Lucky13

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  1. The first thing that is done in wastewater treatment is solids removal. If this were a break in a sewer main, talk of tampons would be justified (solid human waste generally gets broken up by the turbulence in the lateral between the toilet and the street main), but all this material has been grit screened to remove the plastics (and sticks and stones and Hotwheels or whatever else makes it into the pipes down deep) as a first step in treatment. The next step is to hold the material in exposure to bacteria that digest the material further, breaking down relatively complex molecules into more simple ones, and oxidizing a lot of it before it hits Nature and depletes the available oxygen in the receiving body. In this case the problems have been occurring in the Phosphorus removal steps, and aeration, and the solids that are going out with the nutrient stream are produced by microorganisms that are one part of the process, but are out of balance. You should also realize that at FEV, the "normal" treatment limit is ~200 mgd, but after serious rainstorms, flows can go as high as ~650 mgd. The difference in general gets grit screened and chlorinated, but goes out the discharges with no further treatment. These discharges are really not desirable, but the costs to build systems that would treat everything are astronomical. It will be interesting to see what DEC can do to fix the problem. The alternative will be a ban on defecation, I think you can guess how that will work!
  2. They are Federally regulated birds so NYS can at best negotiate a control program, and the courts just threw out the one that was in place, involving egg oiling and harassment. Commercial interests in LA in the past have gotten permits to shoot birds raiding their pens, but New York has not been successful. But you make a good point about the pens the Rochester pens are just west of Irondequoit Bay, which is loaded with shags now, and just east of Braddock Bay, which also sees pretty large numbers. Caledonia managed to keep the birds out of the pens during the bad winters when the mergansers went inland and ate most of the trout in Oatka Creek and Spring Brook, maybe their control method would work on the net pens.
  3. Wait a minute, you guys are the ones saying trib anglers don't help out, but then we'll have to kick in 15 bucks to belong to an organization we may have no commonality with to find out about a publicly funded volunteer opportunity? That dog don't hunt, just sayin'. I think it becomes incumbent on the Genesee Charter Org to get the information out to the general fishing community if they want the additional bodies, or to not bellyache if they end up doing it all themselves.
  4. The Canadians I have spoken with along the SR and the Genny the last couple of years indicate poor steelhead returns up there, as well. As to the meeting at the hatchery, suggestions about regulations changes originated with a small number of the attendees, and there was no drill down to consensus. So those are ideas that were floated, but it should not be read that all attendees saw them as necessary, or doable. I am 90% a tributary angler, and helped out with the pens at Shumway. But no one contacted me in subsequent years, and I see very little in advance of the pens getting filled, and sometimes only see any news after the release.
  5. No question that expenditures need to be reduced, you can't spend money that we don't have to the tune of 10 trillion in 8 years. But it is also necessary to realize that air and water are not free goods, and the costs of cleaning them if they are polluted will have to be borne by someone. And it generally costs 10 x's more to clean them up than to keep them clean to begin with, and the costs of keeping them clean get passed to the consumers of the products that would have created the pollution, rather than to external entities that do not directly benefit from the products.
  6. Steve and Andy have both been very emphatic that they want to see this fishery thrive, in whatever form the majority indicates they want to see it, as determined by the FCO process. Sometimes that means making hard decisions to minimize potential risk of something much worse potentially happening down the road. And the Feds do have a say in the management as well, as it is an international water body. Glad to see that others are seeing their efforts. No cookies because DEC found that the meeting went smoother with no break, worked again this year, we were out around 9 PM! Some of those guys probably had to drive home (Oswego, Cortland, Cape Vincent, Canada?) travel budgets are very tight anymore!
  7. Safety equipment on boat must be US Coast Guard compliant, as it is a federally regulated body of water. http://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=V-DEPT&category=virtual-safety-check You may also want to look at the State page for information on NYS Regs and Invasive species information. https://parks.ny.gov/recreation/boating/
  8. Steve LaPan indicated at the meeting at the hatchery that he would have Jana Lantry work up some data on whether any reduction in creel limit would have any significant impact, but I guess that is not completed as there was no mention of that at the SOL. Rick Hajecki did make a comment the other night on what he saw as a disparity between C+R data from the trib survey and what he observes on west end streams with browns, comments he has also made on this site. I agree with him, the guy who comes from PA and brings four coats so he can maximize his cooler filling is not likely to respond honestly, or at all, to an interviewer from NYSDEC. As to the size, at 21" a fish has not come in to spawn, at 25" it is likely that it had one season in and went back to the lake. It places a premium on Steelhead, gives them the trophy status afforded to Atlantic Salmon. The argument that smaller and released fish will die does not really hold a lot of water because every fish that goes in the box dies, some of the ones released might make it if handled properly. I would also indicate that some of the folks at the hatchery meeting made the regulations suggestions, but there was little or no discussion of these other than Steve outlining the process, and I certainly would not say that there is complete consensus among trib anglers on the proposals.
  9. In case you don't have zoom. Stakeholders State Of The Lake Ontario Tributary Meeting with DEC On February 11, twenty diversified tributary stakeholders consisting of Recreational Anglers, Professional Guides, Lodges, and Tackle, Fly Shop owners met in a focus group discussion with DEC Fishery managers from regions 9,8,7,6, Lake Ontario Section Head Steve LaPan and the Bureau Chief Of Fisheries for New York State, Steve Hurst . Each Stakeholder was given the floor to present their observations on the state of the Lake Ontario Tributaries across the watershed over the past three years. NOTE: There were several Tributary Stakeholder business owners present, and they made it clear, (and in some cases presented in writing) their observations were not only their own, but a collection of observations, thoughts, comments, and discussions they’ve had with thousands of anglers, over the past three tough tributary fishing seasons. DEC presented their results of the 2016 lake wide tributary creel census survey. What will be noticeable reading through the Stakeholder observations of angling success, and the first hand reports from DEC, that the data appears to corroborate the actual experiences from Stakeholders. Stakeholders On Angling Success : Number of Fish (Browns & Steelhead) the last 2 years is way down. Reported on the Salmon River, East and West end of Lake Ontario. On Oak Orchard - 2 years ago you could visable see Thiamine sick Steelhead. Compact run of Steelhead on Oak Orchard even with high water levels. normally ago not like that. There are way less Brown Trout than in the past years on Oak Orchard, Irondequoit, Bear Creek, and Sandy Creek in Rochester. The Douglaston Salmon Run (DSR)/Salmon River section fished better than the rest of the River for Steelhead. More Steelhead resident in the lower section of the river. This unusual because up river the fish are vacant. Are they not moving because they are sick? The numbers of Steelhead in Orwell Brook are way down from previous years. Very few Steelhead in the lower Salmon River as well as Oswego, Genny, and Oak Orchard The lower fly zone on the Salmon River success limited/NO Fish. Folks come and fish every day are catching 1 Steelhead for 2 weeks of fishing effort in the upper section of the Salmon River The King run in September on the Salmon River was terrible. October had a good run of Kings, but was the timing of the run was very condensed. And No steelhead or browns to speak of. Last fall/this winter fishing by swinging flies or fishing egg patterns while wading was not as effective because of the lack of fish. Needed to cover lots of water for Fishing by boat much more effective Lake Ontario Fish runs are later in the season on the Eastern end of Lake Ontario. No early run Steelhead on Eastern End, overall numbers of Steelhead are lower and smaller. Timing of fish are running later at Oak Orchard on the Western end of Lake Ontario also! Anglers Success continued: Overall seeing less fish on Oak Orchard, Smaller fish, and steelhead fight is not on par. Steelhead fight not good. Fish are lethargic on east & west end tributaries of Lake Ontario. The salmon river angler caught more domestic steelhead 12”-14” Numbers of fisherman reduced over the past year on all regions mostly likely due to poorer fishing. Fishing effort on the tributaries has been very high until this year. See DEC Trib Creel Census reports. More Atlantic Salmon are being caught on the West end of the lake at Oak Orchard, Sandy Creek & Irondequoit lately Tributary Ethics and Behavior: There is a lack of keeping & protecting our resources clean. There are fresh fish carcasses lying around. Need to conserve the River Fishing resources on all Tributaries. Especially during the Salmon runs - Poor Fishing etiquette on stream, anglers are not respecting the 1 rod length distance between anglers. No respect for anglers when they have a fish on giving them the “right of way” to land the fish. Crowd behavior much better over the last few years on the (Salmon River) especially noticeable after the salmon runs. LAW Enforcement: Need to have fines for law breakers more painful Need more law enforcement on all tribs. DEC Creel Survey folks help with a presence on the river. But need officers assigned and present on specific Tributaries. Find a way to get Judges to enforce tickets! Even if the DEC needs to have their own “special” court. Need More DEC Enforcement on the Salmon River and surrounding tributaries during Nov 1- Nov 15th. This is prime season for poaching of the Steelhead. Poachers know that the DEC officers are in the woods with hunters and that there is no presence on the rivers. Also should someone call the DEC, the chances of an officer arriving at the scene before the offender leaves is remote. Make Angling laws less complex. Simplify laws. For Chinooks – people can’t tell the difference between a Chinook vs. an Atlantic salmon, or Coho’s vs. a Steelhead. Need better Fish Identification education. Need to impose and enforce Tackle Restrictions on the Tributaries Sept/Oct timeframe. Business impacts: Social Media the last 3-4 years can make or break your business traffic. The overall impression of fisherman is based on pictures on their phones. Overall impressions “There are no fish”. In the past 21 years of being in business this was the worst Nov/Dec ’16 ever seen. Over the last 40 years, this is the least number of Steelhead ever seen, and when you do see one they don’t have the fight/energy of a steelhead. Guides are seeing fewer consecutive day’s being booked for fishing trips by clients because of the lower number of fish. More cancelations of lodging in 2014-2016, then ever experienced before. Stakeholders Thoughts On Regulation Changes: Want more catch & release regulations for Steelhead on the Tributaries. Request to lower the steelhead limit on Lake Ontario Closure of trout fishing on Orwell Brook Need better access on the Oswego River. Access on the water limited. Steelhead Brown Trout and Atlantic Salmon– would like a “No Kill” for Sept/Oct on the Salmon River. Access – we need more public access rights on the Tributaries. Streams are too crowded. Need to enforce/share the 1 Steelhead limit on Lake Ontario & Tributaries. It should be the same for both. Need for more fish limits. Need to increase the size of Steelhead catch limit from 21” to 25”. It’s important to have them return to spawn for 1 cycle in the Tributaries Need to impose a 1 Brown Trout Limit. Salmon River, Oak Orchard, & other Tributaries. There are significantly less Browns than 15 years ago. Need for more fish limits. Salmon River and Other Tributaries needs more “Catch & Release” areas. Need Catch and Release regulations for Atlantic salmon across the board on all Lake Ontario Tributaries.
  10. It is somewhat discouraging to read something like this (stress the importance of kings specifically) after attending the Summer meeting in Greece that was attended by maybe 10 people and specifically detailed the alewife situation, and after seeing the effort NYSDEC has put in to get this information, and the Fish Community Objectives, out to the general public. DEC and OMNR are only responding to what was generated a few years back with input from stakeholders at the annual State of the Lake Meetings. If you have not read this document, please do so so that you understand what guides policy out on the Lake. This will also come up for discussion again in a few years, as it is done on a 10 year cycle. http://www.glfc.org/lakecom/loc/LO-FCO-2013-Final.pdf. It is also discouraging to read all the doubters and naysayers who do not trust the science. The basic logic is that if you drop a net on a transect repeatedly over time you get a representation of the relative density of the alewife. Many drops on multiple transects give a greater sense of relative abundance. If there are huge numbers of Alewife, you catch should be higher, if less, lower. You also get to look at condition and size as a measure of health of each year class. What they found after the two bad winters was a hole where the numbers associated with two year classes were extremely low. This does not say there are no fish in those year classes, so a school could get entrapped in an intake or you could hit a bunch of predators that just chowed on a school, but in relation to a "full" lake, there are a lot less. Or we could put more predators in, but understand that the risk then might be a complete collapse in the long run. Also, if we are going to ignore the science, we could change the management and just stock fish without any concern for the word " trophy", and get rid of a lot of this monitoring and save a lot of money, as Andy Todd pointed out last summer. If you missed the meeting last summer, or the print materials that went out with it, please read http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/107705.html
  11. Look at the mess in Lake St Claire between Detroit and Windsor pouring into the west end along with the Maumee River runoff. Lots of Pollution Control needed down there!
  12. You have a working crystal ball? I've been looking for one for years! http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lou2016hilights.pdf
  13. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphipoda Natural color varies with water chemistry but is olive to grey, like most crustaceans they turn pink to orange when dead. http://www.orvis.com/news/fly-fishing/video-how-to-tie-a-simple-scud-pattern/
  14. Float down from Jellystone Campground?
  15. They will be mostly in, done, and long gone before April 1. To see for yourself, March 23 9:00 AM at Middlesex Rd. Bridge in Naples.