjacent to wetlands and water bodies.  High water like this should allow the eggs to hatch and the larval fish to get out into the main flows as the water recedes.  It is years when the shallows flood and then recede before the eggs hatch that have a negative impact on Pike.  It does not look like that will be problem this year.

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:34 AM, RUNNIN REBEL said:

Town of Greece has been  pumping partially treated sewage into long pond ( Monday& Tuesday)

"It blew those off because the pressure was so great, and sewage was pouring out into the street. We were pumping the street with a half-dozen pumps for three or four days. We weren't keeping up. It got to a dangerous level last night."

The sewer was overwhelming the town pump station, and the fear was sewage would back up into basements, creating a contamination disaster. So town officials began relieving the pressure by pumping the excess sewage through a chlorinator to kill pathogens and then into nearby Long Pond."

 

  Monroe county has released 3.4 MILLION gallons of storm water & UNTREATED SEWAGE into the Genesee River also on Monday

"Monroe County released 3.4 million gallons of stormwater and untreated sewage into the Genesee River about 6:30 p.m. Monday after the rainfall filled available storage"

 

And again the outflows at the dam was reduced yet again. Under the new 2014 plan nothing has to be done to reduce lake levels anymore " a slower natural release of lake water is the preferred method now under 2014 plan", the old 1953 D plan had a binding Must response.

The National guard is in Hamlin now filling sand bags with a sand bag machine till this Friday. Wonder how much all the shoreline town taxes will go up with such an upcoming of lake shore property devaluation happening.

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

The problems with the Edgemere Drive Pump station have been going on for years, this is an example of some of the neighborhood deciding to bag the sewer use law and hook up sump pumps and gutter drains  to the sewer, which uses up capacity when there are storms like we've been having.   That good old American "my basement is better than your basement so I get to ignore the law."  The remedy would be for the Town to inspect all the homes and get rid of these cross connections, but that would not be politically popular.

Pure Waters generally discharges to the river when storms exceed 10 year return frequency, and  over an inch of rain in 45 minutes is an event we fortunately only see once in a great while.  I am surprised that the discharge was only 3.4 million gallons.  Before the CSOAP tunnels were built, it would have all gone to the river.   The manager of collection usually send out a note to the effect that the discharge is later in the storm and heavily diluted, but this one was so fast who knows what part went to the plant and what part to the river

At least you don't have to worry that you look line a popping bug to a shark, like the guys who are taking them way offshore in the ocean!

AS reported by NYSDEC biologists, the generalized pattern is west end early and then a  gradual shift to the east end as spawning time approaches.  As to numbers, the 2106 report documents the drop off in  BT and RT numbers both in the lake fishery and in the tribs.  But they also indicate that the numbers are whole lake averages, and quality may be much better or worse depending opn where you are.

"During 2016, there were time periods and locations of both excellent and poor fishing quality. The four most
sought after species are Chinook salmon, brown trout, rainbow trout, and coho salmon, and regulations allow
a daily harvest limit of “3 in any combination” of these four species. In 2016, charter boat fishing quality (catch
rate=number of fish caught per hour of angling) for these four species combined increased 21% from 2015
(Figure 2).
• The best Chinook salmon fishing quality among charter boats occurred during 2003-2016. Fishing quality in
2016 was similar to the 2003-2016 average, primarily due to relatively good fishing in the West Region during
May through August, and during July for all regions. Angler reports of poor Chinook fishing quality during
portions of the 2016 fishing season and/or in specific areas were confirmed by survey results.
• Fishing quality for brown trout was near record high levels in recent years, however, for a second consecutive
year, fishing quality in 2016 was among the lowest recorded and 16% below the long-term average.
• Coho salmon fishing quality in 2015 and 2016 was well below the long-term average (-57% and -70%,
respectively).
• Rainbow trout fishing quality was at record high levels each year 2008-2014; however, fishing quality declined
markedly during 2015 and 2016. The 2016 catch rate was 25% below the long term average.
• Lake trout fishing quality improved each year (2008-2013) from the 2007 record low, and has remained
relatively stable since."
.

Thankfully, your flouro is snapping.  We don't need the rivers clogged up with nearly indestructible braid.   Has no place in steelhead fishing, you'll realize that when you find someone else's with your waders, and feel that sudden cold dampness coming on.  

I agree on straight mono, 10 lb, for casting spoons, I think it is highly unlikely that a fish that sees the spoon as an edible living thing to chow on is going to notice the line.

14 hours ago, Capt Vince Pierleoni said:

C'mon Lucky,  "exotics"? It's tough to be objective when thats the term you use around here. Lets call them "the remedy".  NO progress happened without the foresight of some great managers here in NY and in Michigan. They will continue to be the answer, no matter where your heart lies.

To your point, Steelhead have been devouring alewives in Lake Ontario for over 40 yrs. Do you have a better theory? 

Any introduced species is " exotic" to an ecosystem, if it is perceived negatively it is generally referred to as "invasive."  

Maybe I am reading your point wrong, but what I believe you said was "The single biggest suppressor of young alewife is the older larger alewife. "  If this were the case, the large alewife that existed prior to the stocking of pacific species should have controlled, and even possibly crashed, their own population in the nearly large predator free environment that existed then.  And history says that did not happen.  

I'm certainly not faulting the managers in LO, and was much less willing to risk the possible ecosystem collapse that could happen if there are too many large predators and not enough food for them.

If the steelhead are eating the "large alewife," certainly the kings are, too, and if there is such a surplus of large alewife, I would think we'd be seeing more of those huge kings of the past, but size and condition numbers do not say the salmon are necessarily "overfed." 

Drove Empire Blvd  at the South end of Irondequoit Bay yesterday.  If it goes up much more, that road might need to close.

32 minutes ago, Gill-T said:

 

If that is the case then they owe those ports more fish. We were told they would decrease stocking numbers in favor of putting more fish in pens. 

I know Steve LaPan would love to have that magic wand that instantly creates a couple of million fish that aren't already in the system!  Then he could generate adults, why mess around with little ones!    He could [probably use it to better control the weather, too!

13 hours ago, Capt Vince Pierleoni said:

The single biggest suppressor of young alewife is the older larger alewife. We are currently in a situation where incredible amounts of larger alewife went unscathed. It's a waste of fish flesh, as not only could those alewife been turned into game fish food, more pressure on them would increase hatches of Walleye, Yellow Perch,  and Lake Trout all while increasing fishing opportunity for the highly prized Salmon. Less giant alewives and more young alewives will most certainly take the peaks and valleys out of the charts, but also improve the Steelhead situation as eating those large long lived Alewives certainly increased the thiamanese levels in their diets. 

C'mon Vince, if this were true, why did we need to add exotics from the west coast to chow down the alewives, if the large ones eat up all the small ones?   The large alewifes should have eliminated the young of the year back in the days, and the population should have collapsed. Those of us who are old enough to have seen the real die offs of the 50's and 60's know that was not happening, and back then there was nearly nothing else for the big alewifes to chow on except the small ones, as perch, walleye, and Lake Trout were all at  surpressed levels.  I had heard that you espoused this theory of big alewife as small alewife suppressor,  (sure,any random filter feeding eating machine will get some larval and YOY fish of its own species), but I do not think that dog hunts.

Only making the point that many open water anglers, at least one who has posted on this thread, were also 'offended" that a discussion was had with tributary anglers, and the open water fishery folks were left out.  Here we have a situation that is the opposite, but it is no biggie that it is a closed discussion.  Most of the ditch fishers I know already trust the science, don't need to see the little fish on the decks, hopefully that trust can happen with the open water leadership as well in the future.